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Opinion - Heroin sucks

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burn out

Bluelighter
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I was actually starting to come to this conclusion on my own near the end of my heroin use when I realized that even hydrocodone was better than heroin in the sense that it allowed me to get nicely high without jacking up my tolerance as bad as heroin does.

Now after spending the past year and a half studying plant medicine and herbalism, experimenting with many entheogenic plants and healing I have come to conclude that heroin sucks.

I recently had the pleasure of smoking opium and the experience was 180 degrees different from heroin. It was entheogenic, healing, soul opening for me. A divine plant, along the order of the magic mushroom or the cannabis. Yes I know its addictive, but that is part of its curriculum, it is designed to teach us about the cycle of pleasure and pain and it could not accomplish this if it only provided pleasure and no pain.

But I digress. Aside from my subjective appreciation for the nuances of the opium high in comparision to the boring, flat high heroin gives I believe there are also less subjective reasons opium is better. For example the ratio of euphoria to dependence potential/opiatedness.

Heroin is too potent. Opiate drugs should be used at the lowest affective dose, in order to minimize dependence. This is possible with opium, as I can take a couple hits and then enjoy a relaxed, mellow and pain free evening. But with heroin, because there no other alkaloids contributing to the effect I presume, the only way to enjoy it is to get super opiated.

I measure the amount of opiated I am by the size of my pupils and the ease of urination. With opium, I can be high as the sky and yet show little to no sign in my pupils and pee fine. With heroin, my pupils pin even from doing the tiniest amount that I dont even feel high from. Even hydrocodone is a better option because you can catch a good buzz off 30 mg of hydrocodone without jacking up your tolerance as much as the evil heroin.

The bottom line is, the opium poppy was meant to be used in its entirety. When you strip out one of the most powerful alkaloids, chemically react it to make it even more potent and shoot it into your vein, you are asking for nothing but trouble. This is how our society has gotten in so much trouble in the first place, lack of respect for and lack of understanding of nature and how to work with nature in order to keep our bodys healthy.

Its like marinol vs cannabis. Any medical marijuana patient will tell you taking a thc pill is no the same as smoking real herb. Its the same with heroin vs opium. Opium gives the real experience, heroin is a bastardization.

If we legalized opium we could virtually eliminate overdoses because its not easy to accidentally smoke too much opium and die. Four of my friends who died of opiate overdoses would probably still be alive.

But alas we live in a society that hates nature and hates even the basic freedom to grow/possess plants.
 
If we legalized opium heroin would be 10x more abundant due to opiums use in creating heroin.
 
This seems like the kind of thing that might be more appropriate as a blog post, or in another subforum...
 
Agreed . To this day I've said hydrocodone is my favorite opiate cause best high itchy nod not sleepy drowsy heroin shit with a bad addiction on top I totally know what you mean
 
But with heroin, because there no other alkaloids contributing to the effect
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Yes most ECPs don't have other alkaloids, However BTH, has numerous, such as 6-mam.

I measure the amount of opiated I am by the size of my pupils and the ease of urination.
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That's how the cops measure how opiated you are, You're supposed to measure it by how good you feel.

Even hydrocodone is a better option because you can catch a good buzz off 30 mg of hydrocodone
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You must have little to no opiate tolerance, if you can catch off of 30mg of hydro.

Its like marinol vs cannabis. Any medical marijuana patient will tell you taking a thc pill is no the same as smoking real herb. Its the same with heroin vs opium. Opium gives the real experience, heroin is a bastardization.
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Your analogy is a bit off, I would liken it to buds vs. extacts or dabs.

If we legalized opium we could virtually eliminate overdoses because its not easy to accidentally smoke too much opium and die.
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I have to disagree with this one. First off, it is fairly easy to OD from smoking opium and even more easy to od from pod tea. And if it were to be legalized, you better believe people would still be acetylating that shit lol..

All that being said, I see where you're coming from and I agree with some of it, but it's not as cut and dry as it may seem..


-Hopeless Soul
 
I think I heard something along the lines of what the OP is talking about from an aged, wizened old hippy once. Something about how Mother Gaia gives humanity everything it needs from the earth maaan, and that's why all man-made drugs are bad? Something like that...hard to remember, we'd both taken lots of acid at the time (ironically enough)
 
Burnt Offerings said:
I think I heard something along the lines of what the OP is talking about from an aged, wizened old hippy once. Something about how Mother Gaia gives humanity everything it needs from the earth maaan, and that's why all man-made drugs are bad? Something like that...hard to remember, we'd both taken lots of acid at the time (ironically enough)
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LOL Don't you love people like that? just because something is sythesized, or altered, doesn't make it from outer space! =)

This seems like the kind of thing that might be more appropriate as a blog post, or in another subforum...
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Agreed. Probably Drug Culture..


-hs
 
That's how the cops measure how opiated you are, You're supposed to measure it by how good you feel.
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small amounts of opium make me feel better than large amounts of heroin. Heroin just makes me fiend for more, than causes horrible withdrawal/rebound so I do even more.

Opium is so sublime and satisfying in comparsion that after a good opium session I dont even want more right away because it feels like too sacred of an experience to repeat frivolously.

As for there being more heroin if opium were legal, that might be so but that's why we need a cultural chance. We need to change opiate culture from give me the most potent thing for my $ so I can put it in my arm and descend into oblivion to how can opium help me to understand myself and appeciate my life and the companionship with my fellow beings better. We need to shift toward being in harmony with nature and allow that to be the goal is getting totally fucked up.

My life has taken a complete turn around since I changed my attitude toward drugs, viewing them as gifts from nature and divine medicines/sacraments with lessons to teach me (and enjoyment also) vs escapes from my shitty life. I still get high I just utilize a different intention. We need to change our drug culture, drugs can be used for positive. When they are used for connecting with other people, celebrating life and its mysteries, spiritual communion and medicine, the effects are very different from when they are used just to escape or just too party.

I believe if we began my giving heroin addicts opium to smoke vs methadone or suboxone, it would help reduce over doses because opium is inherently more satisfying and less abuseable.


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I think I heard something along the lines of what the OP is talking about from an aged, wizened old hippy once. Something about how Mother Gaia gives humanity everything it needs from the earth maaan, and that's why all man-made drugs are bad? Something like that...hard to remember, we'd both taken lots of acid at the time (ironically enough)
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I dont consider all man made drugs to be bad, instead I view everything having positive and negative qualities. I mantain that man made drugs have different qualities compared to natural ones. Usuallly the conbination of alkaloids in a medicinal plant are designed to work together with the human physiology and this is one of the reasons synthetics often make inferior healers.

But I recognize synthetics have the advantage of being able to provide specific effects that can be helpful to people, like MDMA psychotherapy for instance. So I am not at all against the development or use of synthetics, I just think they should be used along side the plants but not in place of the plants like our society has tried to do.

Opium is the best painkiller I hav eever tried. Yet no matter how much pain I am in, I would never be able to receive opium for my condition. No, instead the doctors would insist I use oxy/hydromorphone, morphine, etc. Its like they look down on opium for being a plant, as though it is primitive or crude to use something that came from a plant and hasnt been butchered/extracted/reduced to a pill.
 
burn out said:
When they are used for connecting with other people, celebrating life, and its mysteries, spiritual communion and medicine, the effects are very different from when they are used just to escape or just to party.
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If only it were that simple. You have just named two ends of the spectrum- just to party/escape (i.e. For fun) and to have a spritual experience of some kind (I.e. Self improvement). There are so many reasons in between! Not least of which is out of necessity. I am not trying to disagree with what you are saying, you are far more educated on this than I am, I just always find myself somewhere in the middle on that. Somewhere in the grey area.

I don't mean to sideline the conversation, and I do taken your point, which is very eloquently put - Herion sucks!

- VE
 
but that's why we need a cultural chance. We need to change opiate culture from give me the most potent thing for my $ so I can put it in my arm and descend into oblivion to how can opium help me to understand myself and appeciate my life and the companionship with my fellow beings better. We need to shift toward being in harmony with nature and allow that to be the goal is getting totally fucked up.

My life has taken a complete turn around since I changed my attitude toward drugs, viewing them as gifts from nature and divine medicines/sacraments with lessons to teach me (and enjoyment also) vs escapes from my shitty life. I still get high I just utilize a different intention. We need to change our drug culture, drugs can be used for positive. When they are used for connecting with other people, celebrating life and its mysteries, spiritual communion and medicine, the effects are very different from when they are used just to escape or just too party.
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There's already a subculture for this.
People do drugs for different reasons, you never going to unify everybody into doing them for the 'right' reasons... While I agree with most of your optimistic idiology, that's just it, it's 'optimistic'. Sure you can get that rich kid from the suburbs to buy in, cause he doesn't 'need' to escape, there's some people who have extreme pain, or are going through HARD times, which require HARD drugs to escape the STRUGGLE.. lol it's real for some people!

You're not going to sway the masses, but one of the biggest impacts you can make is to practice those methods for yourself, make sure you're individualy grounded and live by the words in which you speak, then you can lead be example, put most of your energy into how and why YOU practice the art of getting high.


- Hopeless 7nos
 
Well to put it more broadly, I feel like drugs should be used to enhance life rather than to escape it. Exactly what this means can vary to individual to individual. For example, to some people this might mean stuff like drinking ayahuasca in a ceremony with a shaman and fellow explorers who are seeking the same goals of healing, spiritual enlightenment, etc.

To another person, this might not appeal to them but they might find their own ways of using drugs in a way that is constructive to their life vs destructive. Its the intention and expectation that matters.

What I mean is, growing up we were taught that drugs were bad, that they ruin your life, destroy your health, and that they don't lead anywhere good. Even the bluelight philosophy of harm reduction can be seen as an extension of this mindset. Think about it, harm reduction implies that using drugs is harmful, that it would be better if we didn't use drugs but since we can't stop everyone from using drugs we might as well do some damage control or "harm reduction".

So for example, when i approached drugs as a teenager this mindset colored about how I thought about them. If I had been raised to believe for example, that cannabis was a gift from God, given to man for healing and connecting with the divine and that it could be amazingly beneficial when used intelligently or responsibly, I am quite certain I would have approached it with a different and more respectful attitude.

See drug abuse becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. THey tell you a drug is no good and addictive and you believe thats the objective truth about it, so when you use it you become addicted because thats what you feared or expected would happen.

A good example of this is tobacco. Many americans today believe tobacco is bad for you. We view tobacco as a dangerous and highly addictive substance and blame it for hundreds of thousands of death. I am not saying there is no truth in this view, but is that the final and only truth about tobacco? is it an objective fact that tobacco is harmful and deadly or is that simply the reality we have created?

For instance, to the native americans tobacco was not seen this way. It was one of their most sacred plants and it was used for healing, ceremony and enjoyment and they did not have problems with lung cancer from it. Growing up I was taught that tobacco was bad. That means the first time I tried a cigarette I already had it in my mind that I was doing something bad, the fear of addiction, etc. What if we as a cutlrue did not take this attitude? What if we viewed tobacco as a healing plant instead? A healing plant that can be abused but a healing plant none the less.

The reason I think this is significant is because we have had almost zero success in controlling the urge people have to use mind altering substance. So when little Johnny tries a cigarette, if all he knows about cigarettes is that they are bad and make you addicted than what is likely to happen? On the other hand, if we tell Johnny that psychoactive plants are sacred/medicines/tools for self improvement/ehnancers of life than he is much more likely to incorporate tobacco into his life in a healthy manner, to become a shaman or healer himself perhaps or just enjoy tobacco without so much fear and paranoia about dying from it (as our society is terribly paranoid about this inevitable thing called death).
 
7nos-SS373dOH said:
There's already a subculture for this.
People do drugs for different reasons, you never going to unify everybody into doing them for the 'right' reasons... While I agree with most of your optimistic idiology, that's just it, it's 'optimistic'. Sure you can get that rich kid from the suburbs to buy in, cause he doesn't 'need' to escape, there's some people who have extreme pain, or are going through HARD times, which require HARD drugs to escape the STRUGGLE.. lol it's real for some people!

You're not going to sway the masses, but one of the biggest impacts you can make is to practice those methods for yourself, make sure you're individualy grounded and live by the words in which you speak, then you can lead be example, put most of your energy into how and why YOU practice the art of getting high.


- Hopeless 7nos
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If people are in extreme pain, then using a drug like opium to bring relief and allow them some enjoyment in life isn't necessarily the same as mindlessly abusing drugs in my opinion. I have already said that I think opium is entheogenic and you see that is the secret blessing that is bestowed on those who use it even if they are dependent. When doctors only prescribe synthetic painkillrs they are depriving poeple of mother nature's blessing.

True, not everyone will be receptive to opiums lessons but my point is that if we as a society moved toward respecting plant and their medicinal powers instead of just using them to extract chemicals from it would change the world. We need to change our relatonship to nature, we cannot live at war with nature because we are a part of nature so to misunderstand/disrespect nature is to misunderstand disrespect our selves.
 
 
The biggest problem I see with changing drug policy is the fact that peoples minds are colored by emotion, ei a mother loses her son to an overdose so she vote to ban the substance without any rational considerings for the pros and cons of that decision.
 
heroin is the king. Nothing feels better, nothing trumps it. The problem is its illegal and kind of expensive. I haven't smoked opium so i cant comment on that.
 
burn out said:
If people are in extreme pain, then using a drug like opium to bring relief and allow them some enjoyment in life isn't necessarily the same as mindlessly abusing drugs in my opinion. I have already said that I think opium is entheogenic and you see that is the secret blessing that is bestowed on those who use it even if they are dependent. When doctors only prescribe synthetic painkillrs they are depriving poeple of mother nature's blessing.

True, not everyone will be receptive to opiums lessons but my point is that if we as a society moved toward respecting plant and their medicinal powers instead of just using them to extract chemicals from it would change the world. We need to change our relatonship to nature, we cannot live at war with nature because we are a part of nature so to misunderstand/disrespect nature is to misunderstand disrespect our selves.
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While I agree with most of what you're saying, you have to ask yourself, 'Is there any money in this philosophy?' You gotta know what makes the world spin..


-Hopeless 7nos
 
7nos-SS373dOH said:


Uh they do ruin lives, they are harmful, and they kill people..
http://bluelight.org/vb/forums/89-Bluelight-Shrine
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and how many of those death are a result of prohibition and the prohibitionist mindset? how many of the deaths are from natural plant drugs in their natural form? For example like I said, four of my friends died from opioid overdoses since 2011. Most recent one being heroin cut with fentanyl. If we legalized opium a I suggest, he would arguably still be alive. The doses would be knwon instead of guessing.

I bet if you run statistics on drug deaths I bet you find most of the deaths are the result of a) chemical synthetic drugs b) chemicals which are have been extracted from a plant and highly purified so they are no longer in their original form 3) legal pharmaceuticals.

Take cocaine for example, we outlaw coca leaf so now you cant get that. ALl that is available is high power cocaine just like opium not available on the street in USA. We have made it so the safer milder natural plant forms are untobtainable but instead the highly abusable forms are all one can get.

Perhaps if people learned how to enjoy coca leaf and small amounts of opium, they would not want to do so much cocaine. Maybe we as a society could learn how to enhance our lives with plants, rather than destroy them with extracted chemicals. Thats what I am saying, the natural balance of the coca leaf (which has been used for thousands of years and is considered sacred and beneficial by the tribes who use it).

I have found in my own life that I dont actually want to destroy myself with drugs. Our society tells addicts you either destroy yourself with drugs (if you use you will end up dead or in jail no exceptions) or you stop using altogether forever. What a choice to make.

THere is a third option. Its possible to use natural plants in a hamonious and balanced way. Most people just dont know this.
 
DETROIT*edm*JUNKIE said:
heroin is the king. Nothing feels better, nothing trumps it. The problem is its illegal and kind of expensive. I haven't smoked opium so i cant comment on that.
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Well I disagree nothing feels better I have had experience on magic mushrooms and the LSD that were far more blissful than heroin, and opium to has made heroin look pathetic in my eyes. The opium high is so much more elegant, refined, relaxing, deeply intoxicating and yet simulateousnly clear headed, stimulating and beautiful. My friend once told me "heroin is beautiful". this resonated with me because I also felt like I appreciated the heroin high not just because it intoxicated me or killed pain but because there was a sort of magical or mystical element, a beauty in the feeling itself, which I found awe inspiring.

Well opium was way better at reproducing this effect. That rare alice in wonderland esque magic I would experience on rare occasions with heroin has been present every time I smoke opium. Opium is like a trip for me, it takes you straight into the cosmic womb of the Divine Mother.

Read confessions of english opium eater by Thomas DeQunicy. He knew what was up. I read it years ago but did not really understand it until i tried opium for myself, heroin pales in comparison. The high from heroin is so one dimensional and boring even.
 
The problem is we will never be able to even curb the demand, much less stop it. Our culture is one of give me more of what I want, and give it to me now. If everyone could just learn to appreciate bicycles and land line phones more, less people would drive while on their smartphones on the way to work.

Let's be real here. Your entire way of thinking is cute, naive, and totally delusional. I applaud your philosophical prowess. However, as far as practicality is concerned, it's sadly bereft of all reason. It shows an honest lack of understanding of the basic principles behind drug addiction and dependence while remaining as far removed from the reality of the roles drugs play in our society as possible.

It's beautiful to dream: You just proved not all dreams have meaning.
 
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