okay, time to admit it. I'm scared I have screwed my brain

[streetsurfer]

I heqar what your saying but I dunno wot to do. The last time I went compleately clean of meds some years back I got really manic and suicidal. I am really worried about this tardive dyskenisa, it is supposed to be related to oxitive damage and I find that now I get it worse and worse compared to the past. I don't want to fuck up my brains moreso.

Dex doesn't cause it (I think) so what is left, take a MAOI? I dunno. Is that ritalin combo neurotox do u think?

 

[Dyno_oz]

I heqar what your saying but I dunno wot to do. The last time I went compleately clean of meds some years back I got really manic and suicidal. I am really worried about this tardive dyskenisa, it is supposed to be related to oxitive damage and I find that now I get it worse and worse compared to the past. I don't want to fuck up my brains moreso.

Dex doesn't cause it (I think) so what is left, take a MAOI? I dunno. Is that ritalin combo neurotox do u think?

People with ADD have no problem stopping stimulant medication.

There's a good chance you will go into a depressive stage if you are bipolar - speed addicts generally get crabby and depressed when they stop.

Unless you have long-term psychotic episodes treated with old-school antipsychotics, Tardive Dyskensia is a non-issue.

Also, keep all forms of sexual activity down to once every 7 days or less often - it has been clinically shown that oversexed people tend to become depressed.

As you are recovering, it's a good idea to get in touch with someone in the mental health/ councelling profession. They can help you if you let them.

Finally, I suggest you eat lots of salad, fruit & veges. Boring I know, but they have above average levels of L-Tryptophan - a serotonin forming amino acid - which naturally buffers depression.

Best of luck.

 

[streetsurfer]

(1)

People with ADD have no problem stopping stimulant medication.

That is a gross generalisation that I don't think is even right as I recall a news article recently saying that many struggle with dependence. I did

(2)

Unless you have long-term psychotic episodes treated with old-school antipsychotics, Tardive Dyskensia is a non-issue.

Maybe its not tardive dyskenesia but I definettly get momement disorder from SSRI's and Akathesia's. They are excusiating, double me up, debilitate me. Prozac gives it to me when I take even a quarter dose, effexor when it is wearing off. So So So awful.

(3)

Also, keep all forms of sexual activity down to once every 7 days or less often - it has been clinically shown that oversexed people tend to become depressed

I try hard to jerk off once a week just to keep it working. Usually I can't even manage that. I have ZERO labido.

(4)

Finally, I suggest you eat lots of salad, fruit & veges. Boring I know, but they have above average levels of L-Tryptophan - a serotonin forming amino acid - which naturally buffers depression.

I do almost all my shopping at the green grocers, I eat mostly steamed and stir fried vegetables of all types, people spin the fuck out when they see how I eat. I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

But thanx

 

[BilZ0r]

I think SSRIs are great. You just need to find the right one at the right dose, that doesn't give you side effects. I don't even notice side effects from the citalopram I'm on, apart from the increased sexual stamina.

So what if SSRIs only hide the problems? Essentially all neuropharmacologicals do. Antipsychotics, antiparkinsonians, anxiolytics.... Opioids just hide the pain, but if I get my leg cut off, it's not going to stop me asking for morphine.

Only a tiny fraction of drugs actually cure the underlying cause of a disorder (antibiotics are about the only one I can think of).

and then get stuck to them and get hit with loads of side-effects..

yeahh SSRI's really rock 8) , when will you people learn that SSRI's don't cure jack shit but rather HIDE the problems...guess what happens if you try to withdrawal from them (considered as hard as getting rid of a hard drug btw..)....

SSRI's don't make miracles...
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=4221992#post4221992

 

[paranoid android]

Ive always been nervous about ssri's that is one reason why ive never been on one. I do know people that have been on ssri's though and it changed their life for the better.

I was on effexor a snri and it completely ruined my sex drive. I was only taking it for anxiety but that side effect actually made me depressed.

Thats one thing i like about amitriptyline it doesn't cause any sexual side effects for me whatsoever. Most people hate the side effects of tricyclics but i dont find them bad at all.

All anti-depressants and just about every psychiatric med out there just cover up the problem but that is certainly no reason not to take them. Im certainly alot more functional on an anti-depressant then i am without one. Id probley be dead by now if it wasn't for amitriptyline.

Ive heard that just covering the problem up excuse for chronic pain many times. Ive had many people and even doctors say painkillers just cover up the problem. My reply is always if you can fix the problem right now more power to you, but since you can't could you atleast give me some meds to stop me from freaking out from the pain.

 

[BilZ0r]

^ The sleepyness from amitrip is a fucking joke. Try desipramine or imipramine...

 

[OsterHase]

I think SSRIs are great. You just need to find the right one at the right dose, that doesn't give you side effects. I don't even notice side effects from the citalopram I'm on, apart from the increased sexual stamina.

So what if SSRIs only hide the problems? Essentially all neuropharmacologicals do. Antipsychotics, antiparkinsonians, anxiolytics.... Opioids just hide the pain, but if I get my leg cut off, it's not going to stop me asking for morphine.

Only a tiny fraction of drugs actually cure the underlying cause of a disorder (antibiotics are about the only one I can think of).

SSRI's are great? WTF

And that "low dosage" to avoid side-effects doesn't exist...

it seems you just started taking them more than anything, come again when you see how much they fucked with your life...

posts like this are unresponsible to say the least...I mean COME ON...gezzz

 

[streetsurfer]

^^

Firstly, I hate SSRI's with a passion but I take one (venlafaxine) cos it is the only thing that really improves my quality of life and belive me I have tried EVERYTHING.

Secondly, Blizor is a senior moderator in advanced drug discussion, disagree with him sure but to insinuate he is ignorent in his opinion is frankly, irgnorent.

thirdly, lower doses do typically have less side effects, not none, but less. That said some lucky mutherfuckers can pop em for years and be fine with no side effects. Me I get fucking awful dyskenesias from them. We are all different

Isn't that right Blitzor Sir?

 

[Dyno_oz]

(1) That is a gross generalisation that I don't think is even right as I recall a news article recently saying that many struggle with dependence. I did ...

All the more reason to throw them out. If you have poor self-control, having them there is a temptation. I struggled with this afterward also, thinking I'll use them only 'for a purpose' - but memories of the binges made the cravings come back BAD. I'm not saying it won't work for you, but it didn't work for me.

What did ? Years of not having them on hand.

(2) Maybe its not tardive dyskenesia but I definettly get momement disorder from SSRI's and Akathesia's. They are excusiating, double me up, debilitate me. Prozac gives it to me when I take even a quarter dose, effexor when it is wearing off. So So So awful.

Having restless legs every now and then is no big deal. Lots of people have it and causes them no pain.

I'd rather be treated for depression and have restless legs than be a depressed fuck with no energy at all.

(3) I try hard to jerk off once a week just to keep it working. Usually I can't even manage that. I have ZERO labido.

I REALLY didn't need to know that

Look - you know you have a problem with these meds.. they may be causing more problems than they are treating.

Maybe you need to go around in circles a few more times to realise that you are making your life worse by what you are doing, I don't know.

I can't make you stop taking them - you will have to decide that for yourself.

PS: Sorry for hijacking the thread. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further...

 

[streetsurfer]

Don't trivialise my symptoms, I wouldn't make all these desperate posts on here if it was a bit of restless legs (which I get quite badly)


Tardive Dyskinesia - Symptoms
TD is characterized by coordinated, constant movements of the mouth, tongue, jaw, and cheeks. Jaw movements may be from side-to-side, or they may look like chewing motions. The tongue movements may be squirming or twisting (choreoathetoid). If trunk movements are present, they are typically in the form of rapid forward motions of the lower abdomen and hips (pelvic thrusting) or twisting or flicking movements of the arms and legs. The involuntary abnormal repeated movements of TD may also include lip smacking, cheek puffing, tongue thrusting, finger flicking, and trunk twisting.

That is not fucking restless legs

I havn't had dopamineagenic drugs in about 2 weeks.

 

[OsterHase]

Secondly, Blizor is a senior moderator in advanced drug discussion, disagree with him sure but to insinuate he is ignorent in his opinion is frankly, irgnorent.

Well as a person that does daily research on this particular subject and (sadly) as a SSRI user for almost 4 years I fell in the rigth to call to the attention that posts that incentivate the use of SSRI is irresponsable...

This coming from somebody that problably would be dead by now if it wasn't for them...

I may not know about most of the drugs discussed here, but don't try to make me think I don't know what SSRI's can or cannot do..

thirdly, lower doses do typically have less side effects, not none, but less. That said some lucky mutherfuckers can pop em for years and be fine with no side effects. Me I get fucking awful dyskenesias from them. We are all different

Isn't that right Blitzor Sir?

depends on what you consider lower doses, specialy since there are different types of medication using paxil and with different concentrations...

Plus for you 40mg may be normal while for the person next to you it could be a lot.

Do you want me to make a list of COMMON SSRI's side-effects...just because you aren't (thankfully) suffering/suffered from alot that doesn't make it the norm, on the contrary.

Posts that are pro-something that can deeply fuck with somebodys live shouldn't be taken ligthy...sorry if I actualy care and wish to avoid people going tru what I have...


Also why not talk about how hard and dangerous the withdrawal can and is in most cases?


What was suggested regarding taking this for the rest of your life just to "hide" the pain is cowardly to say the least and is just a way to make yourself go tru life feeling like a zombie in several aspects and realms of your life...

 

[Dyno_oz]

ok, now u get the big Fuck off

Your lack of respect is appaling.

No matter what your condition is - it doesn't give you the right to treat people like that.

Even if you DO have tongue thrusting, lip smacking mannerisms etc, so what?

I know someone who does stuff like that. Most decent, respectful people would see it and think nothing of it.

It doesn't mean that you have Tardive Dyskensia. Nor does it mean you should be taking dopaminergic drugs (like Dex or Selegiline) either...

 

[streetsurfer]

edit
I am just getting pissed off so I will bow out now.
L8r

 

[streetsurfer]

And dude, I appreciate and respect that you are trying to help me, but I feel there is no reception of what I am trying to communicate to you. Peace

 

[streetsurfer]

And you combine dyskenisia with this.

Akathisia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Akathisia ICD-10
ICD-9 781.0, 333.99
Akathisia (or "acathisia") is an often extremely unpleasant subjective sensation of "inner" restlessness that manifests itself with an inability to sit still or remain motionless, hence the origin of its name: Greek a (without) + kathesis (sitting).

Akathisia may range in intensity from a mild sense of disquiet or anxiety (which may be easily overlooked) to a total inability to sit still with overwhelming anxiety and severe dysphoria (manifesting as an almost undescribable sense of terror and doom). In the most severe cases, dysphoria can be so severe that the patient is literally compelled to take action, leading, possibly, to suicide attempts. It is not unknown to have patients literally run out of a hospital or emergency room.

Partially due to the fact that the condition (and its attendant feeling) is difficult for the patient to describe, it is often misdiagnosed and can lead the patient to commit suicide in or outside the hospital. Furthermore, many clinical definitions of akathisia, as studied by psychiatrists and psychologists, may downplay the true psychological gravity of this symptom and simply refer to its psychological effects as "a subjective inner restlessness".

The presence and severity of akathisia can be measured using the Barnes Akathisia Scale.

Contents [hide]
1 Causes
2 Treatment
3 References
4 External links



[edit]
Causes
It is a common side effect of certain drugs, notably:

typical or atypical antipsychotics (also called major tranquilizers), such as haloperidol (Haldol®) and droperidol, olanzapine (Zyprexa®), aripiprazole (Abilify);
SSRIs, such as paroxetine (Paxil®);
tricyclic antidepressants, certain antihistamines, such as promethazine and diphenhydramine (Benadryl®);
and certain anti-emetic drugs, particularly the dopamine blockers (e.g. metoclopramide (Reglan®) and prochlorperazine (Compazine®)).
[edit]
Treatment
Treatment includes the discontinuation or reduction of dose of the causative agent and the use of typical or atypical antipsychotics (also called major tranquilizers) to reduce the agitation and anxiety. Unfortunately, these neuroleptics are often the cause of the condition and are known to cause irreversible akathisia in some cases. While the administration of these drugs may temporarily ameliorate the symptoms, there is a serious risk of worsening the condition over the longterm.

Therefore, some consider the drug of choice for the treatment of akathisia to be propranolol, along with other beta blockers such as metoprolol. The antihistamine cyproheptadine is also effective, though with shorter effect than beta blockers. Second-line treatments include benztropine and benadryl, though excess use of Benadryl may worsen symptoms. Most of the clinical cases of akathisia can be prevented by not administering the drugs that cause the condition.

Recent studies have shown that Vitamin B6 is effective for the treatment of neuroleptic induced akathisia. [1]

[edit]
References
T. R. E. Barnes, "A Rating Scale for Drug-Induced Akathisia", British Journal of Psychiatry, vol 154, pp. 672-676, 1989 Abstract
[edit]
External links
DSM-IV: Neuroleptic Induced Acute Akathisia
Information on successfully treating this nemesis
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia"

 

[streetsurfer]

And I just want to thank all u guys who have supported me and given me advice through all this shit. You have no idea (or maybe u do) of how much of a struggle it has been but things are going ok.
The effexor has lifted my mood heaps. I notice stuff like I'm not scared to go into shops that I for some reason found foreboading (maybe cos of pressure to buy?) and I am alot more comfortable dealing with people in general.
I started my new job today nursing in a rural hospital and it went well and I am looking foreward to it (relitively, still need a new career) rather than being aprehensive about it.
Last night I had a big win over the dyskenesia and akethesia that usually floored me at this time of the evening but there were so many variables that night I am unsure what made the difference but in order of suspecion

(1) 0.5mg clonazepam (would this be depence producing taken every night?) I remember somewhere that Clonaz is different to most benzo;s, certainly not as mind altering.
(2) late dose of 35mg effexor xr
(3) Restarted DHEA
(4) chewed a piece of nicotine gum (I havn't smoked in years I use it sporatically to help with concentration)
(5) ate a shitload of chocolate

Whatever it was, when I was doing my job of the evening (cleaning a kitchen in a hostel) usually I am bombarded with these intrusive dysphoric thoughts and feelings. I would get severe dyskenesias where I would suck my stomach in and tense it as hard as I could, tense all my shoulder muscles, my tounge would protrude, I would hyperventilate and grit my teeth and these awfull thoughts, about me being fucked over by my ex, then I would look at it from his perspective and look at all the trauma he went through as a kid and other times to try to explain why things went the way they did and It was like I would suffer his pain also. I would put my emotions onto his past experiences and be overwhelmed by suffering that isn't even mine and maybe wasn't even his!
I sailed through it feeling so happy and knocked about 30% off the time!

I know this sounds ...is crazy. Maybe I am schizophrenic? I am not overtly delusional.... some days, like today, I feel that everyone is trying to have one over me, power plays and the like. I feel that people coming the other way walking down the street won't move over enough cos they want to be the man...Then again I am so too much of a nice guy and I think I invite it or maybe its in my head?.

I have a strong feeling I have Asperger's to some degree. I am diagnosed ADHD and that is on the autistic spectrum. I have so much trouble with social interactions, always have. Narrow focused intense interests....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger's_syndrome

 

[streetsurfer]

Diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia
(cautionary statement)
A. Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):

(1) delusions
No, I can be paranoid about peoples motives but I put that down to my trouble in judging people and my overly trusting nature

(2) hallucinations
Never

(3) disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)

I am a big one for loose associations but I think it is just divergenty thinking styles ADHD people usual have

(4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior - Catatonic excitement consists of driven, excited, excessive, but purposeless movement

I am grossly disorginised but it resolves with Dex, at least temperarally. The effexor seems to have helped a little also. I am always massively driven, I never relax but it does seem purposless...


5) negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
These symptoms involve the absence of normal behaviors. They include affective flattening, alogia, apathy, avolition and social . Absence of initiative or motivation to begin and maintain behavior in pursuit of a goal.

I would only qualify for avolition on that one, again ADHD

Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
No

B. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
I guess so, just gone back to work after 12 months, few friends, tried to do a particular course 5 times now,

C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).


D. Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because either (1) no Major Depressive, Manic, or Mixed Episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual periods.

E. Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.

F. Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated).

Classification of longitudinal course (can be applied only after at least 1 year has elapsed since the initial onset of active-phase symptoms):

Episodic With Interepisode Residual Symptoms (episodes are defined by the reemergence of prominent psychotic symptoms); also specify if: With Prominent Negative Symptoms

Episodic With No Interepisode Residual Symptoms

Continuous (prominent psychotic symptoms are present throughout the period of observation); also specify if: With Prominent Negative Symptoms

Single Episode In Partial Remission; also specify if: With Prominent Negative Symptoms

Single Episode In Full Remission

Other or Unspecified Pattern

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association






I am not psychotic (though the last time I went stupid on Dex I became mildly so I think)
I can converse with people, I have trouble with social skills I guess. I am definetly worse since abusing that selegiline ritalin combo but then again I was on SSRI's before that for many years and I am back on them now and those symptoms have largely resolved asides from hypomanic episodes I seem to get now.
I dunno,

 

[streetsurfer]

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (DSM–IV)
Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) presents with inattention, distractability, fidgetiness, impulsivity and hyperactivity. Persons with HFA spectrum disorders may be hyperactive, impulsive, have a short attention span and share similar executive function deficits as patients with ADHD. The conditions differ in that ADHD lacks the classic impairment in reciprocal social interaction, narrow interests, repetitive routines and non-verbal problems of Asperger syndrome. In accordance with a hierarchical rule in DSM–IV, a person meeting the criteria for a pervasive developmental disorder cannot be diagnosed as having ADHD. This is not the case in ICD–10, in which a dual diagnosis of Asperger syndrome and ADHD is possible.

Gillberg & Ehlers (1998) point out that children who meet criteria for ADHD may also meet the full criteria for Asperger syndrome. They mention one study, in which 21% of children with severe ADHD met the full criteria for Asperger syndrome and 36% showed autistic traits. A developmental history is usually sufficient to separate ADHD from Asperger syndrome, but ADHD can present as soon as the child can walk, and it is important to consider that impulsivity can interfere with social relationships, making children appear unempathic. Indeed, children with ADHD can be so easily distracted that they appear to be in a world of their own and therefore seem socially disconnected. It is not surprising, therefore, that children with Asperger syndrome are not uncommonly misdiagnosed as having ADHD, since it is often the attention and hyperactive problems that parents first observe.

I definetly have problems with non verbal communication skills. I often misread peoples intentions, come on to strong or appear apathetic.
I definetly have narrow interests, neuroscience, drugs, music.
I have never had a routine in my life

My general manner is I feel excessively friendly, I smile too much out of anxiety, trying to make a connection. I crave connection with people but can't seem to pull it together

Dyslogia
The syndrome of dyslogia was described by Jordan (1972) as the inability to apply logic and common sense in decision-making. Individuals with this difficulty make decisions based on partial facts and have difficulty in integrating data into a working whole. They have social difficulties similar to those of individuals with Asperger syndrome, and dyslogia may simply describe the same population.

^^
That sounds like me

By the way, this is me posting after 2 dex. I feel I am seeking information in a far more linear and methalogical fashion. I took it with 25mg lamictal, 300mg ibuprofen. Feel a bit out of it. Drinking way too much coffee prob has something to do with it.

Anyway, if anyone cares to comment feel free (except FIGJAM) I would appreciate it

 

[streetsurfer]

You know (shit how many posts is this) I realise I have pretty persistant feelings of being judged in daily interqactions with people. Maybe this is a delusion maybe it is just a symptom of depression, dunno

 

[GABAlover]

TD from SSRIs ?