jacky said:
then there are the " disputed opioid " herbs
I say disputed because some people dont like that they are not classic opiates, or that they are disputed in specific action, but I say/think if it fits the hand...wear it
1 kratom(mitragyna speciosa)
2 matrine in sophora subprostata
3 salvia divinorum (not for euphoria)
4 picralima nitida for stimulation (kappa/mu)
Salvia?? ehhhh don't know bout that one. Salvia is a potent kappa opioid agonist, which produces anesthesic and (in lower doses) hallucinogenic effect. Enadoline was researched in the 70s as a potent kappa opioid agonist too, when anesthesiologists were looking for novel knock-out drugs. Obviously, enadoline didn't work out. It produced hallucinations before and after the patient was brought in and then out of anesthesia.
All opiates have a primary mechanism of action on the mu-opioid receptor system, most as agonists. Buprenephrine is the only mu-agonist that also has mu-antagonist properties.
However, meperdine (i.e.- demerol) is a VERY weak kappa-opioid agonist which is why is produces such different effect than traditional opiates (mildly hallucinogenic). But the reason it IS an opiate is b/c its primary mechanism of action is as a potent mu-opioid agonist! it just happens to have very small secondary activity at the kappa-receptor sites.
so salvia can't be considered an opiate b/c it has no, or at the most, an extremely minute, action on the mu-opioid-receptor system. And its primary action is on the kappa-opioid-receptor system, with any mu-receptor activity being insignificant and secondary.
(to help clarify a bit- Alcohol has a small, secondary effect on dopamine, but yet, we don't call it a stimulant... b/c stimulants like cocaine have a direct, primary effect on dopamine).
Infact, dissociative's have more significant effect on the mu-opioid-receptors, especially DXM (being a close relative to codeine) than salvia does--so we'd have to also consider these chemicals as "disputed opiates" too, if salvia were to be classified as such. Dissociatives would actually be considered stronger opiates than salvia then. see how confusing this is getting?
So in reality, this is unrealistic b/c dissociatives aren't opiates or opioids (btw, opioids is a more proper term, it refers to synethetic molecules that aren't derived directly from opium, but are molecularly and pharmacologically similar to the chemicals found in opium like morphine and codeine, which are TRUE opiates).
And potent kappa-opioid-agonists, like enadoline and salvia, aren't opioids either. They don't even make the bare minimum requirements for being an opioid... having a primary mechanism of action as an agonist on the mu-opioid-receptor system. Salvia is in a class of its own.
(ps- not trying to be a dick here, just like to enlighten people and end this "dispution" you speak of... haha)
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