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Opioids opinion: best opiate agonist to taper then kick habit

OpiYum

OpiYum

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
483
Location
New York
So I've been on suboxone for like 5 years and I really don't like the way I feel on it. I have some mental hang ups with it. Even though I can function, I feel miserable and I cannot taper in the slightest - my typical dose for 5 years varied from 8mgs -16 mgs a day.

Recently, I relapsed hard on opana IRs and had a sky high tolerance. I used ketamine to taper and just because it is so expensive, plus tolerance issues, I started dosing minimally with opana (rectal and nasal- - i know, it sounds stupid, but it was the only opiate i have alot of). I wait for w/d and try to do a minimal amount. I feel stable on opana, but I dose about 3 X (1 10mg IR pill per dose) per 24 hours. Compared to shooting 10 opanas at a time, this is a success for me. Plus, I just feel better not on suboxone and not iv'ing.

However, I know there are better agonists out there and have made a doctor's apt to see if I could get a longer acting agonist with which to taper.

I was thinking about asking for morphine xr (kadians bc it lasts long and I don't feel tempted to abuse morphine due to past bad experiences).

Would a fentanyl patch work? Again, I don't have a craving to nod out these days and can wait until w/d to do a minimum amount.

Does anyone else have experience tapering with full agonists?

Is methadone a good idea? -- My friends warned me against using methadone, but I need to clarify why...

I greatly appreciate ur sharing experiences and opinions/comments.
 
Since hydromorphone's (Dilaudid) duration is only 4-5 hours, I would think I would have to re-up often. I don't remember a long acting hydromorphone in the US (but I could be wrong vs hydromorphcontin in Canada). I am not tempted to abuse hydromorphone, but I don't see how it would be better than even an opana er, oxycontin hcl, or another long acting opiate agonist.

Hey 187coopa, I would like to know if u could explain why hydromorphone would be fast and quick for tapering and quitting compared to other agonists bc I don't understand...
 
Your thinking is all fucked up dude. If you can't taper off suboxone what makes you think you can taper an extremely addictive and very potent opiate like oxymorphone?

You just need to taper off the subs man. I was on that shit for 8 months, did a slow taper and ended at about half a mg (.5mg) and still had shitty withdrawals. Suboxone withdrawals last longer but they're not as intense. If you go back to Opana, you're gonna end up worse than you are now unless you've got the willpower of a god.
 
Deadhead420 said:
Your thinking is all fucked up dude. If you can't taper off suboxone what makes you think you can taper an extremely addictive and very potent opiate like oxymorphone?

You just need to taper off the subs man. I was on that shit for 8 months, did a slow taper and ended at about half a mg (.5mg) and still had shitty withdrawals. Suboxone withdrawals last longer but they're not as intense. If you go back to Opana, you're gonna end up worse than you are now unless you've got the willpower of a god.
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+1


If you cant taper off subs.. you surely wont be able to taper off of a stronger opiate

you are taking steps backwards imo and ime
 
methadone is very potent and could raise your tolerance, that's why some people are wary of it. but it can be very useful to get into a more sober lifestyle with support from the clinic. as long as you're on the right dose, and it lasts all day, you should be good

w/d will be harder from other opiates besides sub, but if you need to get on track with anything you may want to work things out on methadone
 
My opinion:
5 day methadone taper.

Also, I don't know what type of doctor would let you just choose what opiate you want to taper off with. Not sure if he will "be down" with that.
 
Sorry bud but there is no "magic opiate" or "magic pill" that will end all withdrawl for good, it's just something ur gonna have to taper down as low as you can go then jump off and cold turkey the shit, it may seem impossible and never ending but it will eventually get better.


especially if your on methadone, that was my mistake, was on 95mg's for almost a year and went down 1mg a day til i got to 20mg's and just got to the point where i said fuck it and left the clinic at 20mg's, cause i was paying full price just to come down 1mg per day, i said fuck that and cold turkey'd it at 20mg's, first 2-3 months we're fucking hell and ended up in the ER twice, but after that it started getting better, took a year befor i started really feeling back to myself again, yes a year, methadone is fucking brutal let me tell you, time and time, its going to take time and it's only up to you.

most people can't do it and remain on it for life, i just couldn't see myself on that routine for the rest of my life, no way in hell.
 
OpiYum said:
I feel miserable and I cannot taper in the slightest - my typical dose for 5 years varied from 8mgs -16 mgs a day.
Click to expand...
So you tried tapering and you didn't feel all right when doing so? Did you give it at least 1-2 weeks on a lower dose (say, 6mg or 4mg / day) to see if you feel any different after you've gotten time to adjust?

Recently, I relapsed hard on opana IRs and had a sky high tolerance. I used ketamine to taper and just because it is so expensive, plus tolerance issues, I started dosing minimally with opana (rectal and nasal- - i know, it sounds stupid, but it was the only opiate i have alot of). I wait for w/d and try to do a minimal amount. I feel stable on opana, but I dose about 3 X (1 10mg IR pill per dose) per 24 hours. Compared to shooting 10 opanas at a time, this is a success for me. Plus, I just feel better not on suboxone and not iv'ing.
Click to expand...
Is this to say you have tried IV buprenorphine, or just IV opana, and buprenorphine? And you feel better not IVing opana, nor taking buprenorphine?

Ketamine is a fun drug, I can see it being very useful for tapering/WDing. The tolerance to ketamine is very quick building so be careful not to go overboard with it in a short amount of time. :)

However, I know there are better agonists out there and have made a doctor's apt to see if I could get a longer acting agonist with which to taper.

I was thinking about asking for morphine xr (kadians bc it lasts long and I don't feel tempted to abuse morphine due to past bad experiences).

Would a fentanyl patch work? Again, I don't have a craving to nod out these days and can wait until w/d to do a minimum amount.

Does anyone else have experience tapering with full agonists?

Is methadone a good idea? -- My friends warned me against using methadone, but I need to clarify why...

I greatly appreciate ur sharing experiences and opinions/comments.
Click to expand...

I would avoid methadone and fentanyl, I think morphine is a good place to start because of the low oral BA.

BlueberryfishY said:
Sorry bud but there is no "magic opiate" or "magic pill" that will end all withdrawl for good,
Click to expand...

This is the truth. The closest you would get to a "one dose treatment" would be ibogaine, and good luck finding that.
 
Hey CH,
Yes, have gotten on low doses of suboxone, even did 3 months w/o any opiates, but I have abused suboxone by cycling so much or I don't know why, but I feel like I would rather taper on a long acting agonist. I have IV'd subs a few times, but I usually rather take it sublingually if I take it. With the opanas I have not abused it recently or IV'd it and feel clarity that a full agonist is the way for me. Depending on my mental state (and I feel pretty strong now), opana and other full agonists do not tempt or even affect me except to stave away w/d (which I only got once a loved one convinced me that I went through them-- weird, I know).

Would u say morphine extended release vs the morphine IR?
And my plan is to alternate between ketamine and the full agonist taper.

Just wondering if anyone has succeed or heard of this method. I mean, no matter what I am going to try this way bc the suboxone taper hasn't worked for me in 5 years and I have mental issues around it.
 
Your thinking is fucking wack. You need to just taper off the subs and be done with it. Your just dancing around the fact that its going to be fucking painful either way to go about it, and just copping any and all opiates is going to do anything.

Try the quaalude detox program.
 
The only way your plan will have a shot, is that if you have someone blind dosing you and controlling your intake. Having your DOC at hand, it makes for easy slipups when trying to do a taper.
 
High-dose DXM is very similar to ketamine. DXM can help with opiate w/d and if ketamine is of utility to you then DXM certainly can be as well.

DXM is also far cheaper.
 
OpiYum said:
Since hydromorphone's (Dilaudid) duration is only 4-5 hours, I would think I would have to re-up often. I don't remember a long acting hydromorphone in the US (but I could be wrong vs hydromorphcontin in Canada). I am not tempted to abuse hydromorphone, but I don't see how it would be better than even an opana er, oxycontin hcl, or another long acting opiate agonist.

Hey 187coopa, I would like to know if u could explain why hydromorphone would be fast and quick for tapering and quitting compared to other agonists bc I don't understand...
Click to expand...

I had bad side effects with methadone, and we dont have bupe on the pharmacy shelves in NB yet. I am also a pain patient. I asked and my doctor swutched me to hydromorph contin (long acting dilaudid) without a problem. I however have no intention of tapering and am using it for pain and maintainance,and my doctor knows it. My best friend's doctor did it for himas well. Just wanted to let you know there are atleast two other docs in the world who bought the story.

Its going to be tuff though convincing him both bupe and methadone are no good for you, since these drugs are known to have very few side effects. Best of luck
 
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I would agree with the person who mentioned the 5 day methadone taper. That, or tough it out with Loperamide and Kratom
 
Kratom helped me a ton to get off a low dose Sub habit(88mg's over 2 weeks). Then i tried using Loperamide to get off Kratom, but I finally just took a shit 2 days later after 20mg's. Got more Kratom coming in the mail now so I give up.
 
If one has a large tolerance, would kratom even work?

I tried kratom once and could barely get it/keep it down - yucky..
 
What i like about dilaudid is that it is so short acting that when it does come time to quit if u get acclimated to the dilaudid then when it comes time to jump off the w/d will be really intense for only a day or 2.

plus paws which is usually what gets people back on opes will be shorter in duration.

after a month you'll be feelin decent compared to suboxone or methadone where ur gonna feel like shit forever.
 
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