Opium

[Captain Brewster]

^^ busty, space never advocated to take opiates.

His first post in this thread contained a nice warning for people having thoughts of doing so.

 

[Captain Brewster]

But stigma often - i'm just not going to bother. This is going nowhere.

My point is that I don't like the way you speak to me and other members. I don't know how it's reasonable to not allow for sociological factors in discussing drug-related issues when you blatantly insult members.

'But stigma often....' Go on, do please finish this sentence.

 

[Halif]

Stigma has no place here IMHO

Agreed. It simply doesn't bring anything useful to the site.

I always think to myself that it could be worse; I could be shooting up heroin in my dick like so many other people out there, instead of being addicted to something that has nowhere near the same amount of stigma as street opiates bring.

The problem with rationalising substance use in the 'it could be worse' way is that it could always be "better", too. Someone could post that they were satisfied with their 120mg codeine CWE habit because to them it's better than being addicted to something messy and awkward like PST. Someone else could post that they are satisfied with the fact that they don't have any addictions at all.

Basically, that kind of comparison only serves to make someone feel better at the expense of someone else, and is therefore better kept in the mind of the thinker and not posted at all.

Also,

Surely someone who has battled their own demons would advise against going down the same route.

I thought the whole point of this site was to share information about drug use and promote awareness so that people can make their own informed decisions. Telling people what to do/what not to do based on one's personal experience doesn't work. Everyone's different and people will find things out through their own experience. Saying "Trust me, if you do [blah blah], you'll end up in a world of shit so just don't do it" never works.

 

[Nozphexezora]

'But stigma often....' Go on, do please finish this sentence.

Edited.

The problem with rationalising substance use in the 'it could be worse' way is that it could always be "better", too. Someone could post that they were satisfied with their 120mg codeine CWE habit because to them it's better than being addicted to something messy and awkward like PST. Someone else could post that they are satisfied with the fact that they don't have any addictions at all.

I say it could be worse in the sense that I could still be using. I'm on suboxone now and it works quite well - better than I expected. When I was in Brisbane I honestly thought suicide was the only way out, but now I have medical help.

Saying "Trust me, if you do [blah blah], you'll end up in a world of shit so just don't do it" never works.

I agree, but 1K said more than just that. He gave his opinion and just because it outright demonizes habitual recreational use doesn't mean it has no place in the thread.

 

[Captain Brewster]

I never said I believe in stigma. But society carries these ethical principles and societal stigmas; the reason why narcotics are so frowned upon is because of the strong laws against it. An addict is an addict, but a poppy seed tea addict is certainly different from a heroin/street narcotics addict not just because the differences in lifestyle but because the societal and ethical differences between the two. In general people envision an IV heroin addict as a poor, homeless skinny man with needles in his napsack; but the thought of a poppy seed tea addict is just bizarre considering how widely available it is.

I seriously cannot explain it any clearer than that. I never said heroin addicts are bad people, and I never said Poppy seed tea addicts are better people; instead I just stated that society views them as such respectively. It's like looking at two different artworks and saying, "It seems as though people like artwork 1, but they don't like artwork 2. Perhaps because artwork 1 is more familiar than artwork 2."

It doesn't mean I follow that convention. I was, afterall, the one who brought up argumentum ad populum, the fallacy of claiming something to be truthful just because it is the popular belief.

And I don't like the way you speak to me and other members. I don't know how it's reasonable to not allow for sociological factors in discussing drug-related issues when you blatantly insult members without any repercussions.

For someone who says you don't believe in stigma, you seem fairly wound up in it.

If you don't believe in it, then why care about it?

Your views on what someone who shoots up heroin is different from the next bloke.

You, yourself believes there's a difference between a pst addict and another addict that shoots heroin, I don't.

That's stigma.

 

[JeanJM]

^ Imagine if you were prescribed what you were addicted to so you could get on with your life and never have to think about it unless you wanted to be clean? Some might not want to live life addicted to a substance and some will be perfectly happy living life co-dependent with a substance, it's a choice we should be allowed to make.

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ I agree, it's a choice we should be allowed to make.

 

[Nozphexezora]

For someone who says you don't believe in stigma, you seem fairly wound up in it.

If you don't believe in it, then why care about it?

Your views on what someone who shoots up heroin is different from the next bloke.

You, yourself believes there's a difference between a pst addict and another addict that shoots heroin, I don't.

That's stigma.

I only delivered one question, but I'm constantly having to reiterate what I said because you people keep attacking me for it when I'm undeserving. I said I DON'T believe there is a difference; the only difference is that other people view the two differently, which brings me to the original rhetorical question that was mistaken when I said how bizarre it is that a notorious narcotic can be found in something as seemingly friendly as a supermarket. Christ. I can't explain this any clearer. Seriously; I just - I can't. I don't know how you a misinterpreting this and attacking me. I can't believe this shit; I must have explained myself clearly at least 4 times now and you people keep suggesting that I'm a terrible person who judges users. It's fucking insulting.


Since when did you people get on your moral high-horse and tell me that I'm infallibly wrong because I distinguished society's misinformed perspective? I have heard so many people say that society views drug users as negative stereotypes and for whatever reason I'm being consequences for pointing it out. If anything I'm against the stigmatic stereotype, considering I said it's unusual that people view this class of drug so harshly when it's right in front of their eyes. I don't know how whenever I say something it gets interpreted as something offensive or naive or whatever. I didn't say "How is it that I can go down to a shop and get myself addicted without being some Junky FUCK fucking piece of shit HEROIN ADDICT WAHUR!"

For reference, the original rhetorical comment was the following;

How is it that in such a controlled society I can go down to a shop and get whatever I want myself and end up addicted?

The quote above wasn't questioning the validity of People's accounts of PST addiction, but rather expressing how unusual it is that people give contempt for one drug and laugh at at another drug which is ideally similar. If you follow the subsequent conversation you'll find that my post was basically mutilated and turned into something entirely different regardless of my clarification;

I did a very strict taper and got off fucking lightly, but the idea that "I got it down the shops, how could it possibly cause opiate withdrawals?" is frightfully - even frighteningly naive.

I could be shooting up heroin in my dick like so many other people out there, instead of being addicted to something that has nowhere near the same amount of stigma as street opiates bring [and be condemned for it by society]. You misinterpreted my comment about the availability of the seeds; I was trying to express how remarkable it is that you can get narcotics from a simple supermarket. It was a rhetorical question.

It's nothing to brag about, but I don't make snide comments about people "shooting up heroin in (their) dick" either. Some people take pills, some people make poppy tea, some people take drugs intravenously. So what?

So what? My point was that there's a sociological difference between the ROA; just because I pointed it out doesn't mean the differences are necessarily correct.

Do you really think that intravenous injection in the dick is as socially tolerable as drinking a liquid - almost as though social stigma is nonexistent? Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean it ceases to exist.

...I'm just more aware of how stupid some members of this forum can be.
Penis is not a safe injection site; I wasn't referring to injecting there.

Tell me why you think a heroin addict is precisely the same as a poppy seed tea addict? Not only is heroin more potent and converted into different chemicals than morphine and codeine, but the different routes of administration as well as preparation are vastly different. Saying that there's no difference between the two doesn't mean that you're an ethical person who doesn't judge, because it's honest-to-god truth that heroin is chemically different from morphine. What you should have said is "A PST addict and heroin addict are both ideally the same in nature."

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ so you were just pointing out how stigmatised society is?

Well, we all know that.

I'm sure there's people out there who would be more scared of pst's half life than herions half life, therefore they might think pst is the devil and not the later.

 

[Nozphexezora]

^ so you were just pointing out how stigmatised society is?

Well, we all know that.

I'm sure there's people out there who would be more scared of pst's half life than herions half life, therefore they might think pst is the devil and not the later.

I was just expressing how bizarre it is. It just became so detailed in explanation because everybody continuously took what I said as some offensive comment towards IV users, as well as the fact that everybody agreed that even talk of social stigma is unethical like some pseudo-moral fairy who thinks overweight people are "beautiful on the inside" and that negative truth is immoral. The Catholics thought that Science was immoral and negative despite the fields' credibility and it stunted technological growth a hell of a lot.

It's not as if I implied that you didn't know, but I just pointed it out for the sake of conversation in my experience seeing as how it's relevant to OP's post. Everybody knows that opiates can be addictive but that doesn't stop people like OP from making these threads.

 

[spacejunk]

So all of that was for nothing.
Cool.

 

[Nozphexezora]

So all of that was for nothing.
Cool.

Pretty much, yeah. You should have read my clarification when you misinterpreted my rhetorical question.

 

[spacejunk]

Uh...whatever man.

 

[Captain Brewster]

^Heh, he did say this was going nowhere.

Pretty much, yeah. You should have read my clarification when you misinterpreted my rhetorical question.

Nobody misinterpreted your rhetorical question. I was, in a way, questioning your views to what you think stigma means.

 

[Nozphexezora]

Spacejunk misinterpreted it.

 

[spacejunk]

Fucken hell man...and I apologised for doing so.
Let it go.

 

[Nozphexezora]

When did you apologise? 8(

 

[opi8]

Nozphexezora, I shouldn't continue with this - but I've read this from the beginning to end, maybe you should too. It certainly sounds like you are reinforcing this stigma that "other people" have.

Morphine and Diacetylmorphine (heroin) are not as different as you may think.

I won't add any more, because I can see that it will go nowhere, but I like to think - myself - when I post. What if I was in the other person's position, what would they think I mean by what I type. This doesn't apply to Busty, we all know he's a troll.

 

[poledriver]

When did you apologise?

Apologies if I came across as patronising; I read what you wrote literally. But no matter how I read it, there's more than a grain of truth to it.

Maybe that part. ?

 

[Nozphexezora]

Nozphexezora, I shouldn't continue with this - but I've read this from the beginning to end, maybe you should too. It certainly sounds like you are reinforcing this stigma that "other people" have.

Morphine and Diacetylmorphine (heroin) are not as different as you may think.

I won't add any more, because I can see that it will go nowhere, but I like to think - myself - when I post. What if I was in the other person's position, what would they think I mean by what I type. This doesn't apply to Busty, we all know he's a troll.

But they're still different, although they're the same in nature. Besides, heroin users are different in the sense that they buy the drugs from a different manner and use different Route of administrations. I don't see how that can be offensive. It's those differences, however, that make heroin - and even just IV users - so frowned upon by society. When I went to the doctors they didn't believe that I could extract alkaloids from poppy seed tea, and that's one of the reasons why I wasn't put on maintenance right away. I would have to be bat-shit crazy if I were to believe that PST is harmless because of its availability - especially after the incidents with the doctors.

By all means continue it, but don't attack me or insult me intentionally because I'll just figure you're either trying to aggravate me or just being a dipstick.

It's a fallacy of misinterpretation when the reader interprets something falsely and acts on it as such; to some extent it's a straw man. I shouldn't have to be consequenced because you misread something grammatically correct when your perspective was not my intent. You can look it up if you want; it's one of the first things I learned in Ethics.

EDIT:

Maybe that part. ?

Oh okay. I thought he was talking to 1K. See? Spacejunk shouldn't have his apology ignored just because I thought it was towards 1K.


This whole discussion is depressing.