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On the Demonisation of Methamphetamine on Bluelight

Perforated said:
TL;DR: all drugs fuck people's lives. We should treat them all the same. Don't take meth. If you do, be careful.

Firstly, I should say that I have quit methamphetamine, have generally found it a drug counterproductive to what I want to achieve in life, and have a very strong resolve to never touch it again. I should also say that I have been in this same situation before and inevitably picked up again. So I don't have any doubt about meth's addictive potential. But I've struggled just as hard and suffered much more loss in life thanks to old fashioned speed and cocaine at different times in my life. I'd prefer to be addicted to smoking meth than shooting speed or coke again. But really, I'd prefer to steer clear of stimulants all together.

That said, I think that the discussion of meth on Bluelight is often unbalanced and confusing. On the one hand there are posters like @agnosia (who I use just as an example, there are many others) who claim meth does not really exist or is so weak and incapabe of delivering a decent high that it is not worthy of the title 'drug'. Such posters on the 'meth is weak' side often subscribe to the belief that modern P2P production methods or cutting products used by Mexican producers result in some other substance different to what 'real' meth was when produced by bikers using pseudoephedrine.

On the other there are others, including Moderators like @mr peabody, who maintain a steady stream of material designed to convince us that meth is the most toxic, addictive, and dangerous drug ever invented and that addiction to it is basicaly gauranteed and hopeless as it turns users into violent, psychopathic monsters devoid of humanity. I have read posts by young people quite terrified their life has been destreoyed because they had one try of meth. Or worried that they cannot take prescribed stimulants for ADHD because "Adderall is the same as meth, and meth turns people into monsters".

In my view, both these extreme arguments are unhelpful unless you are a fully paid up Abolitionist member of the Drug War. Both play in the climate of toxic fear that surrounds drug use and contribute to the shaming and stigmatisation of drug use and drug users. The meth is not real meth argument says that mysterious toxins in meth will kill you and that they are both ubiquitious and cannot be tested for. It also implicitly argues that because modern meth is cut and weak it is not that dangerous. There is no evidence for any of of those things. Lots of people are getting plenty high of meth and consequently getting into all kinds of behavioural, emotional, physical, and legal problems.

The abundant violence, abandonment of children and family, criminal negligence, lying, self-prostitution, pimping of others, theft, fraud and endless other reprehensible heviour committed by all of us and revealed across thousands of posts and threads involved many other substances besides methamphetamine. In my own life, I've only experienced such things in my family and friends amongst people addicted to weed and opiates. Though, I've told many lies myself and committed tax and insurance fraud while on amphetamines.

The meth is the devil's own drug argument is hyperbole and overlooks the fact that there are many many people who use meth occasionally and recreationally with few problems or else manage long term addictions without becoming monsters or psychpaths. There are numerous members of Bluelight who fall into both categories. At the same time there are many recovered andrecovering addicts and users here whose lives were utterly destroyed by everything from weed (realtively uncommon admittedly) to opiates (very common), to precription drugs including AP's (very common), to MDMA (very common). And let's not forget coke especially crack. In fact I would venture to say, that there are more people on BL who regret the damage caused by other drugs than there are people who ruined or are ruining their lives their lives thanks to meth.

Given the mission of Bluelight is Harm Reduction and not promoting abstinence or deliberately scaring the fuck out of people who get involved with drugs I think we need to be a bit more balanced in how to present and discuss the realties of methamphetamine. It certainly is a powerful drug with specific risks and is more than capable of destroying lives. But probably no more so than many other drugs that are not similarly misrepresented or stigmatised here.

We are trying to provide a fact-based alternative to The War on Drugs, not collaborating with it. The drivers of addiction and the problems that it causes are not found purely in the substances people take. They are just as much in the socio-cultural and psychological conditions of people who run into trouble with those subsntance. If a high proportion of people in a given context have big problems with drugs, it's llikely to be just as much about that place and it's leadership (whether a household, a community, a city, or a country) than it is whatever they are taking.

Also, if you want my advice. Don't Fuck with Meth. Or Opiates. Or Coke. Or Benzos. Or Alchohol. None of them ever did me any good. But you're not me. Which is lucky for you.
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I don't even get a shout-out! I mean for fucks-sake! Methamphetamine is the future of Mankind! 😂😂😂

The difference between a poison and a cure is the dose.

The difference between a poison and a cure is the dose....


 
And I too am clean from Methamphetamine. I'm done with it.

That doesn't mean it hasn't helped me, hasn't changed me.

The way we look at drugs needs to change.

The difference between a poison and a cure is the dose.

psmag.com

The Many (Surprising) Health Benefits of Meth

In low, pharmaceutical-grade doses, meth may actually repair and protect the brain in certain circumstances.
psmag.com psmag.com
 
Dr Karl Hart is a mod here? News to me :LOL:

All drugs have dangers and all drugs can be used responsibly. Meth is prescribed to some. It's about dosage and frequency of usage. Some drugs are much more likely to lead to serious problems, and meth is one of them, as are opioids, and others. I like meth personally, but I very rarely do it and I never have my own because I know if I do I will abuse it.
 
Interesting. Although I've come to the conclusion that it's not a good thing for me personally I find it a bit weird that people demonise meth then go out that evening and do loads of coke and MethylenedioxyMETHAMPHETAMINE xD

Like Tubgirl it's been really rare to find on the street here (although that is apparently changing). After all the hype it was a little bit of a letdown. Just smokable speed really, and more compulsive. I got higher back in my crazy days doing large bombs of standard sulphate paste. More euphoric anyway.

With all the residue it leaves in a pipe it must be awful for the lungs. Even if those crystals are water soluble they'll still be sitting around on delicate tissue for a while. I also got weird stomach pains. Maybe it was shit. Not for me!
 
irrated_otter said:
Interesting. Although I've come to the conclusion that it's not a good thing for me personally I find it a bit weird that people demonise meth then go out that evening and do loads of coke and MethylenedioxyMETHAMPHETAMINE xD

Like Tubgirl it's been really rare to find on the street here (although that is apparently changing). After all the hype it was a little bit of a letdown. Just smokable speed really, and more compulsive. I got higher back in my crazy days doing large bombs of standard sulphate paste. More euphoric anyway.

With all the residue it leaves in a pipe it must be awful for the lungs. Even if those crystals are water soluble they'll still be sitting around on delicate tissue for a while. I also got weird stomach pains. Maybe it was shit. Not for me!
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Smoking Meth is toxic

You ingest it, in tiny doses..
 
I will say that when I abused ephedrine in my 20s the self harm started…huge link between two psychotic breaks in my 20s and the start of cutting…😵‍💫 I don’t mess with even coffee ☕️ much these days
 
Ephedrine abuse?

Don't know of any karl hart. Do know of carl hart. He was never an addict, as far as I can tell, so he wouldn't have had the kindling syndrome. But some of his ideas deserve a good look.

Methamphetamine and amphetamine are very different pharmacologically, when you understand the mechanism.

As far as I know, tiny doses of meth might be useful in recovering from a stroke, but not much else.
 
AlphaMethylPhenyl said:
Ephedrine abuse?

Don't know of any karl hart. Do know of carl hart. He was never an addict, as far as I can tell, so he wouldn't have had the kindling syndrome. But some of his ideas deserve a good look.

Methamphetamine and amphetamine are very different pharmacologically, when you understand the mechanism.

As far as I know, tiny doses of meth might be useful in recovering from a stroke, but not much else.
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Methamphetamine is the next Marijuana. Prove me wrong.

100 years ago Marijuana was considered a toxin.

Today it's celebrated as a cure.

Who's to say Meth (Low Dose Meth) isn't next?
 
Maybe I just don't frequent enough meth threads on here but I don't see the subject of this thread as a huge issue. Drugs get a bad reputation among users for a reason, meth is popular and can be very destructive and addictive so it's gotten a bad rep.

Yeah, okay, on paper literally any drug aside from the severely toxic side effect heavy ones could be used successfully and responsibly with little harm or negative effects, but that's not the way the world works.

Meth gets its notoriety from being popular, addictive, and mentally/physically destructive when abused. Obviously I don't support anyone being ostracized for using meth, nor do I support being a zealot for the anti meth cause. All that being said, I don't think meth use needs to be defended.

I just want to see reasonable and rational discussion about the real effects of drugs and support for the mental and physical well being of the people that use them. Like I said, I don't see the sensationalization of anti meth propaganda here, but I could be wrong and if so i'd like to see specific examples.
 
tweekers are fun to laugh at....no offense

they're all serious too

it's too serious of a drug for me

but they're fun to laugh at with there shit all stacked in front of their homes, cars half worked on, etc.

but - there's a real lot of ppl who've done some violent crimes and ended up in jail from it so it deserves a bad rap

it has a high probability of causing drug induced schizophrenia and there's nothing good that comes of that

so - in my opinion, it's the worst drug because it's just too destructive overall for a good chunk of society - i think it causes the most changes in a person - and those changes, can be some of the worst crimes being committed - rape - murder - the worst of the worst - that's what it can make of a person - and that's not good

meth = nothing good
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
tweekers are fun to laugh at....no offense

they're all serious too

it's too serious of a drug for me

but they're fun to laugh at with there shit all stacked in front of their homes, cars half worked on, etc.

but - there's a real lot of ppl who've done some violent crimes and ended up in jail from it so it deserves a bad rap

it has a high probability of causing drug induced schizophrenia and there's nothing good that comes of that

so - in my opinion, it's the worst drug because it's just too destructive overall for a good chunk of society - i think it causes the most changes in a person - and those changes, can be some of the worst crimes being committed - rape - murder - the worst of the worst - that's what it can make of a person - and that's not good

meth = nothing good
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Except most people who live like that and commit those crimes aren't on meth.

Most people who use meth don't live like that or commit those crimes.

You say that they are fun to laugh at then say they are schizophrenic rapists.. you clearly take your point about as seriously as I have.
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
tweekers are fun to laugh at....no offense

they're all serious too

it's too serious of a drug for me

but they're fun to laugh at with there shit all stacked in front of their homes, cars half worked on, etc.

but - there's a real lot of ppl who've done some violent crimes and ended up in jail from it so it deserves a bad rap

it has a high probability of causing drug induced schizophrenia and there's nothing good that comes of that

so - in my opinion, it's the worst drug because it's just too destructive overall for a good chunk of society - i think it causes the most changes in a person - and those changes, can be some of the worst crimes being committed - rape - murder - the worst of the worst - that's what it can make of a person - and that's not good

meth = nothing good
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Although you were a bit more explicit then I usually am I do have to agree with you. Given my current age and what I have seen in the last 20 years I fear your judgement is spot on. " cars half worked on " is rampant here. They start all amped up, get it torn apart, run out. re-up, then on to the next unfinished job. The last 27 violent crimes in my neck of the woods had meth involved. That's all anyone does here anymore. There's a few fent users but not too many. Too many died already. For living in a small hick town I swear there's more drugs here than in Detroit. Guessing they are coming North from Detroit come to think of it. I long to meet a responsible meth user. Never have. It's all or nothing and when they have all they are lunatics and when they have nothing they are in bed bitching about it. They can't hold jobs because if they don't have a bump they call in and lose their job. I try not to put them all in the same box but when you live in a town my size and see the numbers it's hard not to. This is more for people under 30. I'm not sure how 50 year old meth users behave because I haven't met one that age. And I know there are users that stay home and have sex and play on their phone but that's not what they do up here in the crazy Northern woods.
 
Kaden_Nite said:
Except most people who live like that and commit those crimes aren't on meth.

Most people who use meth don't live like that or commit those crimes.

You say that they are fun to laugh at then say they are schizophrenic rapists.. you clearly take your point about as seriously as I have.
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i didn't say all meth users....but it does happen and it happens frequently - and i feel bad for people who are in jail because of it, because it literally can make you somebody who you're really not....i worked at a prison for a few years and a very large percentage of those there, meth was involved

very very very destructive and i hope anybody here who is addicted, frees themselves from it someday soon before something goes wrong

and im just telling you how i feel and i dont expect you to agree with me at the same time - its just my point of view
 
Forgot to factor in the firearm factor. This is a hunters paradise and everyone has a gun and everyone is carrying. Crimes that are happening on the spur of the moment and amp fueled are resulting in people getting shot much more easily. It's bad enough they were just fighting with their hands but now they just shoot you. Same with alcohol. Shit just gets people riled up I swear. Nice cool peeps turn into savages on the turn of a dime? What the hell? Is it so intense and you are so high that you just act on the spur of the moment? I guess.

I used to think I wanted to live rural but I was wrong. Give me back the city where at least there are neighbors close by. Takes 45 minutes for the cops to come from the shop to here. They put in a substation but it hasn't helped. This isn't about the right to bear arms. I believe in Venison wholeheartedly. But young people that should be having a good life are carrying and fucking up their whole future. Just damn sad when you see Mom's and Dad visiting junior in prison. Have 3 families within 10 miles doing that right now. Meth and guns kids. It's not going to end well.
 
Pumpkin2021 said:
Forgot to factor in the firearm factor. This is a hunters paradise and everyone has a gun and everyone is carrying. Crimes that are happening on the spur of the moment and amp fueled are resulting in people getting shot much more easily. It's bad enough they were just fighting with their hands but now they just shoot you. Same with alcohol. Shit just gets people riled up I swear. Nice cool peeps turn into savages on the turn of a dime? What the hell? Is it so intense and you are so high that you just act on the spur of the moment? I guess.

I used to think I wanted to live rural but I was wrong. Give me back the city where at least there are neighbors close by. Takes 45 minutes for the cops to come from the shop to here. They put in a substation but it hasn't helped.
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Exactly my situation. :\
 
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