On Extraction and Synthetic Drugs

[Teotzlcoatl]

Psychoactives consider safe must have a "yes" answer to the following questions-

1) Does it come directly from natural/organic botanical sources? Is it a plant?
2) Does it have a long history of human use? How many years has it been in human usage?
3) Does it's history of human use show that it is an effective psychoactive?
4) Does it's history of human use show that it is relatively safe and non-toxic?
5) Is this substance completely non-addictive and/or non-habitat forming?

*Note- A “long” history of human usage is considered to be 500-1000 years. The longer the better.


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The struggle of entheogens began in the 1960s....

I think at this stage in the fight for our recognition of legitimacy that it is actually hurting us more than it is helping us to extract these compounds unless you are part of a university or medical research.

I strongly encourage people to STOP extracting DMT (or any other compound such as mescaline), I think what would truly help would be for people to go out there and get degrees and try to do legitimate research instead of illegal research.

To me it seems like alot of people just want to get high and/or "just try it" without really caring about what happens to shamanic plants in the future.

One thing that REALLY bothers me about the DMT-Nexus is that basically NOBODY grows anything (a few do, but most don't) and it seems like the use up TONS (literally 1000s of pounds) of Mimosa root bark and I bet less than 1% of them grow it.

They say their too busy or w/e.... lazy bastards.

To me it's actions like this that will get DMT containing plants like Mimosa made illegal!

-snip-

 

[Coolio]

They already are illegal. Didn't I just prove this to you in another thread? You said you were going to go look for evidence and then bailed.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Well if we kept shit on the D.L. then I bet they'd continue not enforcing it just like they have for the past 50 years.

I'll also use this thread to explain why plant drugs are safer than non-plant drugs.

 

[strangedays_indeed]

obviously there is a vast amount of stupid/careless people who parktake in these things. i agree its people who are stupid which is drawing attention of the dea/government to perfectly good plants that have long been kept 'on the dl' i guess, but man, stupid people attract attention...

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Agreed, if we were all infinitely smart and responsible then heroin, nukes and anthrax could all be 100% legal... but unfortunately humans are NOT.

 

[Cloudy]

I like to use psychedelics recreationally and don't plan to stop. I'll continue to extract DMT to experience the beauty and power of the chemical compound as it effects the internal chemical system that is my brain.

I don't care about peoples ideals on how psychedelics should be experienced, and I most certainly don't give a fuck about the shamans.

This is my psychedelic journey, not theirs.

Stop trying to convince people to use drugs the way you would them to. One of the beautiful things about drugs, especially psychedelic ones is that each drug offers their own effects profile, but they all give an individual experience to the user. If you would like to offer another belief or facts, please, but don't push your beliefs down our throat, telling us we are wrong.

Also there are no differences between natural and synthetic (also extracted) drugs. The world of chemistry exists everywhere, in the lab, or in a shamans brew. Trying to discriminate against drugs based on where they came from is silly. If you are trying to make an argument against a drug, or a class of drug, it would be wise to use facts about the given drug to support your claim. There are many natural chemicals/drugs that organisms produce around the world that have the potential to produce more harm than many synthetic chemicals, and vis versa.

Yes I use psychedelics for personal growth, but I don't and will not use them as a tool to see the gods, or as a spiritual gate way.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

Ya that is most people's attitude....

"I don't give a fuck about you, the shamans, the cultures which use entheogens or the history behind these amazing plant, I want to get MINE for ME NOW!"

I'm surprised the DMT entities don't whoop your ass.

Do you people ever learn anything from taking entheogens? It seems not.

 

[Coolio]

Why should we give a fuck if our actions lead to government repression? We're doing the right thing. The government is in the wrong. We shouldn't stop doing what we're doing because it's illegal.

To keep it on the down low like you suggest is not going to help you win any support for your cause. You can't keep secret about it, you have to stand up for your fucking rights and be visible.

 

[greenmeanies]

teotzl, what are you doing to help?

are you collecting and germinating viable seeds of M. hostilis and T. peruvianus in order to propagate the species? are you teaching people the proper mindset in which to use these entheogens? are you disseminating information about how to safely and sustainably collect materials for shamanic use? are you petitioning your congressman to consider the absurdity of making living breathing plants illegal? are you calling up chinese RC factories and telling them how much bad karma they're going to get for synthing DOI?

or are you just riding your high horse in a circle because you are clearly gifted with a higher plane of experience than us commoners "fiending for a fix" ?

i thought one of the biggest revelations that a psychedelic experience can give to a person is the idea that we are all in this together. everyone cries, laughs, and bleeds the same. stop alienating those you are trying to teach.

 

[Coolio]

What do you have against DOI? I much prefer it to LSD.

 

[Cloudy]

Why should I hold a shamans experience with a drug above my own? Why is their culture more important than the experiences that can be created in my (not the shamans) brain by using these drugs.

My DMT experiences reflects myself and my physical being. It has nothing to do with a culture that existed/exists elsewhere in the world. I have nothing against them, and I admire the culture that they have created. This doesn't mean I should be void of experiencing a beautiful chemical that exists on earth and is designed to alter the physiology of specific organisms (a structure similar to serotonin).

Step off your high and mighty horse. Your way isn't the only way around the block. Your experiences aren't the peak of societies. We all use psychedelics in our own manner. Sure some people are irresponsible, but that irresponsibility of a few shouldn't effect those who use psychedelics responsibly (not even for 'spiritual purposes').

I say there is no wrong way to take a psychedelic if you avoid danger to others.

Why didn't the elves whoop my ass? My brain will whoop my ass when ever it needs to be done. Nothing like a dark introspective trip to show you another perspective.

 

[greenmeanies]

^ i was trying to make a point, LSD could be considered almost as synthetic as DOI anyway...

sounds like teotzl is against anything that isn't borne directly from gaia's womb, and the idea of synthetic materials is "poison" to him... let's hope he's not wearing any polyester, or needs semisynthetic antibiotics to knock down an infection. and watch out for computers, they're full of PLASTIC o noes!

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

The only reason plants are safer is because they have such a long history of human use.

LSD-25 is a good example of a safe synthetic entheogen which doesn't come from nature. However... I personally won't use it because of the unreliability of getting real LSD-25 and due to the fact that it only has a short history of human usage.

All plants are not safe... only those with long histories of human usage which indicates they are safe. So things like Datura and Brugmansia obviously are not safe, but things like Peyote and Ayahuasca are.

are you collecting and germinating viable seeds of M. hostilis and T. peruvianus in order to propagate the species?

Good lord man! Don't you know who I am! Read my posts at the DMT-Nexus or the Corroboree!

That is everything I'm about... growing the plants and spreading the plants!

are you petitioning your congressman to consider the absurdity of making living breathing plants illegal?

I helped keep Salvia divinorum legal in a certain U.S. state.

I'm a mod at *a source site*.

I'm going to school specifically for ethnobotany and related subject.

are you disseminating information about how to safely and sustainably collect materials for shamanic use

I have over 30,000 online posts.

i thought one of the biggest revelations that a psychedelic experience can give to a person is the idea that we are all in this together. everyone cries, laughs, and bleeds the same. stop alienating those you are trying to teach.

I just see the extraction of things like San Pedro and Mimosa as leading down a bad path... a path to criminalization. If we grow the plants and use them safely and responsibly we can "fly below the radar".

Extraction labs for DMT and such look like meth labs... they really do to the average person, we just don't need that connected to plant spirituality. I'm sorry.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

It's not "my way is better and yours isn't" this is about legality and social perception... if we want to make a positive impact we need to be intelligent and think about what we are doing...

Perhaps you SHOULD be able to run down the street butt naked painted blue and covered in feathers while smoking pure synthetic N,N-DMT... BUT is that going to help our cause? What is that going to do to the public perception of entheogens? At this point in time we need to be aware that our individual actions have far reaching consequences.

Normally I'd agree with most of you who would just say "FUCK THOSE PEOPLE" but this is just too important...

I believe that each of us have a DUTY to protect these plants, it blows my mind that people can have entheogenic experiences with cactus and ayahuasca and not want to grow the plants... that was the first message I got! The Holy Cactus spoke to me "PROTECT ME, SHARE ME, CHERISH ME, LOVE THY EARTH FROM WHICH YOU ARE BORE, PROTECT IT, SHARE IT, CHERISH IT".

Don't you understand?! Don't you understand that the plants contain the compounds you hold so dear (well... most of them any) if the plants are legal then we will always have access to the sacred realm of entheogenic experience! BUT if we lose the plants... or the plants become illegal... we will no longer have simple access to the divine.

THIS GIFT IS SIMPLY TO PRECIOUS, WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSS IT!

 

[Delsyd]

Teo, you do seem to have a complex where you think your way is the right way.
There is no right way.

The shamans and the history of these plants is important. But that does not discredit the value of synthetic or extracted psychedelics.

And quit being so full of yourself. I dont care how many posts you have on other forums or that you are a mod of YOUR OWN forum.
Why not mention how many forums you have been banned from.

Dude, you can share your views and beliefs here. But dont act as if its the absolute truth.

As for plant psyhcs being safer because of centuries of use. Well i have a friend who has had seizures several times on mushrooms yet LSD, 2c-b and many other snythetics treat him quite well.

the whole natural vs. synthetic argument doesnt hold up well here.

peace man.

 

[Delsyd]

...if these plants become illegal they will still be available, though harder to obtain.

Think of RC's or marijuana, or any drugs. Legal or not, they are obtainable.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

A meth lab looks like a DMT lab because, well, it IS a lab. "We" don't need what connected to meth? Pieces of glass and tubing?



A chemical is a chemical is a chemical. There is nothing wrong with meth.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

And quit being so full of yourself. I dont care how many posts you have on other forums or that you are a mod of YOUR OWN forum.

I'm admin at my forum and a mod at Salvia Source.

Why not mention how many forums you have been banned from.

Haha, hell ya, it's right there on my forum, check it out!

I've been banned from a number of them!

A meth lab looks like a DMT lab because, well, it IS a lab. "We" don't need what connected to meth? Pieces of glass and tubing?

Ok, tell the public that.

A chemical is a chemical is a chemical. There is nothing wrong with meth.

Haha, ya ok.

..if these plants become illegal they will still be available, though harder to obtain.

Think of RC's or marijuana, or any drugs. Legal or not, they are obtainable.

Duh, which would turn them into street drugs, impure, terrible quality and make a bunch of people who just want to practice plant-religion into criminals.

 

[Delsyd]

First of all a dmt "lab" consists of a couple jars and a turkey baster. I think a meth lab is a little more complicated.

A chemical is a chemical is a chemical. There is nothing wrong with meth.

Nothing wrong with the chemical itself. But the way people tend to use it and its effect on those people isnt so great.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

There is no right way.

No there is not... not in philosophy.

But if we wish to have anything like peyote or ayahuasca legalized, then we must take a certain path.

I wish to be a legitimate citizen, I pay my taxes, I want to contribute to society, but I also want to eat peyote and drink Ayahuasca and not have to worry about the government coming to get me.

I don't think all drugs should be legal. I think living plants and viable seeds should always be legal, but beyond that, things are fair game for illegalization.