official 2011 NFL thread vers. EAST COAST BIAS

[Tommyboy]

^ All those teams had receivers though. Alex Smith never had a chance with some decent receivers. He did good enough with a TE for me to think they should give him a chance with a couple of decent WRs.

 

[Care]

i think you're going to regret the moss pickup, care.

God my team is just laying there— need to cut some more dead weight on the D and O lines.

Im well aware that it may not work out. The way I see it Moss has a very low floor and high ceiling production wise, very similar to the Braylon Edwards signing last year. Its only a one year deal for not much money so its not like they're breaking the bank for him. Also, I think Moss will be happy to be playing and putting some space between him and TO stats wise and hopefully it wont be all about him. If he starts bitching I have no doubt Harbaugh will cut his ass just like he did with Edwards. He had a bad 2010 season, but the season before that he was money for the Pats.

^ All those teams had receivers though. Alex Smith never had a chance with some decent receivers. He did good enough with a TE for me to think they should give him a chance with a couple of decent WRs.

The 49ers actually had semi-decent receivers last year until they got neutered by injuries. Josh Morgan, Ted Ginn and Delanie Walker all had injuries and exposed our lack of depth at WR and TE.

Yeah but Tommy in such a QB driven league do you really think they will win one with Alex Smith? The QB is so important to the NFL now that defense is constantly belittled, you cant rely on your defense any more. The NFL is shifting to a pass-happy, high scoring league and you need a top-flight QB to win. Look at the past couple QBs who won Super Bowls.

Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady.


would you put Alex Smith in that category?

Yea its a QB driven league but Its not like the dolphins have tons of better options than Smith. Smith is coming off of a decent season and while I don't think he is in the elite category he can get it done.

 

[Care]

If I had to pick a team that scares me the most in the NFC West I would pick the Seahawks. They have one of the best RB's in the league with Lynch and Picking up Matt Flynn could make their offense very potent, and of course they have a great defense and the noisiest home stadium in the league. Doug Baldwin, an undrafted rookie in 2011, could have a great year. They kind of overpaid for Flynn though IMO.

The Cardinals finished last year strong but I dont see them winning the division. They have some great talent on their team but it never seems to come together for a complete season since Warner left.

The Rams gave us a run for our money late last year, but their team doesn't really scare me a whole lot. Bradford really needs to have a good year or they're in trouble, again.

 

[Tommyboy]

Peyton Manning to the Broncos. They say they will try to trade Tim Tebow now. Will Miami have any interest in him?

 

[23536]

omg Tebow to Dolphins! TEBOW!!!

 

[suburu]

Looks like Manning and Alex Smiths agent just took the 49ers on a little joyride. I'm sure he knew yesterday Peyton wasn't going to San Fran and told Smith get on a plane to Miami. Probably get a nice deal for Manning, Smith and himself.

 

[Care]

Ugh, oh well. Cant have everything I guess. We'll see how it all ends up working out, Peyton going to Denver might be a blessing in disguise.

I dont think that division will be a pushover for the broncos next year. Despite what some people say about the AFC west all 4 teams are solid.

 

[axl blaze]

the AFC West is on the up and up, but I wouldn't call the division "solid" until at least the results of next season

all I know is that sadly, the Denver Broncos are going to be boss as fuck with Manning

 

[23536]

The best thing about being a Dolphins fan is that basketball season begins as baseball season is ending.

Something must be done to extirpate the usurpers that have laid siege to this unfortunate franchise. Something fanatical. An intifada. A jihad. I am reminded of the words of the psalmist:

Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us—
he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Cowboys are fucked this year...peace out y'all

 

[Wyld 4 X]

Cowboys are fucked every year that Jerry Jones is GM...peace out y'all

Corrected for accuracy.

 

[Wyld 4 X]

Hines Ward retires as 'Steeler for life'

Hines Ward had no doubt that he wanted to be a Pittsburgh Steeler through his NFL career, and after 14 great seasons, he'll retire that way. In an emotional Tuesday morning press conference, the team's all-time leading receiver announced that he will be hanging 'em up.

As a Steeler fan and major Hines Ward fan, I'm saddened by the news but I'm also proud of this guy. He personified what it means to be a Steeler and he is one of the best to ever play the game at WR. He doesnt have the stats of Jerry Rice and the other WR greats but any opposing defense had to know where he was during any offensive play. In short, he changed how his position is played and sacrificed what likely could have been great WR stats for championship success. And oh yeah, 2 SB wins and a SB MVP will only help his chances of being a first ballot HoF inductee.

You will be missed, Hines.

 

[alasdairm]

i know the world must look very different through those black and yellow glasses...

i don't think he'll get in on a first ballot. he may not get in at all. there is no doubt hines ward is a talented receiver, played hard for the steelers for a long time and is generally well-liked. that doesn't get you into the hall of fame.

football loves to measure itself and when hines ward's career is measured, he'll come up short. i know you'll argue that the system is broken and stats aren't everything. that's a different discussion. when you're talking about the hall of fame, stats are an important factor and your man ward just doesn't measure up.

one of the major measures of production for a wr is receiving yards. aside from two great seasons (2002 for 1329 yards and 2003 for 1163) his stats in this category are above average. even if you throw in his 1167 yard season in 2009, which could be viewed as too little, too late, he's just an above average receiver. the standard for the hall of fame is - and should be - higher than that.

tim brown is fourth all time in receiving yards and he's not in the hall of fame with his nine 1000+ yard seasons (hines ward has 6). chris carter (eighth all time) is still waiting (and he had eight consecutive 1000+ yard seasons).

by no measure is he "one of the best" to ever play wr. that's just hyperbole.

i don't blame you for being unable to look at his candidacy objectively but the hall of fame will and hines ward is by no means a sure thing...

alasdair

 

[shimazu]

yeah but Hines Ward was one of the best blocking receivers of all time, won 2 Super Bowls (and SB MVP one year), stayed with one team his whole career, and is just a likeable guy. Im not saying hes gonna get in on the first ballot, but I think he has a shot

actually read the previous couple posts and realized I just summarized what has already been said <---------------that guy

 

[Tommyboy]

Alasdair, I agree. I never got the "teams needs to double team this guy in order to have a fighting chance at defending him" feel from his opponents, and that's the type of stand out playing you need to be inducted into the HOF, so I don't see it happening anytime soon for Heinz Ward. His style of play just isn't the kind that is looked for in the HOF.

They look for deep threats and players that make defenders miss, turning small gains into big yardage. They don't really care about players that will take a hit going through the middle, or make some great sideline grabs, or make some great blocks for teamates down the field. You can get all the first downs in the world, but if you're not a player that is known for being able to turn the game around at anytime by turning receptions into touchdowns, it doesn't help get you in.

A player that is known to have 2 receptions for 2 touchdowns in games will get in quicker than a player that has 12 receptions for 150 yards, but no touchdowns. Obviously anybody that has those stats each game would get in, I was just using them as an example for the type of play that gets you in.

Here's my example. The previous Giants receiver core from a few years back had Steve Smith who has since set the franchise record for receptions in a season, and they had Amani Toomer who had the team record for receiving yards at the time, yet if any of the recievers on that team were to get into the HOF, it would be Plaxico Burress. I am just going by any one year that any of them played good, but everyone overlooked Smith and Toomers play which put them in position to score, and only focued on who scored the touchdowns on that fade route that they loved so much. Even this season with the Jets it seemed like about half of Plax's receptions (which weren't many) were for touchdowns, but that's just the type of play that get's you into the HOF. I'm not saying that he will get in, I'm just saying that if any of those 3 were to get in it would be him.

 

[Care]

Ward was a great player, but I don't think he is HOF material. There are just too many great players that are going to be competing for those same spots. He does have the consecutive catches streak, the two rings and the SB MVP on his side, aswell as the fact that he was part of a very popular franchise, but in the end I think his stats just are not good enough overall to get him in.

 

[China Rider]

shameless plug: isaac bruce is a hall of famer, maybe first ballot

hines, maybe gets in after 5+ years on being on the ballot

 

[Wyld 4 X]

i know the world must look very different through those black and yellow glasses...

i don't think he'll get in on a first ballot. he may not get in at all. there is no doubt hines ward is a talented receiver, played hard for the steelers for a long time and is generally well-liked. that doesn't get you into the hall of fame.

football loves to measure itself and when hines ward's career is measured, he'll come up short. i know you'll argue that the system is broken and stats aren't everything. that's a different discussion. when you're talking about the hall of fame, stats are an important factor and your man ward just doesn't measure up.

one of the major measures of production for a wr is receiving yards. aside from two great seasons (2002 for 1329 yards and 2003 for 1163) his stats in this category are above average. even if you throw in his 1167 yard season in 2009, which could be viewed as too little, too late, he's just an above average receiver. the standard for the hall of fame is - and should be - higher than that.

tim brown is fourth all time in receiving yards and he's not in the hall of fame with his nine 1000+ yard seasons (hines ward has 6). chris carter (eighth all time) is still waiting (and he had eight consecutive 1000+ yard seasons).

by no measure is he "one of the best" to ever play wr. that's just hyperbole.

i don't blame you for being unable to look at his candidacy objectively but the hall of fame will and hines ward is by no means a sure thing...

alasdair

You make good points but they are made with less than stellar examples. Firstly, I know I am biased for Ward but I am no means a "black and gold homer."

Let me address your examples of Tim Brown and Chris Carter. Great WRs, great stats but no SB titles. They will likely eventually get in but the reason they are not in already is their lack of championship pedigree. Dig up all the stats on them you want but SB wins move you up the list unless you lead with all-time stats. Otherwise, you wait.

Next, stats, which we have already more or less addressed and I know he doesnt have them...or at least have what is considered HoF worthy stats. However, he is the all-time Steeler WR leader in receptions, TDs and yards. That is ahead of 2 HoF Steeler WRs, Lynn Swann & John Stallworth. Not great stats but he does lead his team in that respect. Different era, different game back then you say? That leads me to other reasons he will get in.

He played the game in an old school way that no other WR of this era can match. There is an NFL rule because of him and how he played. And that is the result of his blocking ability. An ability that may or may not give him the edge in getting in but it is something that sets him apart from other WRs of this era. And if you can't produce the sexy stats then you better have done something that changes the game or at least changes the way a position is played. Check and check for him there.

My only hyperbole is him being a first ballot HoF player....being one of the best WR ever is certainly my opinion and not just based on blind affiliation for the Steelers. I believe he is and you thinking it is hyperbole is your opinion. Anyway, we have 5 years+ before we know anything.

 

[Wyld 4 X]

Alasdair, I agree. I never got the "teams needs to double team this guy in order to have a fighting chance at defending him" feel from his opponents, and that's the type of stand out playing you need to be inducted into the HOF, so I don't see it happening anytime soon for Heinz Ward. His style of play just isn't the kind that is looked for in the HOF.

The problem with that argument is Hines is a different WR than anyone before him. His style is what actually may set him apart.

Here's my example. The previous Giants receiver core from a few years back had Steve Smith who has since set the franchise record for receptions in a season, and they had Amani Toomer who had the team record for receiving yards at the time, yet if any of the recievers on that team were to get into the HOF, it would be Plaxico Burress. I am just going by any one year that any of them played good, but everyone overlooked Smith and Toomers play which put them in position to score, and only focued on who scored the touchdowns on that fade route that they loved so much. Even this season with the Jets it seemed like about half of Plax's receptions (which weren't many) were for touchdowns, but that's just the type of play that get's you into the HOF. I'm not saying that he will get in, I'm just saying that if any of those 3 were to get in it would be him.

Sorry to shoot a hole in your example (pun intended).....but Burress and any of those other Giant WRs will only be ticket holders for Canton.

 

[Wyld 4 X]

shameless plug: isaac bruce is a hall of famer, maybe first ballot

hines, maybe gets in after 5+ years on being on the ballot

Interesting, they both have similar stats though.