Ololiuqui - First time with this species - The True, Dream-like Spirit of Ololiuqui

[Piper methysticum]

Thursday June 4th 2009

Prelude

I have plenty of experience with LSA containing seeds, especially Morning Glory (Ipomoea violacea). I have predominantly used the Heavenly Blue variety, though I have used Flying Saucer and Pearly Gates seeds as well. Also, with less profound experiences, I have used Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Argyreia nervosa). This is the first time I have finally got around to experimenting with those that have the most historic use. I now understand why, though overall, the effects aren?€™t what I would consider an intense type of entheogenic experience.

With Morning Glory, (the first LSA containing seeds I?€™ve worked with), I have had most surreal experiences that reach intensity levels beyond that of LSD, though in my opinion, they couldn?€™t be used recreationally as some people tend to use LSD. LSA?€™s have LSD-like qualities, but overall, there is something almost Mescaline-like about it considering the surreal quality of the visuals/visions and the manner in which the effects peak.

I have been affected by moderate stimulation, intense and very surreal visionary experiences, as well as some of the most euphoric body feelings I?€™ve had with any drugs. Although, during the tail end of the experience, I tend to experience racing thoughts and anxiety that usually requires me to take a low dose of a benzodiazepine such as 0.25-0.5mg of alprazolam. This isn?€™t the typical, natural ?€œfear,?€ that usually allows you to undergo a thereputic effect but rather, an unnerving side effect. Although, I find that the positive effects outweigh the negatives when I am in the mood for LSA?€™s. I use LSA containing seeds roughly once a year now.

With Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, I find the experience less spiritual in nature with more toxic side effects including moderate to strong stomach discomfort, whereas with Morning Glory the stomach discomfort is mild for me. I have had worthwhile experiences with them, but in general, I prefer not to eat them even though it is far less expensive and being far more easy to ingest 6-12 seeds to produce strong effects. There is no documentation of recorded history of traditional use of them, like there is of other LSA containing plants.


Story

With my background stated, I?€™ll start by expressing my desire to try the LSA-containing seed that has the most use in recorded history, yet there is little said or known of them. It is difficult to find information about them, and there are very little reports from forums and collective, information websites such as Erowid. I found most of my information from random pieces of Internet information, including the article on Entheology.org, and from my ?€œEncyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants?€ book. All of this ?€œblank?€ just made me more curious, so with seeds that I had recently acquired and my knowledge of traditional dosing as well as alkaloid content, my best friend and I decided to ingest 60 seeds.

Like other LSA experiences, we both started noticing something of an onset very soon after taking the well-ground seeds. The effects were not very typical of most of my Morning Glory or HBW experiences. With these, I felt a pronounced stimulation of thought and my perception of color was very slightly altered. Lights were mildly bright, yet at about an hour and a half after ingestion, we both kept thinking that the experience might get intense because of the ?€œtoo low of a dose?€sensation. This was normally a warning sign for me that things were going to get wild, but with this, it never developed into a full blown, entheogenic experience.

After a couple of hours, I could tell the effects had reached a peak. Time was drastically slowed, though nothing was really going on. Music sounded quite good, I felt oddly relaxed, and mildly social. It was time to go outside. We started a fire and I decided to sit near and meditate on closed eye vision, silent beside the natural surroundings. I was beginning to feel sedated in mind, and from these waves of body pleasure, came mild, dream-like patterns and visions. I noticed a very profound analgesic effect. My back, which was starting to hurt before ingestion, was numb. The physical and some of the psychological effects almost reminded me of Opium with a certain difference of thought patterns. Obviously, it wasn?€™t near as comfortable either, but that is the first thing that I thought of.

I had the tendency to drift off into my imagination, and with closed eyes, I embraced the dream-like effects. I was seeing the fire, still in my mind, with the four tiki torches behind it and the vibe of nature around me when I opened my eyes to find that I was back inside smoking the Cannabis I had planned to hit while the full effects of the drug were working. Normally, I leave an entheogen to do what it will without the intervention of herb, but with my previous LSA experiences, I know that it is an essential for me.

This caused no profound change in effect. Everything just blended in. At one point, I was sitting again with eyes closed and I drifted into a very dream-like vision. Everything was dark, and a wolf appeared in the light of my visual field. A flash came and everything was gone except for the destruction of natural life the wolf caused around me. It was quite strange, surreal, and even unnerving, though I wouldn?€™t have called it anything like a bad dream or nightmare sequence.

After a good while of listening to music and having conversation (about four hours after ingestion), I noticed that the intoxication was getting heavy. It then started reminding me of being intoxicated from alcohol in a way. My mind was lethargic but aware, and my body was reacting more like the aftermath of a moderate drinking episode. I could watch myself behave in an odd manner. The analgesic/narcotic type effects were still apparent, but I could grasp at this point the purpose of such an experience though maybe not quite the meaning behind mine, if there is any.

At that point, I chose to enjoy life as I normally would with music and food. I could have went into a dark room for the duration of the experience, and I may have had strange visions or possibly even fell asleep in my lethargic state, having many dreams out of the ordinary. However, though I can see how these seeds were probably used, I think there is something private and secret about the cultures that used them. Honestly, despite their somewhat high price tag, I don?€™t see why people that know a bit about LSA containing seeds haven?€™t tried them. They seem to lack what one would be looking for in an entheogenic experience, but the body feeling is quite euphoric, even numbing. There is also no stomach cramping or discomfort at all.

Personally, I am very glad to have tried them the way I did, but I do not see reason for further exploration. I think a higher dose would cause unwanted side effects. I took the right dose; it just wasn?€™t the proper substance for me. However, I still would like to know how and why some tribes hold these sacred seeds in a higher esteem than Mescaline containing cacti.

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_riveacorymbosa
substancecode_ethnobotanicals
substancecode_lsa
substancecode_lysergamides
explevel_firsttime
exptype_positive
roacode_oral

 

[Propyl Power]

Thank you, this is an excellent report!

You really don't think it would be worth trying again at a higher dose? Your description fairly oozes with potential, and plants can sometimes take a while to unfold themselves...

 

[Piper methysticum]

^^^

It would definitely be worth it for some people, but for me personally, no. At least not at this point in my life.

At the dose I took, I had a typical experience of what those seeds offer. They aren't meant to be eaten in really high doses. Anything over 100 seeds wouldn't more than likely produce negative side effects.

 

[Xorkoth]

How do you know this? Is it just how you feel after trying them? Not saying this would make your thoughts invalid at all. I just wondered if you know of any evidence that a higher dose would manifest negative side-effects when the dose you took did not.

As you say, some cultures held these in higher esteem than mescaline-cacti.

 

[Piper methysticum]

^^^

Honestly, now that I've had time to reevaluate the experience, I have been thinking and feeling a little bit different about it. I believe it is something that I would have to do alone. I looked up more on the traditional use of them, and there are no documents stating that these were used in any groups. The Shaman used a dose of Ololiuqui, and he received visions to teach his tribe.

I am considering using them again at a slightly higher dose while at home alone at night. The writing about how I felt that a higher dose would increase side effects came from other reports, the few studies I've read about them, and my own evaluation, having plenty of experience with entheogens.

For myself, I am certain that any more than 80 seeds would produce more intoxication than anything profound. I do not think that these were meant to be taken in large doses, but I am not saying that the experience with doses of under 100 seeds would not under certain circumstances produce a full psychedelic experience.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Fascinating report, yet disappointing. Glad to see you may reevaluate. I 'cut my teeth' so to speak on the brother (Tlilitzin) and this plant has always appealed to me, and is on my to-do list.

These must be potent seeds, or rather...all of the Ipomoea violacea I ate were bred for flowers and not seed potency...their Mexican relatives are shown to be twice the potency of Turbina corymbosa (testing wild-caught seeds) but the ones I ate required at least 100 for good effects, closer to 250 for 'full tripping' dosage.

I would love to know what wild-caught Ipomoea violacea is like (only a thimble-full is needed).