Opiate vs. Benzo withdrawal / Benzo detox help?

[xburtonchic]

I'll start off with the typical stuff- background info, dosage, current situation, blah blah blah. Also, I apologize in advance because this is all over the place lol. For some strange reason I went to bed around 8 pm and woke up about an hour later feeling nauseous and sick, spent the next few hours thrashing around in bed (involuntary violent jerks is more like it actually), having a hard time breathing... finally got up and now I feel better, but a bit feverish. So my mind is a bit foggy and all over the place at the moment, I'm sorry. :/

Alright. So I'm currently seeing an addiction specialist for opiate and benzo dependence. (Got addicted to opiates after I was kept on them for too long after a surgery, subsequently developed some pretty severe anxiety after my first attempt to kick.) However, I feel like the benzo "addiction" is more of a... tolerance? In fact, if I wasn't so acutely aware of how dangerous it is to attempt to CT benzo's, I wouldn't even remember to take them. But even though I don't display addictive behavior towards benzo's (i.e. I don't have cravings or take more than I need to and etc., the way I did with opiates) and I personally feel like it wouldn't be as much of a problem to get off of those as it is the opiates, my addiction specialist begs to differ. And after doing some research of my own and looking at my situation from an outside perspective, there's a part of me that knows deep down that he's probably right. This is due to the simple fact that my doctor thought that it would be fun to continue increasing my dosage over the past year as my tolerance grew, instead of putting me on them for a few short weeks and then taking me off (the way it should be done). Yes, this is the same doctor who tried to treat my opiate addiction by letting me have free reign with a seemingly endless supply of Norco and telling me to wean myself off. Heh. Anyway, now the Xanax doesn't even work for my anxiety. If anything, it's just way worse than it was before. I guess my addiction(s) have become more than his medical degree allows him to handle, which is why I was referred to this specialist. I'm considered a "high-risk patient" due to the fact that I have to mix opiates with benzo's every single day (apparently very dangerous, but luckily am on a low dose of Sub and have been mixing the two without too many problems for a year now), and because of this, he's taking everything SUPER SLOW. Current dosages are as follows: Vistaril (for anxiety, since the Xanax stopped working) 50 mg as needed- usually 1 to 3 a day, depending on the day; Xanax (purely for maintenance now ) 1 mg 3x a day, though sometimes I take less; Suboxone (the lesser of the evils, also for maintenance) 1 mg per day every morning, though to be honest it's probably even less than that- I use the film strips and they tend to start dissolving before you can even place them properly lol.

Now that the boring stuff is out of the way, moving on to why I'm asking these questions, exactly. On my last visit, I asked him what the plan was for getting off Xanax. He said, "Nothing. It's impossible at this point." Naturally, it is now my life goal to prove him wrong. The quickest way to get me to do something? Tell me I can't do it. And so I began to research benzo dependence, in the hopes of creating a taper schedule for myself... except... there isn't actually much information available about it. At all. Even worse is the alarmingly low success rate and lack of "yay I did it!" stories. NOW this is starting to worry me. Is the lack of success stories due to the fact that there simply are none? From what VERY little information I've been able to gather, benzo withdrawals make opiate withdrawals seem like a cake walk in the park. And I mean, opiate withdrawals are bad. To me, the lowest of the low and the worst pain I've experienced so far in my life. I'm having a hard time imagining something that could be even worse, so I'm seriously hoping I'm just really ignorant about benzo withdrawals and don't know what I'm talking about and that someone will come along and tell me that it's not as horrible as I'm thinking.

So on the off chance any of you have been through benzo withdrawals and succeeded, or even been through them and NOT succeeded, or even better- have been through both benzo AND opiate withdrawal... can you shed a little more light on the subject? Feelings/experiences/symptoms during benzo withdrawal? Taper schedule, other drugs that help? Anything? I know more than I need to about opiate withdrawal lol so I'm not looking for information on that. All I really want to know on that front is how the two compare, as far as duration of withdrawals and pain level and etc. I'm really hoping to get some first hand accounts and personal experiences, so anything would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[Orlando_Doom]

Well, I can speak for myself in terms of opiates, and for my father in terms of benzos and opiates. My dad was addicted and dependant on diazepam, lorazepam and tetrazepam (whatever the doc he went to gave him) and was at a point that for two years, every day he complained he can't sleep when he actually slept 18 hours a day and the rest was spent more or less in a narcotic state. He used HUGE doses, like 50mg Diazepam at once, and 10mg + Lorazepam over the day. Talk about tolerance, but he's old so docs never thought anything about just prescribing more. Simultaneously he was dependant, and probably addicted, to opiates for back pain after an accident.

I don't want to scare you - he did a taper in a clinic, both at once. Opiate withdrawal, only the body stuff, was done in about 3 weeks (but I know that the insomnia problems purely from opiates can last for MONTHS when the other effects are gone). It took him over a year to taper down from the benzos and the withdrawal was still heavy on him. Today, if you offer him a diazepam he panically declines.

So, in short form, opiate withdrawal is very unpleasant and will leave you unhappy, grudgy and blue for a very long time even after the withdrawal itself is done. Benzo withdrawal however is another beast. It is possible, but it takes very, very long especially from high doses, it is painful and it will leave your mind much more scarred than opiates ever could.

And if you have trouble with insomnia on opiate withdrawal, dont talk about benzos. You won't get a good night of sleep for possibly a year or longer, depending on dosages and how long you`ve been dependant.

I don`t want to discourage you, to be honest, it`s your life, and you can and should do whatever you want. But just know, successfull, long term benzo and opiate withdrawal are possibly two of the hardest things humans can do in a lifetime.

 

[effie]

I feel that for a doctor to say that there is no way you can even attempt to taper off benzos is completely unprofessional and makes me angry. There may be few success stories about, but there are some, and I think the attitude you have towards them makes you far more likely to succeed - you are very unlikely to neck all your weekly taper supply in one day as you don't have cravings to up your dose, therefore you are more likely to stick to the programme and succeed. Yes it is going to be hard but I would seriously think about finding a doctor who can help you. I'm also going to shoot this over to Other Drugs as they are the taper experts.

Your doses mostly aren't that high either. Don't worry about the Vistoril/hydroxyzine. 3mg Xanax/alprazolam a day might seem really high but I have certainly seen higher! In the UK you would be coverted to diazepam and tapered with that (see equivalency chart in my sig), as it is easier to taper long-lasting benzos than short-acting ones such as Xanax, although you'd need to see a specialist to be prescribed more than 30mg diazepam. I don't know what the situation is like elsewhere. As for 1mg sub/buprenorphine, that's pretty damn low too, and although you are unlikely to be able to jump straight off it pain free it shouldn't be tooooo bad.. as you say, the lesser of the two evils.

This is quite a complex post asking a complex tapering question so am going to send it to OD. Hope that is okay.

BDD > OD

 

[crestfallen]

This weekend I stopped taking 1mg Xanax daily after only taking it for 2 months on/off(mostly on towards the end). All I can say is that I got about 36 hours into w/d b4 I decided that it was way too extreme to stop cold turkey. I was sweating, felt like I had the flu plus I had really bad rebound anxiety/depression, NO SLEEP possible...ughhh It was worse than my hydrocodone/roxy/diluadid w/d's that I had after stopping a month long binge cold turkey . So I wasn't on the opiates for long BUT I was taking huge doses (100-300mgs of hydrocodone daily), a whole bottle of Roxy 15's gone in 2 days(30 pills) and IV'ing more than 10mgs of diluadid at a time.

Even though I was taking 2-6mg of Xanax at a time ONLY during my last week, it was worse than any other w/d I have felt b4. I refilled my script for klonopin .5mgs and I am going to taper off cuz I can't deal with this shit. About 2 hours after I took 1mg of klonopin, the w/d went away and I was able to fall asleep easily. All in all, benzo w/d made me look like a lil bitch lol

 

[xburtonchic]

Effie- no problem, I wasn't quite sure where this belonged to begin with haha and this just seemed like the best option thanks!

Anyway thanks for all the responses so far! They've definitely been helpful and cleared up my original question of which one is worse. Looks like that award goes to benzo's. After reading everyone's responses, I officially fucking hate benzodiazepines in general, and am not looking forward to getting off of them.

Actually it kind of blows my mind that this shit is even prescribed to people, when there are clearly other, safer options *cough*Vistaril*cough* that aren't addictive. And I'm sure there's more where that came from for people who can't take Vistaril, I mean I highly doubt that's the ONLY non-benzo anti-anxiety med out there. Benzo withdrawals sound brutal. They should have just as much, if not more, emphasis in the media as opiate withdrawals do. I don't get why opiate withdrawals get so much attention and have so many other drugs to help with it (Suboxone, Subutex, Methadone)... while in the meantime, benzo withdrawals get no attention whatsoever even though they're far more dangerous (and apparently far more painful). Maybe someday they'll develop something like Suboxone for benzo's, but I doubt it. And the sad part is that teenagers.. KIDS.. are being prescribed this shit.

Oh and crestfallen that last sentence made lol. Don't feel bad though! I think opiate/benzo withdrawals would turn even the strongest man/woman on earth into a little bitch

 

[bluedolphin]

I've gone cold turkey off 60mg Valium a day, which led to paranoia and audio and visual hallucinations > detox unit > got out had a grand mal seizure.

Also tapered off 20mg Xanax a day on my own, which was a much better idea and led to much less severe results, mostly just loss of a lot of sleep.

So, taper yourself down. Lower your dose by 1/2 mg the first week, then by 1/4 mg each week after that. When you get down to 1mg you want to split the dose so you take 1/2mg twice a day. And then just try to maintain minimal amounts of alprazolam in your blood stream for as long as you feel like you need it.

If your hands get clammy or your start to feel tense, take a little more. 3mg a day honestly isn't that bad though, you shouldn't have a hard time tapering. Especially if you have got to the point where you hate benzos. Your doctor is most likely an idiot.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

3 mg and 1 mg of suboxone, your sitting in a better spot than I am after trying to quit both opiates and benzos over the last 2 to 3 years, currently im between 2-4 mg clonazepam a day and 1-2 mg suboxone, depending on things like, oh say, what time of the month it is. . . What im saying is I think you have a real chance, I have never for a second thought that I'm stuck with this problem/dependency permanently. (since both are legit scripts its not really a problem even...)

For me I can skip a day or two even for both suboxone and clonazepam, however clonazepam has a much longer half-life.

Comparing addictions I have found benzo tolerance to move both upwards and downwards more rapidly and easily than opiates, I was able to taper down to 2 mg suboxone painlessly but any cut after that Ive felt daily, got down to about .5 mg a day for awhile and slipped up a bit......its been a cycle like that starting at 4mg suboxone a day and 8mg xanax a day about 2 years ago.....Just keeping making progress!

also your will power seems stronger than mine, just admitting it, I do crave benzos as well as opiates, I even indulge once every other month in "real opiates"...which has led me from .5mg suboxone back to 1-2mg btw, bad idea.

 

[xburtonchic]

damn bluedolphin, I am amazed that you got off of 20mg xanax all on your own... snaps to that for sure! Good fuckin job dude and congrats!

smokey you're overestimating my will power lol! Not sure if I mentioned it already on this thread, but I've tried quitting opiates THREE times and have failed. Each. Time. I either tried to ease the withdrawals with more opiates, or couldn't take it and went back on Suboxone. I also still have major cravings for opiates... like you wouldn't even believe... and at the same time, it fucking sucks, because I know taking them would have zero effect on me at this point. The last time I "indulged" was about a month ago... when I tried jumping off of Suboxone... I took FIVE Vicodin pills. Yes, FIVE. And it landed me in the ICU for acetaminophen poisoning. Idk how the fuck that happened, since five is nothing... I used to take upwards of 20 a day... but whatever I've learned my lesson haha. I'm just more careful now! So yeah, see? My willpower definitely isn't the greatest. It's just that benzo's don't have the same power over me that opiates do for some reason. I guess they're just not appealing to me because opiates give me energy and euphoria, whereas benzo's just make me tired and relax me a bit. I was prescribed the stuff when I was 15 too, for 6 months, had absolutely ZERO problem with it. Just stopped taking them one day cold turkey and that was it. If I had withdrawal symptoms, I either didn't notice them or wrote them off as something else.

Oh and I'm not saying my addiction is bad at this point! I actually feel very blessed to have made it to where I am now, I'm proud of myself. Truly, I know 1mg Subs and 2 mg... well, now 1 1/2 mg as of today of Xanax... is nothing compared to the way I used to have it and it definitely doesn't compare to the way some people have it now!

Just a bit of a side note: for those of you talking about how hard it is tapering below 2 mg Subs, it is hard... on the pills. But the film strips, idk what it is, but they're sooo much better as far as withdrawals and just the "I feel like crap overall" feeling. I highly suggest you try to switch to the film strips! My theory on the strips is that you think you're taking more than you actually are... so it ends up being a sort of placebo effect, and that's why they're not quite as brutal to taper down from as the pills. Try it, if you can! It's way better than the pills IMO!