On Extraction and Synthetic Drugs

[Roger&Me]

I'm surprised the DMT entities don't whoop your ass.

Man, I've tried to refrain from judgment so far. But that's a pretty fucked up thing to say to someone!

It seems like so far all you've really done here is alienate people in favor of pushing your own "entheogen"-centered agenda; additionally you've lied to us unapologetically, and insulted people based on their pharmacological preferences.

What gives, man?

It seems like you might be happier posting in another forum or something; BL has always welcomed users of chemical psychedelics with open arms, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Haha

It was a joke, relax.

It seems like you might be happier posting in another forum or something, because BL has always openly welcomed users of chemical psychedelics and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

I do not expect it to change.

I expect people to read my post and either agree, disagree or be indifferent to it.

Or... to not read my posts.

additionally you've lied to us unapologetically,

im sorry.

and insulted people based on their pharmacological preferences.

Haha... I'm a pharmacological-preferential- racist!

It's not "my way is better and yours isn't" this is about legality and social perception... if we want to make a positive impact we need to be intelligent and think about what we are doing...

Again guys... this is about legality and social acceptance... not the morality of taking various psychoactive compounds (except when it comes to ethically utilizing plants).

 

[Roger&Me]

Sorry if I interpreted your comments as hurtful when they were made in jest. Something about that DMT comment just rubbed me the wrong way, I guess.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Sorry, I'll tone it back a little bit... it's just I realize this isn't a subject that will make me many friends on sites like this... so why bother being nice?

But this is really what I truly believe and I'd like to present my opinions if that is possible.

 

[Delsyd]

But if we wish to have anything like peyote or ayahuasca legalized, then we must take a certain path.

I wish to be a legitimate citizen, I pay my taxes, I want to contribute to society, but I also want to eat peyote and drink Ayahuasca and not have to worry about the government coming to get me.

I don't think all drugs should be legal. I think living plants and viable seeds should always be legal, but beyond that, things are fair game for illegalization.

Well as of right now these plants are illegal but im willing to bet you still partake.

So are you not a legitimate citizen?

I too pay taxes and work. But i also indulge in illegal substances (plant and synthetic). I feel im a good citizen.

As Coolio pointed out in another thread. Its THEM that are wrong. So i will continue to do what i feel is right regardless of what the law may be.

 

[Delsyd]

Sorry, I'll tone it back a little bit... it's just I realize this isn't a subject that will make me many friends on sites like this... so why bother being nice?

But this is really what I truly believe and I'd like to present my opinions if that is possible.

Sharing your opinions is fine.
But remembering that they are just opinions is important around here. And not belitteling the views of others because they are different than your own.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Its THEM that are wrong.

I know.

So i will continue to do what i feel is right regardless of what the law may be.

But they will put you in jail.

Well as of right now these plants are illegal but im willing to bet you still partake.
So are you not a illegitimate citizen?

Not really... I got rid of everything illegal after my last move... I just smoke Cannabis now, I can handle a misdemeanor, but ya, I still feel like an illegitimate citizen.

 

[Delsyd]

you dont go to jail for consuming drugs.

why is the use of cannabis any less illegal than ayahuasca or cactus or 2c-b or lsd?

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

I'm in a medicinal marijuana area.

 

[greenmeanies]

All plants are not safe... only those with long histories of human usage which indicates they are safe. So things like Datura and Brugmansia obviously are not safe, but things like Peyote and Ayahuasca are.

sorry, datura has a history of shamanic use in eastern north america by early humans, and a "tobacco-only fast" often precedes traditional ayahuasca ceremonies (sounds like a recipe for disaster!) so you need to get off your damned 'organic' trip. modern life would not be possible without the purification, characterization, and modification of unique chemical compounds that could kill us in their 'natural' form.

while i appreciate your deep love for plants and their spirits, i believe you need a healthy dose of humor and understanding. everyone has their own path to spiritual connection.

besides, the plants told ME that no matter how hard ignorant people may try to destroy them, they will ALWAYS PREVAIL. they have survived and adapted for millenia long before shamans or noobies decided to eat or smoke them, and they will survive for millenia after we wipe each other out over petty territorial disputes. they need your help like a fighter pilot needs a three-year-old for a navigator. we might know techniques to increase germination or yield in a garden or farm, but it pales in comparison to the eons of genetic history-- filled with mistakes and successes-- contained in each seed.

 

[Delsyd]

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

sorry, datura has a history of shamanic use in eastern north america by early humans, and a "tobacco-only fast" often precedes traditional ayahuasca ceremonies (sounds like a recipe for disaster!) so you need to get off your damned 'organic' trip.

Did you not note that I said you LOOK at the long history of human usage to determine if it's safe or not.... so things like Datura are NOT to be used... and things like Peyote are.

See the Nexus for more info on this.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Psychoactives consider safe must have a "yes" answer to the following questions-
1) Does it come directly from natural/organic botanical sources? Is it a plant?
2) Does it have a long history of human use? Has it been scientifically studied?
3) Does it's history of human use and scientific study show that it is relatively safe and non-toxic?
4) Does it's history of human use and scientific study show it to be non-addictive and/or non-habitat forming?
5) Does it's history of human use show that it is an effective psychoactive?


*Note- A “long” history of human usage is considered to be about 1000 years. The longer the better.



If you ONLY take psychoactive drugs which answer "yes" to all the above questions you will keep yourself safe and your mind sharp.

 

[Cloudy]

Wow, how nice of you to give us some criteria to base our choices of drugs on....

Don't waste our time.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Don't waste your mind.

That list is ONLY for people who care about their minds and bodies... if you don't, go ahead and do whatever you want.

 

[Solipsis]

Does it's history of human use and scientific study show it to be non-addictive and/or non-habitat forming?

:D
Damn don't you hate those drugs that just settle in?

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Haha yes, I've dealt with addiction myself.

 

[greenmeanies]

so you toke on the marijuana smoke, even though combustion of plant material produces polycyclic hydrocarbons and epoxide intermediates which are known to be detrimental to health?

i'm sorry, you're just spouting contradictions.

how does a plant BEGIN to have a history of human use? obviously at one point there must have been a FIRST TIME, when there is no previous testing or knowledge...

isn't it possible that there have been MORE human trials with certain research chemicals (2c-x, etc) than the whole history of shamanic mescaline use? i'm pretty sure there are kilograms upon kilograms of pure potent white powder being shipped to the USA every day.

what do you consider valid human use for your criteria? is pure extracted mescaline HCl 'safe' to you, or is it only 'safe' in a gross green sludgy tea?

hell, how about those kind buds which have been hybridized and hydroponically grown to be 100-1000% potency of the traditional "wild" weed one might have found 1000s of years ago? should it be considered a different drug with a new regime of safety testing?

 

[PsyGhost]

^marijuana has been cultivated for a very long time. most people weren't using wild collected plants in the past, they, like us of today, were growing, hybridizing, and selecting potent strains. plants of today are not super duper version of wild plants. Its hard to pin-point true wild cannabis plants because of the long history of human use. The vast majority of "wild" cannabis plants are in fact naturalized.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Ya I know I shouldn't smoke Cannabis, I should probably just eat it, it's safer.

how does a plant BEGIN to have a history of human use? obviously at one point there must have been a FIRST TIME, when there is no previous testing or knowledge...

By all means... be the guinea pig... after 1000 years of guinea pigs eating RCs and not dying I might try one.

isn't it possible that there have been MORE human trials with certain research chemicals (2c-x, etc) than the whole history of shamanic mescaline use? i'm pretty sure there are kilograms upon kilograms of pure potent white powder being shipped to the USA every day.

6000+ years of Peyote use and over 5000 years of San Pedro use... are you kidding?

Do you not know about Chavin and the other places in South America where San Pedro and Yopo and other entheogens were consumed in huge amounts?

hell, how about those kind buds which have been hybridized and hydroponically grown to be 100-1000% potency of the traditional "wild" weed one might have found 1000s of years ago? should it be considered a different drug with a new regime of safety testing?

Another uninformed view from somebody who knows jack shit about plants...

Should we eat Teosinte instead of Corn? I don't think so... selective breeding is a good thing dude.

If you don't know what Teosinte is then google it and do some reading about the selective breeding of plants. Almost every plant we use is a highly modified selectively breed crop just about... including things like cannabis, coca and opium!