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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

NPS Act V1. Blankets? Just Say No!

I'm not affiliated with the TDPF :)

Just was the wrong word - not objectively just but subjectively according to the shitty baseline of UK politics.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I'm really happy that this is being discussed in westminster, and I think that is representative of progress on its own. We can't expect the government to undergo a paradigm shift. The old prohibitionists need to die before we will see real change but in the meantime I think that winning the minds of those who haven't yet decided is productive.

Are you surprised that he didn't crusade for full regulation? I'm not. If we want to make progress on this we have to accept that these people are going to make compromises. That's why they're allowed to be in there. They play the game, they toe the line. If you make trouble you'll be out.
 
One Thousand Words said:
The flip side is I pay for private schooling for my children, saving the poor public system thousands each year. Ditto my private health insurance frees up public hospital beds and nurses.

Besides no one pays for coke and hookers. If you can't get laid with an 8 ball in your jacket pocket then are't really trying ;)
Click to expand...

I once went out with a whole rack of pool balls in my pocket. Didn't even get a fuckin sniff...
 
You people have it so easy you don't even know it. I've suffered at least 5 police raids on my house just for importing Kratom and Etizolam over the years and I don't complain. They're always disappointed as they expect to find something bigger, like everyone goes increasingly downhill.

I had a court hearing in April. It was a guilty plea as I couldn't exactly deny anything. I got a small fine and a 2 year probation and the judge said they had emphasized I didn't mean any ill will or harm to anyone.

Not that it has stopped me, but I have a good relationship with the local police force and it takes a lot for them to eventually charge me for anything.
 
How can they raid your house when both kratom and etiz are legal ninae? Just raiding it on the off chance there'll be something illegal?
 
Transform said:
The lords aren't having a laugh wasting time, it is their job to ensure that the law is just and watertight to prevent expensive legal challenges and loopholes. Hence the discussion about chocolate. I watched about 4 hours of the discussion and was really impressed by some of the discussion.

Lord Howarth even mentioned that the government should support bluelight (and safeorscam and others) as complimentary educational tools to Talk To Frank, as TTF doesn't cut it. I'll get the grant application ready shall I?
Click to expand...

Yeah the bit i watched before dinner was where they seemed to have lost their focus, and were just cracking lame jokes. When they returned after dinner the quality improved. I was delighted to hear Bluelight get a mention, more than a mention, high praise as being 'excellent for its' aim of providing accurate harm reduction information'.

One of the several things that did annoy me about the debate was that everyone seemed to assume that legal high users were children/youths/"young people" and that the bill was intended to 'protect vulnerable young people from harm'. It won't, it will drive them back to the black market, which is potentially even more dangerous, especially with substances like heroin with the huge variation in the strength and purity of batches, where no one can be 100% sure of what they are taking unless they get it tested. Plus the pedantic in me wants to point out that there are a hell of a lot of people still taking drugs (legal or otherwise) well into their 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond. No one seems to officially know about this.8(
 
FFS. For those who didn't watch it and can be arsed to read beyond tl;dr (nobody? Ok) here is the link for what was said, where BL was mentioned and where all the good amendments were withdrawn. To me, this is nothing but a talking shop, and a very small shop at that considering there were less than 11 alive people at the debate.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2015-06-23a.1551.0&s=prison

"Yes m'Lord, I'm so glad you listened m'Lord, do something about things m'Lord? Good God no m'Lord, I couldn't really expect that but thanks for listening"

If anyone thinks the mention of Bluelight here is anything other than rudimentary and superficial God help you. Are you won over that easily really?
 
I wouldnt say i was won over simply because he praised BL, but it at least demonstrated that his researchers had done a reasonably good job on reporting on sources of information regarding drugs. And he recognised the failure of the "starchy tone" of FRANK. Its not much to go on, but Howarth tried to oppose the bill and make ammendments, i am embarrased that i couldnt be arsed to find out what happened next, and why he withdrew his opposition. Frankly, i was surprised that at least 1 Lord made the effort to oppose the bill, and try to get parts of it ammended. I dint think a single one would bat an eye at the whole thing.

The time for change regarding drugs policy in the UK isnt yet it would seem, so other than sign a petition, write to an MP, go on a March holding a banner and shouting there's FA that I/we can do about what's going to happen. If i want to carry on taking legal highs that badly after the ban i guess i could sell up and move to ***** where i could continue to legally purchase such things. But I wont miss most of the current LHs badly enough to do that.
 
Withdrawing amendments is standard practice in committee stage and it's very unusual for any votes to be taken. Amendments are seriously proposed and voted upon in the report stage which follows.
 
The war on drugs has failed. Why don't they just admit it, legalise everything and regulate it.The taxes alone will will make it worth it. Look at all the money the druglords and gangs will stop receiving.Crime would drop dramastically.I do NOT see a down side.Why are lawmakers so stubborn on this issue?.Look at every place that has legalised some drug or drugs. The success is far beyond expectations.You promised change Obama. here's ur chance.
 
Do you have a source to back up your statement about fags, booze and paracetamol killing more people than disease and war ?

I'd be surprised if they have even beaten flu. by BUmmer..





  2. Harmful use of alcohol results in the death of 2.5 million peopleannually, causes illness and injury to millions more, and increasingly affects younger generations and drinkers in developing countries. Nearly 4% of all deaths are related to alcohol.
  3. 2.5 Million Alcohol-Related Deaths Worldwide- Annually

    https://ncadd.org/.../...National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence
    1. Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including an estimated 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.Apr 15, 2015
    2. CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

      www.cdc.gov/tobacco...
        1. Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause for calls to Poison Control Centers (>100,000/year) and accounts for more than 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and an estimated 458 deaths due to acute liver failure each year.
        2. Acetaminophen and the US Acute Liver Failure Study Group

          www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../1...
      2. Acetaminophen and the US Acute Liver Failure Study Group

        www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../1...
        1. Data from this new study also suggests that 378,000 people worldwide died a violent death in war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared with 137,000 estimated at the time.Jun 21, 2008
        2. [h=3]Worldwide War Deaths Underestimated - ABC News[/h]abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5207645


        3. Drug Facts Chat Day: Drug Abuse | NIDA for Teens

          teens.drugabuse.gov/.../drug-facts-chat-...



          National Institute on Drug Abuse


          About 570,000 people die annually due to drug use. That breaks down to about 440,000 from disease related to tobacco, 85,000due to alcohol, 20,000 due to illicit (illegal) drugs, and 20,000due to prescription drug abuse.

      3. The CDC is now recommending that everyone older than 6 months get a flu shot each year. (It used to be just children and seniors.) The CDC wants reporters to drop the 36,000 annual estimate (at last) and instead say that the death toll ranges from 3,300 to 49,000.Aug 26, 2010
      4. [h=3]How Many People Die From Flu Each Year? Depends How ...[/h]www.npr.org/.../annual-flu-death-average-fluctuates-depending-on-ho..

  4. There is your proof. Only 20,000 have died from Illegal drugs. and some 385,000 from war . But this was in the early 90's it's much much less today.Yet Tobacco remains the number 1 killer. And the poiliticians are just right out lying about drugs illegal due to public health is just , Well I gotta call BS on this 1.
 
Last edited:
Elsa said:
Do you have a source to back up your statement about fags, booze and paracetamol killing more people than disease and war ?

I'd be surprised if they have even beaten flu. by BUmmer..





  2. Harmful use of alcohol results in the death of 2.5 million peopleannually, causes illness and injury to millions more, and increasingly affects younger generations and drinkers in developing countries. Nearly 4% of all deaths are related to alcohol.
  3. 2.5 Million Alcohol-Related Deaths Worldwide- Annually

    https://ncadd.org/.../...National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence
    1. Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including an estimated 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.Apr 15, 2015
    2. CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

      www.cdc.gov/tobacco...
        1. Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause for calls to Poison Control Centers (>100,000/year) and accounts for more than 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and an estimated 458 deaths due to acute liver failure each year.
        2. Acetaminophen and the US Acute Liver Failure Study Group

          www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../1...
      2. Acetaminophen and the US Acute Liver Failure Study Group

        www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../1...
        1. Data from this new study also suggests that 378,000 people worldwide died a violent death in war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared with 137,000 estimated at the time.Jun 21, 2008
        2. [h=3]Worldwide War Deaths Underestimated - ABC News[/h]abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5207645


        3. Drug Facts Chat Day: Drug Abuse | NIDA for Teens

          teens.drugabuse.gov/.../drug-facts-chat-...



          National Institute on Drug Abuse


          About 570,000 people die annually due to drug use. That breaks down to about 440,000 from disease related to tobacco, 85,000due to alcohol, 20,000 due to illicit (illegal) drugs, and 20,000due to prescription drug abuse.

      3. The CDC is now recommending that everyone older than 6 months get a flu shot each year. (It used to be just children and seniors.) The CDC wants reporters to drop the 36,000 annual estimate (at last) and instead say that the death toll ranges from 3,300 to 49,000.Aug 26, 2010
      4. [h=3]How Many People Die From Flu Each Year? Depends How ...[/h]www.npr.org/.../annual-flu-death-average-fluctuates-depending-on-ho..

  4. There is your proof. Only 20,000 have died from Illegal drugs. and some 385,000 from war . But this was in the early 90's it's much much less today.Yet Tobacco remains the number 1 killer. And the poiliticians are just right out lying about drugs illegal due to public health is just , Well I gotta call BS on this 1.
Click to expand...

Elsa I think your preaching to the converted here.

Before any UK government makes any new policy regarding the control and / or prohibition of psychoactive drugs they are compelled to seek the advice of a committee of specialised scientists and experts known as the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD). When the ACMD first started presenting statistics similar to yours, statistics that suggested that drugs such as cannabis, LSD and MDMA are not as harmful as tobacco, alcohol or acetaminophen, the government really didnt want to hear it. They responded by
a; sacking the chair of the ACMD (a very prominent psychiatrist and neuroscientist)
b; increasing the legal penalties for simple possession of cannabis
c; they ignored the ACMD's plea to introduce a minimum pricing system for alcohol, an approach that is already beginning to have a positive effect on the health of the Scottish population.
d; since 2009, they have simply ignored the ACMD and its work altogether, banning over 550 drugs in 6 years without even assessing whether or not they cause harm.

Drug prohibition and control in the UK (England and Wales especially) has nothing to do with protecting the public with regards to either its health or social mobility. Its simply driven by tabloid style media and entrenched 50 year old moral standings. None of the statistics and science, not even the obvious failiure of current prohibitionist policy will stop this bill or change any drug laws in the UK for the next 2 generations at least.
 
^
Nice find.

And aren't all the Lords and Ladies mad as hatters anyhoo...

Here's hoping there's enough info coming through to chime them.
 
Elsa said:
You promised change Obama. here's ur chance.
Click to expand...

I heard on the radio that Obama is disappointed with what he's managed to achieve during his tenure, and as it reaches an end he will feel free to voice all the opinions and matters of fact that he really believes. Apparently he has already started on this quest, ever since I knew the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans I have always believed that the Democrats were/are a force for good in the USA; progressive thinking and policy making. Sadly, for reasons i know not Obama seems to have failed, in many ways things are worse in the USA now than than they were when he took over, especially with all the racial tensions reaching boiling point.

But i believe that Obama is still hugely respected, he is a highly charismatic and gifted public speaker, and his words reach all but the most censored corners of the world. I hope he uses his remaining time to throw caution to the wind, and says what needs saying. The more influential voices we have weighing in against this Victorian and blinkered and failed "war on drugs" gradually public attitudes will start to shift. We have business tycoons like richard branson, "national treasures" like stephen fry, and countless dozens besides all vying for change.

It is now common for a large proportion of people of my generation to be very open minded regarding drugs; cannabis and cocaine are seen as harmless party drugs by most of my peers. When i was a youngster people in their 40s and 50s all thought that drugs were the road to ruin and damnation. Attitudes have shifted amongst the public, and to some smaller extent in the older generations. We just have to wait for the reactionary and staid right wing tory press to catch up. Considering most of the people who buy the daily mail and express, times and telegraph, are probably a generation or 2 older than me, there is a long wait ahead until all these outdated notions die out with the people peddling the anti-drug propoganda and those that believe it.

It is a disgrace to hire an independent scientific body to conduct objective research, and then simply sack them all when you dont like their findings. Might as well be in Russia or North Korea, the only difference is that dissenting voices arent mysteriously assisinated or openly executed. Just quietly swept under the carpet, in the hope that the public will forget what they said.
 
STeewith2ees I know I am preaching to the chior.But BUmmer asked where my proof was,So i obliged him..I do not post things without knowing what the heck I'm talking about.The day will come when many things will actually become legalized that once was demonized.Jut wait.It'll happen.I would like to know how to contact our lobbyists about this issue.After all. Free vacations for senators is how you get bills passed.Not Ethics or moral but money.I'd be more then happy to support the Lobbyists that are trying to legalize some things. Just point me in the right direction.I also agree about proof falling on deaf ears.After all we are trying to convince politicians that got to the white house by donations from Big Pharma.Oil and Banking institutes (we've seen what the bankers do with free reign).Now let's see what the adventurer does with free reign of their D.O.C. Turm 'em loose boys. You'll see a happier nation with much less violent crimes.Please drop the war on drugs. Leave the money in your country and stop sending it to 3rd world countries when their drugs are imported.Also I bet the US can crank out the best stuff.lol.. Thank you travelers of the mind. Love u all. Keep it up we will win 1 day.
 
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