• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

okay, time to admit it. I'm scared I have screwed my brain

johanneschimpo said:
we are all directionless, hopeless, etc

That's untrue. Although many people are.

streetsurfer, I think that therapy would be the very best thing for you. But take this for what you will; it's been ym experience.

I was quite depressed although for different reasons than you. It had been building for years, and during the years of 20-21, it reached its peak. I was a real mess. I mean, I was entirely unmotivated, lost, hopeless, directionless. I felt anxiety gnawing away at me 24 hours a day. I normally don't need much sleep and get an average of 6 hours a night; however, during this time I was sleeping 9 to 10 hours a day. I just felt so hopeless and pointless. Everything in my life was suffering.

Then I underwent some personal psychedelic therapy, which is not what I'm suggesting but I guess I should include. This helped me to come to terms with what was going on and kick myself out of it. However, it didn't keep it away. Then I discovered nootropics, particularly hydergine and piracetam. This doesn't work for everyone, but for me, it was an absolute godsend. For the first 4 weeks of taking the combination of 4.5mg hydergine and 800-1000mg piracetam every morning, I was absolutely euphoric every day. I no longer felt anxiety or had mood swings, and I once again felt comfortable in my own skin. After that, it dropped off to just feeling normal. Ever since, I no longer have pointless mood swings. I get sad or upset when something directly causes it, like you should, but but I no longer just wake up feeling like I want to die for no reason at all. At this point I've been on them for quite a while and I continue taking them often because of their cognitive and neuroprotective benefits, but when I stop, I'm also fine. I was able to totally kick myself out of a depression. The other factor, I believe, was age - I'm no longer in that rough transition period of my life. I'm guessing you are, though.

Hydergine has been found to regulate levels of serotonin and dopamine in the brain, working to keep them at a happy medium. If it's too low, it works to raise them, and if it's too high, it works to lower them into balance. Both hydergine and piracetam have a wide variety of beneficial and protective effects on the brain. If you're interested, you should really look into it. Also, they're easy to obtain from overseas, although hydergine is not obtainable in the US. But it's also not controlled. Plus, piracetam is dirt cheap, and hydergine is cheaper than most meds.

As I said, the thing you really need is to work through these issues with a therapist or on your own, and get to the root of the problem. But there's nothing wrong with a little help, and in my experience, I've found hydergine and to a lesser extent piracetam (although the combination is quite synergistic and recommended) to be really great helpers, which have very, very few side effects. I don't experience any, but some experience a light headache and some morning nausea for a few weeks using hydergine, which usually goes away. Piracetam can cause a headache, also, but if you take a choline supplement like lecithin with it, it's not going to happen.
 
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Xorkoth said:
Then I discovered nootropics, particularly hydergine and piracetam.

Hmmmm, very interesting. I'm taking those as well along with selegiline. While I'm convince the selegiline is what brought be back from the grave, the others seem to be working wonders for my thinking. The worst part of my depression was the loss of my thinking. I would spend half a day trying to put together the sequence of thoughts required to get up and go get a soda out of the refrigerator. And once I got the confidence to do it, if the slightest distraction interrupted my process, I would collapse in a puddle of anger an confusion. All my life I couldn't speed read. Now I can. If I back off the selegline I start to relapse into depression and parkinsonism. But maybe I should be giving more credit to the hydergine and piracetam . . . especially since hydergine is yet another wonder drug derived from ergot.
 
That's how I've always been, even before I ad ever even KNOWN about drugs.
Don't worry.
 
streetsurfer said:
I was on sodium valproate with the dex but the dose just kept getting higher and higher and (I don't know if this is real or my imagination) I was sure my stomach became distended rather than just put on weight. But yeah, when I first tried it it worked well.

But the trouble with Dex like I mentioned is I just can not control my use. I always end up staying up all night working popping em, take the week to recover then do it again.

That said I had a massive psychological breakthrough in regards to one of my relationships the first night I went back on it. .... I dunno

As for selegiline over dex, Dex won't make u live longer like selegiline does for one. It also kills the dex effect if u take it at the end of the day.

ha! that is funny hearing that from you who posts so many unhappy messages - why the HELL would you want to live to be a 100 !!!!!!

do you really think life at 80 is going to be any better than now ???????
go to any 'old persons' retirement home - they are fucking AWFUL - old lonely people just waiting around to die.

if DEX improves my life ALOT and takes 10 years off my life, then I am totally fine with that. Thats a bargain in my opinion.

I have mixed MANY drugs (too many) over the last 10 years, and i still think from experience, and everything i read, that mixing DEX and Selegeline is not smart IN THE LONG RUN. Both change your brain chemistry in long term, ( i know because i have tried them both for month +) and who knows what it is doing to your dopamine system - i guess down regulating it ALOT !
 
streetsurfer said:
Is this just bipolar 2 pure and simple? I wake up in the morning with some inane song I heard on playschool 10 years ago doing laps in my head, fatigue totally wrecks me even with out drugs, makes me more manic as above.

Why don't I get a happy manic, seriously?

because you are on Selegeline - that drug totally took away all my euphoria full stop. And because you never give your self a break from drugs. If you go 'straight' for 1 month with no drugs (including cigarettes and caffeiene, ect) you will get high again 'naturally'.

a good bi-polar friend of mine (for 12 years) is depressed MOST of the time, and only manically happy about 5% of the time, and i suspect that is pretty normal for most Bi-Polar type 1's
 
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Gldm said:
Sounds like low dopamine levels to me. The whole sitting around not doing thing that is. I had that problem for a long time before I started wellbutrin. If your case is the same, an SSRI won't do jack (believe me I know), since you need an SDRI.

Maybe your levels are just low due to having been artificially elevated for so long. It might take a while for things to level out again on their own.

Wellbutrin increases Noradrenaline overall, not dopamine.

There are plenty of articles showing this.
 
Dr. Beat said:
Wellbutrin increases Noradrenaline overall, not dopamine.

There are plenty of articles showing this.

I always thought that wellbutrin was a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor as well as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

To the OP you do sound depressed. Ive been depressed as fuck at different times in my life and i could barely make it out of bed. Id end up sleeping most of the day away. You should definitely try and get some treatment before too much time passes.

There are times when ive had hypomanic episodes as well, and sometimes ive been really agitated and depressed at the same time so ive been wondering if i have some form of bipolar. But who knows self diagnoses is kinda useless.
 
i thought tardive dyskenesia was more of a problem with phenothiazine-type anti-psychotics?
 
streetsurfer --

Boy I hear you. I am a diagnosed schizophrenic, 39 years old. I have tried every combination of drugs you can imagine, including boosting that ritalin with selegiline. That particular combo made me think I had solved the underlying mathematic of the entire universe. I am an actor/screenwriter who has also spent his entire existence attempting to attenuate the mental anguish associated with total depersonalization.

I'm high every single day. And I mean every day. I will dump a bottle of Zicam (540mg DXM) in the morning if I know there are no other drugs available to me on that particular day, just to get out of bed.

The type of depression/depersonalization we suffer from is difficult to cure. I have resigned myself to the fact that I will self medicate for the duration of my life, every chance I get.

But the light that brings healing burns the eyes.

Curiously, I find that there is satisfaction from completion of a creative task -- and indeed this is the only happiness I find, but it is vital and alive, and enough. Drugs keep me out of pain. I am not ashamed of that fact, for if a pill turns Friday from the sixth seventh of a weariness into a delightful stormy night then I say eat that pill, baby.

Ecstasy and oxycodone provide a temporary womb wherein I can recover enough -- just enough -- to recognize the beautiful things that surround me.

Is that so bad?

Perhaps you can find solace in writing -- I have had the good fortune of seeing one of my screenplays realized...you seem to have the aptitude for it. Creating realities is my singular function...and I seem to adhere to the hedonistic imperative in the meanwhile.

I trudge through abstinence for weeks at a time before returning to drugs like opioids...I am currently on a long haitus from opioids (tolerance bitch) so DXM is the crappy replacement for now. My favorite is GHB, I have none at the moment, but when I have it I seem to function at a very high level. My creative output is prodigous when I my brain is marinating in GHB, especially with a small amount of DXM or MDMA in the mix.

So I look forward to that day when I wil ingest the chemical substrates of pleasure...soon now, maybe two weeks, and I can cross that channel.
 
ha! that is funny hearing that from you who posts so many unhappy messages - why the HELL would you want to live to be a 100 !!!!!!

Hey, Fuck u bitch......no wait maybe u have a point.......oh I'm so confused 8o ;)
 
Dr. Beat said:
Another thing: if you take Dex in high dose's (30mg +) every day it LOWERS dopamine and makes you feel flat and serious.

Flat, serious, emotionless - no depression, etc. robot.
correct.


Originally Posted by streetsurfer [COLOR="DarkOrchid" said:
I can't plan anything without stimulant drugs. I will just screw around on the net wasting time, or wonder around town thinking what I need to organise my life.

I can't prioritise to clean my room. I just look at the mess and feel overwhelmed by it[/COLOR]

When I take a dose of dex I can do this stuff and funtion, a larger dose and all of a sudden I go "Oh shit! There all all these things I need to get done and here I am just twiddling my thumbs and immidiately spring into action.

That is the result of long-term and/or consistent daily use - at inconsistent doses.

It is not depression, or misdirection, or hopelessness. becaues that is a thought proccess..that really doesn't apply.


The symptoms, are the misconception that the dex is needed.
The problem, is you want to get things done. and that you know taking it - seems like your getting stuff accomplished.
Until later.

I havn't been around this forum in months... (a dumb anxiety effect about going into the past).

But, as it has always been.. I have lived off of it for a few years now.
360 5mg ir/month.

Xanax is my lord and savior - as i always take a low dose with my dex. it is an amazing balance, to aid it.


Regardless, the thought processes and situation you explain is exactly how it once was with me.



What i have been able to do, Is only take 5-10mg before work.. maybe 5mg at lunch. becaues a low dose is where the effectiveness is. and they i forget about them.


Each night, like you mentioned.. i just start eating them. don't count anymore. just grab a handful. won't even get out of bed.. just click on the net.
Unlike your situation however, wether sober, low dose, or high dose..
the ability to actually get up and do something like organize a room or clean is only something i can think about "trying to do"


its been awhile, and i'm not even familar with that other drug your taking.


But it is obvious, you fell into the dex loop. which is basicallly...this whole scenario. where you know more of it doesn't help.. but at the timie you need stuff done faster.. so you eat them anyways.. everytime.


How to make it all normal in every aspect again.. eh...never able to think about it .
beyond the stage of worry, it is wh at it is.

I't would be like heaven, if they effected me like those stereotypes cleaning ;p
energy etc.

since i go through the 360 in less then 3 weeks.. i usually go about 5 days a month sober from it completely. breaks from it - work wonders for a personality break.

-syn
 
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SS.

If you can't stick to the prescribed doses - I suggest you stop taking Dex. Period. You will end up doing yourself more harm than good otherwise.

Saying you NEED stimulants to do stuff is a cop out. If you teach yourself to focus on menial things that need to be done you WILL find a way. It's a matter of getting into the habit of self-dicipline. If anything, people with adult ADD can focus on things better than most people when they 'give it their best shot' and learn to recognise when they're distracted.

If you're having trouble with Dex - try Wellbutrim (bupropion sp?) - it helps some with ADD and is an antidepressant as well.

IMHO, Unless you have other conditions - lay off the dopamine stimulants. Combining them is asking for episodes of mental illness.
 
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Dude, that is so not fair and untrue.
I just wallow around until the urgency of a situation compells me to act via adrenilin.
As for the little things that could make a big differnce to my life, well, they don't get done.
I honest to god give myself the best chance, I exercise most days, I eat better than anyone I have met, but I keep finind myself standing in my room daydreaming about BULLSHIT!
Don't tell me its disipline, u don't know what ur fuckin talkin about
 
BilZ0r said:
I'd drop the selegiline and maybe think about an SSRI (although have you said that you've tried SSRIs before?)

You're obviously depressed...

and then get stuck to them and get hit with loads of side-effects..

yeahh SSRI's really rock 8) , when will you people learn that SSRI's don't cure jack shit but rather HIDE the problems...guess what happens if you try to withdrawal from them (considered as hard as getting rid of a hard drug btw..)....

SSRI's don't make miracles...
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=4221992#post4221992
 
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streetsurfer said:
I just wallow around until the urgency of a situation compells me to act via adrenilin.
As for the little things that could make a big differnce to my life, well, they don't get done.

Exactly my problem too. Except for going to uni and doing the absolute necessities, I essentially waste all my time with the computer. Very little social life, etc. etc.

I've been obsessing a lot about whether this is a biological or a psychologial/discipline problem. I'm tending towards the former but then again, I can't really trust myself on the matter, because I *want* it to be biological.

My experience with stimulants (other than caffeine) is limited to a little experimentation; they seemed to fix the motivational and social problems while they were active. I like to dream about how taking them daily would solve everything (not automatically of course, but give me the *ability* to change things), but judging from your and other peoples experiences, this expectation is apparently very unrealistic...


Edit: Sorry, my posting is not exactly on topic for "advanced drug discussion", but I thought as a reply it would be ok?
 
streetsurfer said:
Dude, that is so not fair and untrue.
I just wallow around until the urgency of a situation compells me to act via adrenilin.
As for the little things that could make a big differnce to my life, well, they don't get done.
I honest to god give myself the best chance, I exercise most days, I eat better than anyone I have met, but I keep finind myself standing in my room daydreaming about BULLSHIT!
Don't tell me its disipline, u don't know what ur fuckin talkin about

I dont know what I'm talking about ? - mate, I've BEEN there..

* Prescribed Dex in my late teens to help me focus on schoolwork/ menial stuff.
* Began upping the doses to see what happened.
* The Dex became less effective at helping the attention/concentration thru the week from the binging. This made conditions ripe to become a depressed, unemotional, unmotivated robot - much like you have quoted above.
* Slowly but surely became addicted to them (was in denial at the time). This cycle of binging and recovery went on for YEARS, until I became fed up of going around around and around in circles.

I'm not denying that small amounts of stimulants can help those with bad ADD/ADHD do the boring stuff that happens each day.

What has happened of late is people have been putting themselves in a box and looking for pills to fix things that CAN be minimised by their own efforts.

See, the kids / people that need stimulants the most are usually the ones who couldn't be bothered going through the hoops to get the prescriptions in the first place.

There are other ways to do menial stuff without drugs. Like if you are a visual person - write a few post it notes to remind you of the task at hand. Write lists - they help also.

Don't eat sugary food - it easier to get distracted when sugar-hyped.

When you've got things to do don't LET yourself wallow around in an unfocussed state. Keep busy.Coax yourself to STAY ON TRACK and get it over with - then you CAN stuff around with more interesting things...

Self-dicipline is like any other habit. It's ALL practice...

There is stacks more info out there on the net - it is up to you to make the effort to make this handicap into a gift, and believe me it IS a gift... it just won't happen if you keep relying on other things (like drugs).

The other thing is, poor concentration can be a symptom of DEPRESSION, when combined with the other symptoms you describe. Be HONEST with yourself and your doctor.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear - but someone's got to say it...
 
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Yeas, i too belive it is a gift but one that has also caused me alot of pain

Something to consider also is that 70% of the time, ADHD is comorbid with bipolar 2 (I can't find where I got that figure right now sorry)
It is all well and good putting stratagies and processes into place but when you have a manic or a big depressive episode, it throws all those things to shit. After your well again it can take ages to reimpliment them, if at all

http://winningwithadd.com/

Have you read "the edison Trait" ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...7649/ref=pd_bbs_3/103-7763729-5650216?ie=UTF8
 
If you don't have pure ADD/ADHD, again, I suggest you stop taking drugs that stimulate dopamine systems (psychostimulants, selegiline, some anti parkinson drugs etc). I say so with respect for your own good.

They may make most forms of mental illness worse.

They may destabilise someone with bipolar disorder, making them manic.
They may make someones obsessions/ anxiety worse.
They do not help someone with depression or depressive tendincies.
They may worsen neuroses and psychotic tendincies.

I don't have references backing the above up - please feel free to support or debunk these.

EDIT: After reading other threads I've changed my mind:

I STRONGLY suggest you throw away ALL your dopamine medication and take a month or two holiday. It's the only way to get a better perspective.

Near the end of that holiday, take a good hard look at yourself and what you've been doing.

The dopamine meds may be causing your problems...
 
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