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Official 2011 NFL Season Thread

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just cuz I'm bored and want to talk - I remember the days when the Steelers had jokes as QBs. having a spectacular defense can usually be good enough to get your team into the Conference Championship, and maybe at best a Super Bowl berth (Baltimore Ravens last decade notwithstanding - that defense was AMAZING). don't expect to get much further than that. just ask the Chicago Bears lately
 
The problem is that defense at its best can only limit the amount of scoring that the other team does, which cannot cause a win without an offensive performance. The offense at its best can run up the score, which can actually cause a win on its own. Don't get me wrong, defense is extremely important and I love defensive football, but a team with a strong offense and weak defense is generally going to win more games than a weak offense with a strong defense simply because they have the ability to score.
 
Dan Marino left a curse on us, or something.
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As a niner fan, believe me, I feel your pain.

Alex Smith looked really sharp vs the chargers first team defense in the 9ers final preseason game of the year. This is obviously just a thing he does every now and then to tease the fans into thinking he could be a decent QB, but still worth noting. Im expecting him to do well at home against the seahawks in the opener too. The real tests will come when they go on the road and face teams that are worth a shit, at which time he will inevitably crash and burn like he always does.
 
hmm. I'm inclined to argue the opposite, that a team with a strong defense and a weak offense is better off than a team with a strong offense/weak defense. however, facing the facts, a team with a weak anything is inclined to have its Achilles' heel exposed in the brilliant play of the National Football League
 
axl blaze said:
hmm. I'm inclined to argue the opposite, that a team with a strong defense and a weak offense is better off than a team with a strong offense/weak defense. however, facing the facts, a team with a weak anything is inclined to have its Achilles' heel exposed in the brilliant play of the National Football League
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While both are of nearly equal importance I would tend to disagree. Look at the patriots and colts over the last 10 or so years, both teams with average at best defenses and explosive offenses, lead by their quarterbacks. When a team can get ahead early in professional football it causes the other team to play a different more risky style that even the worst defenses can exploit. Basically it comes down to the quarterback position being incredibly important in football. If your quarterback plays a flawless game its really hard to lose, while defense can play amazingly and lose often if the offence gets shut down.

In a nutshell, I think their is a higher ceiling for offensive success in football than their is for the defense.
 
Care said:
As a niner fan, believe me, I feel your pain.

Alex Smith looked really sharp vs the chargers first team defense in the 9ers final preseason game of the year. This is obviously just a thing he does every now and then to tease the fans into thinking he could be a decent QB, but still worth noting. Im expecting him to do well at home against the seahawks in the opener too. The real tests will come when they go on the road and face teams that are worth a shit, at which time he will inevitably crash and burn like he always does.
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Yeah, I've seen a lot of similarities between the Phins and 9ers over the years. Both teams have shitloads of talent, but are an average QB away from being contenders. It sucks, because both teams have elite players all over the place, but without a QB they are hopeless. At least Henne has a shot to become decent, as often times a light turns on in a players head during their third season in the rotation or starting (Henne is going into his 4th season, this is his third year of actual playing time) especially at QB, but I'm not holding out much hope for him. If I were a Niners fan, I would want Smith gone yesterday. He is irredeemably bad, and the team is still too good to get a top QB pick (no Andrew Luck for the 49ers).

This is Henne's final shot to prove himself. It does happen on rare occasions (Drew Brees anyone?), but you cannot count on it. The Dolphins should have drafted a QB at some point this year. In fact, I believe that any team without a proven QB should save a lower round pick at the very least for one. While I agree with Axl that teams with strong defense have a better shot of doing some damage in the playoffs (look at the Jets, crappy offense but outstanding defense), left tackle and quarterback are the two determining positions in this league. To sustain success over a long period of time, a team absolutely needs a QB (I know the Ravens were cited, but they faded from actual championship contention for a long time after that Super Bowl), and a great left tackle to protect him. Those are the two most important and rare positions in the league. LT is easier to evaluate at the pro level, so elite LT's are almost always off the board by the time the middle of the pack teams make their pick, so unless there is a sure thing at QB like an Andrew Luck or Sam Bradford, it is essential to take the LT instead of the risky QB pick.

Just to cite how important the left tackle position is, look no further than Mathew Stafford. This kid has the tools to be really good, but because the Lions have a total aversion to making the sensible pick (yeah, their defensive tackles will be the best in the league, and that is important, but they are not protecting their most important investment), he is likely to go the David Carr route, where a QB becomes too traumatized by the amount of hits he takes to improve. Additionally, not only do left tackles have to be around 6'6 310+ pounds with quick feet and the absolute correct hip proportion, they are expected to be at least as smart, if not smarter, than the quarterback himself. I know that tons of people on BL already know this, but casual fans do not realize just how intelligent you need to be to play offensive line in the NFL.
 
Care said:
While both are of nearly equal importance I would tend to disagree. Look at the patriots and colts over the last 10 or so years, both teams with average at best defenses and explosive offenses, lead by their quarterbacks. When a team can get ahead early in professional football it causes the other team to play a different more risky style that even the worst defenses can exploit. Basically it comes down to the quarterback position being incredibly important in football. If your quarterback plays a flawless game its really hard to lose, while defense can play amazingly and lose often if the offence gets shut down.

In a nutshell, I think their is a higher ceiling for offensive success in football than their is for the defense.
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A completely offensive driven Super Bowl winning team is about as rare as a completely defensive one. The Rams are the last offensive team with weak defense I can think of, and the Ravens are the last defensive team with weak offense. One odd trend as of late is that while defense driven teams tend to have poorer regular seasons relative to the offensive juggernauts, the Colts and Pats have been consistently knocked out of the playoffs whenever the defense gets to below average levels. If we compare that to the Steelers, you find that defense is way more important. Most of their offensive players are overrated because they have won so much lately. Big Ben would be a bust if he played on a team with a weak defense. He is clutch as a motherfucker, but he is not capable of elite stats. I would rate him as good but not great. However, his flaws are masked by his miraculous ability to turn it on at the end of a close game and the elite Steeler defense, and he is a perfect fit for the team. Finding a good QB is hard enough, most QB's suck ass, so just being good is a great compliment.
 
axl blaze said:
team with a weak anything is inclined to have its Achilles' heel exposed in the brilliant play of the National Football League
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I agree, there can't be an outright weakness.

I really dislike teams that are all passing offenses like the Pats were and the Colts still are. I'm more a fan of the running game, play action pass, and stout defenses. I just notice that the teams like the Colts still do well even with mediocre defense just because they can score like crazy.
 
at least the Colts have a couple elite pass rushers. without them, it would be scary as to how bad their defense could be. I also think that their running game is better than most people give them credit for. but yeah, make no mistake, Peyton is that team. if he's out for four games they won't even win that division (Wildcard imo)

re: Big Ben. yeah, I'm not one of the crazies that think he is on par with Brady, Brees, or Manning. but other than those three, I wouldn't trade Big Ben for anybody. he has an arm, and he is clutch. shiiiit, Brees and Manning combined have just as much SB rings as Big Ben. I do realize that this is becase Pittsburgh is a solid organization throughout, with a spectacular defense - but I am very sold on Ben. if he wins another Super Bowl it would be very difficult to argue against him
 
I hope Manning makes a complete recovery. Hes got a few good years left if he can stay healthy and I love watching him play football.
 
yeah, the NFL needs players like Manning; as much as I have cringed when he was up against my team
 
axl blaze said:
hmm. I'm inclined to argue the opposite, that a team with a strong defense and a weak offense is better off than a team with a strong offense/weak defense. however, facing the facts, a team with a weak anything is inclined to have its Achilles' heel exposed in the brilliant play of the National Football League
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I agree that a strong defense/weak offense is a better off than the strong offense/weak defense combo. A strong defense can get you some points on turn overs, or at least some great field position. The offense only has to be able to get into field position, and maybe eat the clock. If a strong defense can at least keep the opposing team from scoring the first points, then the weak offense can run the ball/clock, and at least getting some field goals.

If you are breaking it down into teams going against each other having to be strong on one side of the ball, and weak on the other, the strong defense/weak offense will win. The other teams strong offense will we offset by the opponents strong D, and won't score much. The team with the weak offense will likely be able to put up more points on the weak D than the two strong parts.

Obviously most teams are more balanced, but this was just for the sake of argement.
 
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I hate to overjoy for a player being injured... but I am overjoyed in the fact that my Steelers play the Colts in Week 3 (I believe), and Manning is for sure out for that one. looks like a "W" in the column for Pittsburgh :)
 
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