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On Nature, morality, and God

Please ( asking politely) dont discuss evolution as some religious nut (that a joke)
will come shut thread down for disagreeing with
Them.
Im done posting here after I finish this thread, and it looks were almost done so ain't got to make it much farther.

PS. Any one want a link to a really good video on youtube of a biologist dismantling evolution of species theory with SCIENCE. Just PM me.
One of best I have ran across. Lots of info.

(Sorry couldnt resist, i had to retort # character flaw#really dont care
 
The moderator did the right thing shutting down the evolution thread.
We were all acting like a bunch of apes.
 
I did answer the question in a post earlier. It was vague though. I said that possibly we the morals that we come to use could come from interactions with other people in the community. So yes that would apply to all over the world. Different groups of people make up different morals to live by. Just like I said earlier about the different pods of dolphins as an example.
Also, I am not all that comfortable with the whole message board thing. I am used to discussing these things in person. This may be why I may seem scatter brained at timed.
 
Yes we are born with them. I am saying that over time we come to realise which morals to follow an which ones not to follow.
 
(That makes less sense than what meth is saying.)

So, all animal species are born with the same morals?
Or are we the only ones born with morals?
Or are all animal species born with different morals?

Why would we be born with morals, if we "come to realize which morals to follow"?
What's the point?

Are you confusing morals with instincts, perhaps?
 
Not one has refuted Ravi Zacharis's claim of good and evil coming from moral laws

Anyone got the chutzpah

Ps I believe I have very nicely laid a case from where morals came from.

I HONESTLY (and you can read the thread)
havent seen a better theory presented here

Trust me, if you're trying to argue subjective morals, you ain't got a leg to stand on
 
Morals mean different things to different people.What may be acceptable to one community may not be acceptable to another community. I am thinking that humans came about with a conscience. Over time through interaction we come to learn what morals are acceptable in a community to make that community successfully.
 
The Ravi Zacharis thing is flimsy as shit.

1. "When you assume there's good, you assume there's such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil"

I think apples taste better than oranges. Therefore, I think apples are (relatively) good. What I assume he's talking about is an objective sense of good and evil, which non-believers don't generally subscribe to. So, he's just preaching to the crowd.

Abject already responded to this point:
Abject said:
Also morals aren't objective in the sense of being inherent or certain, and god is not a prerequisite for "objective morals" (read: the law)
Click to expand...

2. "if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver"

Like the government? Or must we "posit" God. If so, why?

meth said:
I believe I have very nicely laid a case from where morals came from.
Click to expand...

Of course you do, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it.

meth said:
I HONESTLY (and you can read the thread) havent seen a better theory presented here
Click to expand...

Your case is more consistent (at least) than Dystopia's, but it's just as flawed.

...

Dystopia, just humour me and answer these questions:

So, all animal species are born with the same morals/conscience?
Or are we the only ones born with morals/conscience?
Or are all animal species born with different morals/conscience?

Why would we be born with morals/conscience, if we "come to realize which morals to follow"?
What's the point?

Are you confusing morals/conscience with instincts, perhaps?
 
ForEverAfter said:
I meant an alternate theory as to where the morals come from. Dystopia has attempted to shoot down one theory, but hasn't offered another one that isn't severely incomplete / doesn't directly contradict itself. (He asked questions of someone else that he cannot himself answer: that was my point.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearin' that up.
 
IT was suggested I hadn't answered my own questions.
I have.

Apples taste better than oranges?
That equates to good v evil?

So liking one better than other is what makes it better?
So you if like pulling heads off little children better than not pulling heads off little children that makes pulling little heads off children good?

Wow , what makes something evil in your world?

My case flawed?
How so?
What you got better? Not that not having anything makes mine right,
Jus curious as to what is your theory
Ive been honest
if you say you dont know I will accept that
 
We are born with the conscience which gives us ability to create morals.
Honestly I can not say all animals. I do believe most mammals do.
We would be born with that ability to create the proper morals to succeed within the community. Right and wrong is not the same within animal communities as well as human communities. They are not the same everywhere.
I probably sound crazy but oh well.
 
Last edited:
Well I believe it puts a lot of weight on each individual to abide by the morals that have been found to work. If enough individuals begin to change the moral make it could lead to a total change in how the community functions.
 
Dystopia said:
We are born with (a) conscience which gives us (the) ability to create morals.
Honestly I can not say all animals (are born with a conscience). I do believe most mammals (are)...
We would be born with (the) ability to create the proper morals to succeed within the community.
Click to expand...

me said:
So we aren't born with (morals), then?
Click to expand...

Dystopia said:
We would be born with (the) ability to create the proper morals
Click to expand...
Dystopia said:
I believe that we are born with these morals
Click to expand...

Another direct contradiction!

Sounds like you haven't worked out what you believe.

Why do you believe that most mammals are born with a conscience?
Is there any basis for this, or is it essentially "faith"?

Dystopia said:
Right and wrong is the same within animal communities as well as human communities. They are not the same everywhere.
Click to expand...

Please clarify this a bit. I don't understand what you're saying.

...

meth,

You asked me to respond to the Ravi Zacharis argument, which I did. Abject also did. Now you're not offering the same courtesy, by responding to our response. Latching onto the apples/oranges thing and taking it out of context is no way to have a civilized conversation. I'm honestly not sure if you bother to read things that other people write, or you just skim them with a smug little smile on your face then type the first thing that pops into your head.

Respond to this:

Ravi Zancharis said:
if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver
Click to expand...

me said:
Like the government? Or must we "posit" God? If so, why?
Click to expand...

I will tell you my theory, if you do me (and Abject) the courtesy of acknowledging our responses and replying to them.

You need to read the apples and oranges thing again, because you totally misunderstood it.

I was making a distinction between preferential good and "objective" moral good.

What I said was pretty clear, despite - evidently - falling on deaf ears.

...

meth said:
We didnt get these morals via natural selection or random mutation uh?
Click to expand...

Zing!

Dystopia said:
Well I believe it puts a lot of weight on each individual to abide by the morals that have been found to work. If enough individuals begin to change the moral make it could lead to a total change in how the community functions.
Click to expand...

And your response doesn't even make sense.

You're actually being defeated in argument by meth!
 
I do believe that mammals are born with a conscience. Simply my opinion.

Right and wrong is not the same from community to.community. Those decisions were made over time from interaction we with others.
 
Dystopia ,
srry a repeat question
have you ever seen twilight zone episode
" the obselete man"?
I think its on youtube.
Itz based on a totalitarian state that "evolves"
In future.
You could say they had a moral shift.
My whole point of not putting morals in stone.
 
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