That's excellent news, Swarm - HR in action
If there's one thing that it would be great if everybody reading (and indeed contributing to) this thread could take from it, it would be to exercise extreme caution and discipline if using opiates/opioids of any kind. Yes they are yummy but withdrawal is not and is avoidable. And addiction is something you truly wouldn't wish on your worst enemy (should you have such a beast or just a figurative one).
Sorry to hear you're feeling so low and crappy - the initial period of actually switching from heroin to a maintenance script (whether it be methadone or bupe) can be rough. It does get easier. Bear in mind that it's very early days and you haven't settled into a new, scripted routine yet. Personally, bupe was an absolute lifesaver. It can often take a while to find the dose that is right for you though. At the "correct" dose (whatever that dose may be for you personally) Subutex/Suboxone should greatly alleviate - if not completely stop - cravings for other opiates. Obviously that only works out if you are taking it every day at said correct (for you) dose.
I'm not too sure how much heroin you were taking previously as how much you get for a given price and purity vary wildly around the country, but for "most" people a dose that effectively blocks - or at least greatly reduces - cravings is ~16mg. 4mg is pretty low for somebody with any kind of significant habit, to be honest. Especially as an initial dose. If I were to speculate, I'd suggest the fact you are only taking half the prescribed dose and skipping even that dose some days, could well be why you feel the need to use heroin as well.
The other possibility I can think of is that it's more the psychological aspect you mention - the void left when you are no longer spending all day hustling up money and running around trying to score. Heroin addiction is a full-time job and comes with compulsory overtime. It's a lot of time to fill when suddenly all that is no longer needed. Energy and motivation tend to be at a bit of a premium when trying to quit heroin. Getting the bupe dose right should make a big difference here. Personally, once I found my correct dose I was full of energy and enthusiasm. Too much, or too little, and, like you, I was unhappy, unmotivated and convinced that the whole thing was a pointless exercise and I'd be better off just going back on the crack 'n' smack diet where at least I knew where I stood. I'm so glad I didn't and stuck with the bupe. It will take some fine-tuning but it really does work wonders when it's right. For me, it's bordering on a miracle cure but I do seem to get along particularly well with bupe. As do many others - you may well be one of those but it does mean finding the dose that works for you and giving it a fair go in terms of taking it daily and not skipping days to use heroin or any other opiates.
I can only really speak of my own experience in quitting a heavy, longterm heroin addiction and, for me, once I found my "sweetspot" Subutex dose (initially 24mg, dropping fairly rapidly to 16mg, then a fairly long, slow, gentle taper down till I opted (and got a place) in inpatient detox for the final push) I got very few cravings for other opiates. I don't actually recall any but it was a few years back now. I do recall the difference being very apparent compared to all that time I spent on heroin and/or methadone when I was craving more almost as soon as each dose had kicked in. After years of abortive attempts at trying to quit the gear it was only when I got my methadone dose low enough to be able to fuck it off completely and fine-tune my dose of the Subutex that replaced it that it all kinda fell into place for me and I was finally able to stick to a maintanence-only regime, gradually tapering to nothing as and when I felt able to.
I totally understand what you mean about feeling "empty and bored" and feeling so low that suicide almost seems a viable option. It's pretty common to feel depressed and empty - it's a big change in lifestyle that effects so many parts of your life, and then there's all the brainchemistry stuff on top of that. It takes a while for body, mind and soul to adjust to its new situation, but it does adjust and things do improve. I think it's worth trying to stick to just your script and cutting out the back and ofrth between bupe and heroin. With bupe, it's not just the physical WD it works on - 4mg may be enough to stop you actually clucking but it's unlikely to block the cravings you are clearly still experiencing. 16mg is the standard starting dose for a reason. I queried my prescribing consultant when I recently went back onto bupe (for different reasons this time out - slightly long and irrelevant story so will spare you it) as I knew I didn't actually need that much to stop me going into WD. He explained that the reason they usually start people on 16mg is because it's been noted that that is the dose most people say is enough to block - or greatly curb - their cravings. Obviously it isn't the case for every single person but as a broad and general guide it is the most common. You may need a bit more, you may need a bit less, or it may be just right for you. Either way, I think it's worthwhile giving it a fair go and see how you get on.
You clearly have many good reasons to get off the gear - childhood sweethearts and miracle babies sound like very good ones to me. I am not you and my situation is not yours, but I can say that finding the right dose of bupe was the turning point for me after so many years of failed attempts and thinking there was no hope left and barely any point even trying any more. I'm so very glad I tried that one last time. I hope you feel the same way too sometime in the not-too-distant
Sorry to hear you're feeling so low and crappy - the initial period of actually switching from heroin to a maintenance script (whether it be methadone or bupe) can be rough. It does get easier. Bear in mind that it's very early days and you haven't settled into a new, scripted routine yet. Personally, bupe was an absolute lifesaver. It can often take a while to find the dose that is right for you though. At the "correct" dose (whatever that dose may be for you personally) Subutex/Suboxone should greatly alleviate - if not completely stop - cravings for other opiates. Obviously that only works out if you are taking it every day at said correct (for you) dose.
I'm not too sure how much heroin you were taking previously as how much you get for a given price and purity vary wildly around the country, but for "most" people a dose that effectively blocks - or at least greatly reduces - cravings is ~16mg. 4mg is pretty low for somebody with any kind of significant habit, to be honest. Especially as an initial dose. If I were to speculate, I'd suggest the fact you are only taking half the prescribed dose and skipping even that dose some days, could well be why you feel the need to use heroin as well.
The other possibility I can think of is that it's more the psychological aspect you mention - the void left when you are no longer spending all day hustling up money and running around trying to score. Heroin addiction is a full-time job and comes with compulsory overtime. It's a lot of time to fill when suddenly all that is no longer needed. Energy and motivation tend to be at a bit of a premium when trying to quit heroin. Getting the bupe dose right should make a big difference here. Personally, once I found my correct dose I was full of energy and enthusiasm. Too much, or too little, and, like you, I was unhappy, unmotivated and convinced that the whole thing was a pointless exercise and I'd be better off just going back on the crack 'n' smack diet where at least I knew where I stood. I'm so glad I didn't and stuck with the bupe. It will take some fine-tuning but it really does work wonders when it's right. For me, it's bordering on a miracle cure but I do seem to get along particularly well with bupe. As do many others - you may well be one of those but it does mean finding the dose that works for you and giving it a fair go in terms of taking it daily and not skipping days to use heroin or any other opiates.
I can only really speak of my own experience in quitting a heavy, longterm heroin addiction and, for me, once I found my "sweetspot" Subutex dose (initially 24mg, dropping fairly rapidly to 16mg, then a fairly long, slow, gentle taper down till I opted (and got a place) in inpatient detox for the final push) I got very few cravings for other opiates. I don't actually recall any but it was a few years back now. I do recall the difference being very apparent compared to all that time I spent on heroin and/or methadone when I was craving more almost as soon as each dose had kicked in. After years of abortive attempts at trying to quit the gear it was only when I got my methadone dose low enough to be able to fuck it off completely and fine-tune my dose of the Subutex that replaced it that it all kinda fell into place for me and I was finally able to stick to a maintanence-only regime, gradually tapering to nothing as and when I felt able to.
I totally understand what you mean about feeling "empty and bored" and feeling so low that suicide almost seems a viable option. It's pretty common to feel depressed and empty - it's a big change in lifestyle that effects so many parts of your life, and then there's all the brainchemistry stuff on top of that. It takes a while for body, mind and soul to adjust to its new situation, but it does adjust and things do improve. I think it's worth trying to stick to just your script and cutting out the back and ofrth between bupe and heroin. With bupe, it's not just the physical WD it works on - 4mg may be enough to stop you actually clucking but it's unlikely to block the cravings you are clearly still experiencing. 16mg is the standard starting dose for a reason. I queried my prescribing consultant when I recently went back onto bupe (for different reasons this time out - slightly long and irrelevant story so will spare you it) as I knew I didn't actually need that much to stop me going into WD. He explained that the reason they usually start people on 16mg is because it's been noted that that is the dose most people say is enough to block - or greatly curb - their cravings. Obviously it isn't the case for every single person but as a broad and general guide it is the most common. You may need a bit more, you may need a bit less, or it may be just right for you. Either way, I think it's worthwhile giving it a fair go and see how you get on.
You clearly have many good reasons to get off the gear - childhood sweethearts and miracle babies sound like very good ones to me. I am not you and my situation is not yours, but I can say that finding the right dose of bupe was the turning point for me after so many years of failed attempts and thinking there was no hope left and barely any point even trying any more. I'm so very glad I tried that one last time. I hope you feel the same way too sometime in the not-too-distant
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Im planning to do a quick 4 day taper off, except i have a job interview towards the end of next week, and if i dont feel well by then I'll have a minimal maintenance dose. Im on day 2 of the taper now, down to 3 tsps. I could be more aggressive with my taper but i dont see the point in making things unneccasrily hard on myself.
