NZ - Legal highs to be tested on animals

edgarshade

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Waikato Times

SIENA YATES
Last updated 11:45 11/09/2012

With reader comments and poll

Animal rights activists are in disbelief that animals could be tested on so legal highs can go back on New Zealand shelves. In a bill due to be introduced to parliament in the next few months, Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne has outlined testing to be done before the products can legally be sold again.

In article 29 of the Regulation of Psychoactive Substances proposal, it was recommended that:

''The minimum pre-clinical data required is acute toxicity, repeat dose toxicity, pharmacokinetics and genotoxicity. These tests are undertaken on small animals, such as rats and will take between 6 - 12 months to complete and report''.

Campaign manager for Save Animals From Exploitation (SAFE), Mandy Carter said toxicity testing generally involves administering the drugs or chemicals to the animal by force feeding, inhalation, injection, or on the skin to gauge immediate reactions and lethal dosages. This causes immense suffering and the animals are usually killed at the end to moniter internal and long term effects of the chemicals.

More...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/7652411/Legal-highs-to-be-tested-on-animals
 
i guess it is different because most of these shitty drugs are known to be...well, shitty.
it's one thing to force drugs, pain, suffering and torment to a defenceless creature for the sake of medicine - i suppose the ethics of 'for the greater good' start to look a little less clear cut when we're talking about 'legal highs' (whatever that even means).

you could argue that this is a good step in the direction of harm reduction, but i would probably counter that by saying "what about the harm inflicted on the animals?"
i daresay there are plenty of willing human guinea pigs out there. hell, they'll even pay good money to be a subject (minus the killing bit).

i dunno. just legalise the shit that these crappy pseudo-recreational substances are aiming to replace? has that not crossed anyone's mind?
 
I recently met someone just arrived in the UK to spread his soap business from the middle East. Certainly getting EU approval of cosmetics mandates animal testing.
 
People are willing to take these drugs wether they have been tested on animals or not.. why not just study the people taking them (and pay them for it)..
 
Don't understand what the difference is compared to every other animal/drug test thats ever been done.

They should have done this in the first place before releasing them lol. One day...
 
^ Are you referring to my poetry? That is not what I was saying.

But to answer your question, I think animal testing is very sad, but unavoidable (i.e. better than human testing, and better than ignorance).
I wish it could be done in a more humane way, and was limited to what is essential.
 
Would you rather have the LD50 be "unknown" until people start killing themselves, or would you have it derived from a 6 month study?

Same thing with cancer - leave it as an unknown while people consume it indefinitely, or find out its a carcinogen in a year's time.

If a bunch of inbred mice have to die for LD50 tests, so be it. You would be amazed that the same process of killing or harming mice, fish, and rabbits with overdoses of e.g. citronella oil is required by law to be done in order to sell it as a pest control device.
 
I think we should test on humans who are facing life in prison.

just legalise the shit that these crappy pseudo-recreational substances are aiming to replace? has that not crossed anyone's mind?

^ This.
 
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I think we should test on humans who are facing life in prison.



^ This.
Erm ... what about all the innocent people who are facing life in prison (as made evident by DNA exoneration, etc.)?

I'm pretty damned sure "just legalizing" currently illegal drugs is not an avenue that's been overlooked.

Time will tell, but with so little information I can only guess that the whole point of doing this, from the perspective of the New Zealand government, is to, as quickly as possible, lure as many would-be legal drug profiteers as possible into paying millions for tests whose criteria will ultimately disqualify all or most of the submissions from entering the market (fast money). If they're not willing to legalize and regulate cannabis, given all we know about its relative safety profile, how much of a miracle is it going to take for some random new synthetic to be approved? Does anybody have links to New Zealand government documentation that legally defines "risks" and "benefits" within the approval process for bringing a new legal recreational synthetic drug to market? What exactly constitutes tipping the scale toward approval? There's got to be something fairly unprecedented going on in how they're saying they're going to interpret their minimax charts if they actually expect to convince investors to drop that kind of cash on a roll of what has to be suspected are weighted dice.

That said, when the drugs you're trying to replace with new legal alternatives are crack, heroin, and meth, looking to develop safer alternatives with legit research rather than just legalizing these problem drugs really is a plausible harm reduction strategy if done in earnest.

If I were a curious investor with a lot of cash to play around with, just for kicks I'd see if I could skip some of the government tests by referencing all the past research on psilocin and attempt to bring 4-AcO-DMT to the legal market on the cheap...

And as heartbreaking as animal testing is, for Carter to denounce using animal testing for development of safer recreational drugs is disingenuous, and I suspect, a publicity stunt for her cause. As Sekio points out explicitly and others have alluded to, there are far more trivial products than safer recreational drugs that animal testing is used to bring to market. She says:
it's not even going to benefit anyone, it's just for recreational use.
... which just blatantly ignores what the whole legal replacement drug enterprise in New Zealand is, at least on a public relations level, trying to accomplish. Developing these new recreational drugs theoretically will benefit all the people who don't overdose on the older illicit recreational drugs because they use a safer alternative. That basic rationale was presumably right in her face as she said that and there's just no account of it ???
 
Erm ... what about all the innocent people who are facing life in prison (as made evident by DNA exoneration, etc.)

They might have a nicer time in jail as they wait to get their innocence proven, they might even be the envy of others inside too.

It was an off hand comment really. I do however think there would be hundreds or thousands of humans who would put their hand up to willingly test these kind of things, hell they already have when kronic and such were legal last yr and prior. And some people apparently died, some got very sick, lots of weird things were reported.

Animals dont get a say, its cruel. This isn't a beneficial medicine we are talking about.

The poll results so far -

Yes
64 votes, 16.5%

No
323 votes, 83.5%
 
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It was an off hand comment really.
I figured so, but thought I should say something just in case, heh. The problem with using humans is that in no way would they be the envy of others inside the prison. In order to be of predictive value practical inquiries into the pharmacology of a drug need to define the parameters of its effects. That means killin' things or otherwise testing their limits of tolerance. If you want to know how humans would be experimented on like animals look into the work of Josef Mengel (Ok, arguably worse than like animals), and, in a very very different way, Ancel Keys' -- actually quite noble given the state of knowledge at the time -- starvation experiments with willfull American conscientious objectors during WWII.
 
^ They might be Innocent too tho? :\

What about if inside prison, people could sign up on their own free will to take part in the trial? Even rapists, pedos, lifers?

I'm pretty sure there'd be quite a few wonting to sign up to take part in such a trial (innocent or not) :)
 
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If I were in prison I'd volunteer to test new recreational drugs. I already do that anyway:D. Not the LD-50 tests, think I'll pass.

In general I think testing drugs on prisoners is a bad idea.
 
^ agreed. Testing on prioners is a terrible idea, and I have a hard believing that this is a sentiment anyone can really express truthfully.
 
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There has got to be pre-clinical data already on compounds that have been used in human studies e.g. MDMA, psilocybin, DMT, LSD and possibly some of the NBOMe's used for PET studies
 
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