Open Ur Eyes
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I take Piracetam, phenibut, fish oil, and a lechitin supplement everyday and I love it. Highly recommend Piracetam/Phenibut, it has helped me greatly with anxiety and school.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Nootropics & 5-HTP
- Thread starter solistus
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I find phenibut very euphoric at the right dose. Interestingly, I don't like any other GABAergic drugs. Benzos give me nothing but extreme tiredness and reduction of brain activity, GHB and its cousins make me feel dizzy and not particularly happy or good, and I hate alcohol a lot.
Anyway, Dondante, I'd reduce the piracetam. You should start high to get a feel for it, but personally I only take 1 gram once per day in the morning and it works great. 1600mg 3 times per day may be a bit of an overkill. I'd suggest trying to lower the dose of that first. If you notice a reduction of effects, then raise it back some more until you find the sweet spot. I should also tell you that in my experience, once you come to be familiar with piracetam's effects, it's like you can utilize it better, so you need less for the same effect.
Also, hydergine sometimes causes a couple of side effects, which are a stuffy nose and a mild headache. Sometimes it also causes nausea. This should fade as your body gets used to it. I used to sometimes get headaches from it, but I haven't in quite some time. I found it a bit easier on me when it used to hurt my head to let it dissolve in my mouth and take it sublingually.
Also, lecithin is not the most effective acetylcholine producer there is. Centrophenoxine is great, though, and DMAE is cheaper by far and not as good, but better than lecithin. You should keep taking the lecithin, but also think about one of the others. The reason is because piracetam can cause headaches when you aren't supplementing your acetylcholine. You're taking alot, so it may just not be enough. Before buying anything else, you could try raising your lecithin dose. 800mg is not much at all. Personally I get it in bulk and take 1-2 tbsps of it in the morning.
Anyway, Dondante, I'd reduce the piracetam. You should start high to get a feel for it, but personally I only take 1 gram once per day in the morning and it works great. 1600mg 3 times per day may be a bit of an overkill. I'd suggest trying to lower the dose of that first. If you notice a reduction of effects, then raise it back some more until you find the sweet spot. I should also tell you that in my experience, once you come to be familiar with piracetam's effects, it's like you can utilize it better, so you need less for the same effect.
Also, hydergine sometimes causes a couple of side effects, which are a stuffy nose and a mild headache. Sometimes it also causes nausea. This should fade as your body gets used to it. I used to sometimes get headaches from it, but I haven't in quite some time. I found it a bit easier on me when it used to hurt my head to let it dissolve in my mouth and take it sublingually.
Also, lecithin is not the most effective acetylcholine producer there is. Centrophenoxine is great, though, and DMAE is cheaper by far and not as good, but better than lecithin. You should keep taking the lecithin, but also think about one of the others. The reason is because piracetam can cause headaches when you aren't supplementing your acetylcholine. You're taking alot, so it may just not be enough. Before buying anything else, you could try raising your lecithin dose. 800mg is not much at all. Personally I get it in bulk and take 1-2 tbsps of it in the morning.
Dondante
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I've lowered the piracetam to 1600 mg 2x per day, and upped the lecithin to 800 or 1200 mg 2x per day and the headaches are gone, but the focus is still there. I'm going to keep it here for a while to see how that goes.
I did order some centrophenoxine, vinpocetine, and phenibut though. I'll add the centro for sure, and maybe play around with the other two to get a feel for them. I doubt I'll stick with vinpocetine, but I figured why not give it a try.
Oh, and this is kind of weird, but I gave DMAE a try last year, and even a small dose made me really foggy-headed. I don't understand why, but it completely overcame any enhancement caused by the piracetam.
I did order some centrophenoxine, vinpocetine, and phenibut though. I'll add the centro for sure, and maybe play around with the other two to get a feel for them. I doubt I'll stick with vinpocetine, but I figured why not give it a try.
Oh, and this is kind of weird, but I gave DMAE a try last year, and even a small dose made me really foggy-headed. I don't understand why, but it completely overcame any enhancement caused by the piracetam.
Last edited:
solistus
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Bump.
I'm starting my attack dose (2.4g/day) of piracetam. Just took my first dose of it. The powder I ordered looks somewhat like granulated sugar and tastes moderately bitter; is this what piracetam should look and taste like?
On the plus side, the bitter taste of 'racetam (I haven't tried the phenibut powder yet, but according to Xorkoth I don't have much to look forward to in the taste dept. there either) makes the mild annoyance of spooning down tablespoons of soy granules to get my lecithin dose seem a lot less problematic
edit: btw, the phenibut is also white, but finer powder, almost like flour. I haven't tasted it yet; although I'm tempted to give it a run tonight, I would also like to be able to more clearly identify the effects of piracetam, so I might hold off till I get a feel for my new daily regimen.
I'm starting my attack dose (2.4g/day) of piracetam. Just took my first dose of it. The powder I ordered looks somewhat like granulated sugar and tastes moderately bitter; is this what piracetam should look and taste like?
On the plus side, the bitter taste of 'racetam (I haven't tried the phenibut powder yet, but according to Xorkoth I don't have much to look forward to in the taste dept. there either) makes the mild annoyance of spooning down tablespoons of soy granules to get my lecithin dose seem a lot less problematic
edit: btw, the phenibut is also white, but finer powder, almost like flour. I haven't tasted it yet; although I'm tempted to give it a run tonight, I would also like to be able to more clearly identify the effects of piracetam, so I might hold off till I get a feel for my new daily regimen.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I've got some info to add. Someone had some questions for me in a PM, and in my answers I added some thoughts and information:
That sounds exactly right. Piracetam pretty much looks like granulated sugar and tastes bitter but not at all overpowering, and phenibut is much finer white crystals/powder. Beware, as it tastes very strongly sour. It's not really bitter, but very, very sour. I take it dissolved in a small glass of water with my other nootropics, and after swigging down the glass, everything tastes sweet after the shock of sour to my tastebuds, even water.
I take usually 1 tbsp each morning. I usually just dump it in my mouth and swallow it all with a gulp of water, because I find soy lecithin to taste nutty and fairly decent. Sometimes I take 2 tbsps (which the package recommends). However, I also take centrophenoxine which is a better source of acetylcholine enhancement, so the maximum amount of lecithin is not needed. I would take 2 tbsps if you have only lecithin as your source.
A tip to help with taking lecithin is to dump your dose into a glass of water, or even better, juice or something tasty. Juice especially will totally hide the taste and makes it much easier to take.
Also, I know nootropics are recommended at 2-3 times per day, but personally, after I got accustomed to them, I found once per day after waking up to be perfectly adequate.
I think it's a good idea to start a bit high like you suggested, and twice per day. I would definitely drop to 800mg after you get used to the effects, because more doesn't really enhance it at that point in my experience. You should also after a little bit try taking it just once per day. If it seems less effective, then keep taking it twice per day; it definitely won't hurt you to take it 2-3 times per day, but if you don't need to, you might as well not.
Phenibut is a very unique substance that I grow to like more and more. It doesn't exactly "hit" like other drugs. it's very subtle. But at the same time, it's more "in your face" than other nootropics. It's really not fully a nootropic. it's like a blend between a nootropic and a relaxer/mood enhancer. As far as mood enhancement goes, it's more effective than any other nootropic I've taken. it's actually more effective for me than most things I've ever taken, but in a very subtle and natural-feeling way. When I take a small dose (~400mg), I can take it every day and maintain its very subtle effects, which are just to generally make it a little harder for me to get stressed or unhappy. When I take a full dose (~1.5 grams for me without tolerance), it takes about 3 hours to come on andthen lasts damn near all day. it provides a really great euphoria then, making me actively joyful. it also makes me paradoxically tired and stimulated at the same time with a full dose. When I sit around being bored on 1.5 grams, I tend to fall in and out of sleep, but when I'm doing something fun or exciting, it makes me feel really energetic and bounce around and talk a whole lot. My favorite use for phenibut is to take a full dose when I will be hanging out with friends all day, or partying. I also once took it with 2C-B-fly and that was one of the most beautiful and cleanest states of happiness I've been in before, without any side effects. When you take a full dose, tolerance develops pretty quickly so don't take them every day. I do, however, almost always take small doses each morning and haven't noticed a tolerance forming. I also take full doses on those mornings where I just feel down when I wake up.
It is somewhat like a benzo, but much, much better in my opinion, and more subtle. Personally, I dislike benzos greatly, as well as most other GABAergic drugs. Benzos especially give me no euphoria at all and reduce my mental processing power by a good amount. They turn me into a zombie even at low doses and many of them make me uncontrollably tired (xanax, klonopin, and some others). Phenibut does not reduce mental functioning at all, and produces significant euphoria in me.
The effects of phenibut are hard to explain, really. It's both strong and very subtle at the same time. It takes a brain that is able to detect subtle changes in mind state to benefit fully from it. However, I presume you are one of those brains!
Yes, without a choline supplement it does tend to cause headaches. Research seems to indicate that not taking a choline supplement does not cause any damage, and perhaps you would not get headaches. However, I recommend a choline supplement anyway because, at least for me, increased choline (and hence acetylcholine, which is the goal of iincreased choline) is very beneficial and enjoyable to an active mind, and synergizes with other nootropics. I prefer centrophenoxine to lecithin by far for acetylcholine enhancement, and you don't need much (just 100-200mg). But I still take lecithin with it because lecithin contains some other beneficial substances aside from choline, such as phosphatidylserine, beneficial fatty acids, and a few others.
That sounds exactly right. Piracetam pretty much looks like granulated sugar and tastes bitter but not at all overpowering, and phenibut is much finer white crystals/powder. Beware, as it tastes very strongly sour. It's not really bitter, but very, very sour. I take it dissolved in a small glass of water with my other nootropics, and after swigging down the glass, everything tastes sweet after the shock of sour to my tastebuds, even water.
I take usually 1 tbsp each morning. I usually just dump it in my mouth and swallow it all with a gulp of water, because I find soy lecithin to taste nutty and fairly decent. Sometimes I take 2 tbsps (which the package recommends). However, I also take centrophenoxine which is a better source of acetylcholine enhancement, so the maximum amount of lecithin is not needed. I would take 2 tbsps if you have only lecithin as your source.
A tip to help with taking lecithin is to dump your dose into a glass of water, or even better, juice or something tasty. Juice especially will totally hide the taste and makes it much easier to take.
Also, I know nootropics are recommended at 2-3 times per day, but personally, after I got accustomed to them, I found once per day after waking up to be perfectly adequate.
I think it's a good idea to start a bit high like you suggested, and twice per day. I would definitely drop to 800mg after you get used to the effects, because more doesn't really enhance it at that point in my experience. You should also after a little bit try taking it just once per day. If it seems less effective, then keep taking it twice per day; it definitely won't hurt you to take it 2-3 times per day, but if you don't need to, you might as well not.
Phenibut is a very unique substance that I grow to like more and more. It doesn't exactly "hit" like other drugs. it's very subtle. But at the same time, it's more "in your face" than other nootropics. It's really not fully a nootropic. it's like a blend between a nootropic and a relaxer/mood enhancer. As far as mood enhancement goes, it's more effective than any other nootropic I've taken. it's actually more effective for me than most things I've ever taken, but in a very subtle and natural-feeling way. When I take a small dose (~400mg), I can take it every day and maintain its very subtle effects, which are just to generally make it a little harder for me to get stressed or unhappy. When I take a full dose (~1.5 grams for me without tolerance), it takes about 3 hours to come on andthen lasts damn near all day. it provides a really great euphoria then, making me actively joyful. it also makes me paradoxically tired and stimulated at the same time with a full dose. When I sit around being bored on 1.5 grams, I tend to fall in and out of sleep, but when I'm doing something fun or exciting, it makes me feel really energetic and bounce around and talk a whole lot. My favorite use for phenibut is to take a full dose when I will be hanging out with friends all day, or partying. I also once took it with 2C-B-fly and that was one of the most beautiful and cleanest states of happiness I've been in before, without any side effects. When you take a full dose, tolerance develops pretty quickly so don't take them every day. I do, however, almost always take small doses each morning and haven't noticed a tolerance forming. I also take full doses on those mornings where I just feel down when I wake up.
It is somewhat like a benzo, but much, much better in my opinion, and more subtle. Personally, I dislike benzos greatly, as well as most other GABAergic drugs. Benzos especially give me no euphoria at all and reduce my mental processing power by a good amount. They turn me into a zombie even at low doses and many of them make me uncontrollably tired (xanax, klonopin, and some others). Phenibut does not reduce mental functioning at all, and produces significant euphoria in me.
The effects of phenibut are hard to explain, really. It's both strong and very subtle at the same time. It takes a brain that is able to detect subtle changes in mind state to benefit fully from it. However, I presume you are one of those brains!
5. Back on lecithin... From what I understand, the reason lecithin is uniquely important to a piracetam regimen is because, without a choline supplement, piracetam tends to cause headaches. Are these headaches symptoms of some damage/problematic condition, or are they the most severe side-effect of piracetam without supplementing choline? In other words, if I were to stop taking lechithin and did not experience headaches or other side-effects, would it be okay to stay off of it? As you may be able to tell, I really don't like taking lecithin
Yes, without a choline supplement it does tend to cause headaches. Research seems to indicate that not taking a choline supplement does not cause any damage, and perhaps you would not get headaches. However, I recommend a choline supplement anyway because, at least for me, increased choline (and hence acetylcholine, which is the goal of iincreased choline) is very beneficial and enjoyable to an active mind, and synergizes with other nootropics. I prefer centrophenoxine to lecithin by far for acetylcholine enhancement, and you don't need much (just 100-200mg). But I still take lecithin with it because lecithin contains some other beneficial substances aside from choline, such as phosphatidylserine, beneficial fatty acids, and a few others.
e1evene1even
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Ximot said:
Well, Albert Hoffman, the person who created Hydergine and some other well know drug, seems to be in quite good mental and physical health. As far as I know, he takes Hydergine daily. Not what you are asking for, but food for thought nonetheless.
Personally, I find Piracetam is great. For me the trick was to take an attack dose 6-8 pills and then afterwards I could take one pill and definitely feel the effects. I can actually feel increased energy (alpha waves) in my frontal lobes. The first time I took any nootropics, it was an attack dose of piracetam and 2 hydergine pills, although placebo was likely a factor, the increase in mental abilities was astounding.
It also mixes great with cannabis in my experience. My only intentional combination with psychedelics was when I took some a few hours after taking 1/2 hit of acid and about 3-4 hours before taking 10-15mg of 2C-I. The trip was amazing and I believe the Piracetam was a key component in the combination.
I'm interested in using it as both a potentiator and neuro-protector with MDA. I have read about combinations with MDMA that seemed very positive, I wonder if the same would hold true for MDA? The only concern is that it may amplify the more psychedelic effects of MDA which can sometimes be extremely strange on their own.
Has anyone heard of any piracetam combos with intense short-acting psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT, DMT or salvia?
cobaltdemon
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i have recently started a piracetam/phenylalanine regime, for about a week now i've been taking attack doses of about 2000-3000mg (depending on how i'm feeling) once a day at the same time as the phenylalanine (~700mg) and a 1200mg lecithin cap.
I realise it can take a month for the effects of piracetam to be fully realised, i however, have definately already noticed a difference in some areas, BUT usually only for 3-4 hours after i take it, after which tiredness, apathy and lethargy set in and i dont feel like doing anything. Is this a side-efect that will go away when my body is more used to it, or will smaller normal doses fix it? i have tried taking it twice a day but the second time in the afternoon seems to have no effect on the lethargy that has set in.
Has anyone else experienced this tiredness on piracetam?
I realise it can take a month for the effects of piracetam to be fully realised, i however, have definately already noticed a difference in some areas, BUT usually only for 3-4 hours after i take it, after which tiredness, apathy and lethargy set in and i dont feel like doing anything. Is this a side-efect that will go away when my body is more used to it, or will smaller normal doses fix it? i have tried taking it twice a day but the second time in the afternoon seems to have no effect on the lethargy that has set in.
Has anyone else experienced this tiredness on piracetam?
TacticalBongRip
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Hey guys, was just reading through this thread as I have other similar ones in the past about Nootropics.
I am interested in trying out a Nootropic regimen but whenever I come upon these threads all the different names and types get my head to spinning8( .
So I am wondering what you guys would recommend for someone like me who smokes Cannabis everyday (usually at night) and takes Adderall almost daily when I first wake up?
Would it be a bad idea to mix Adderall with Nootropics?
Piracetam seems to be the most common and most spoken about Nootropic, would you say its the most effective of the bunch?
Sorry I'm kind of rambling here...any information would be well appreciated. THanks and have a sweet day
I am interested in trying out a Nootropic regimen but whenever I come upon these threads all the different names and types get my head to spinning8( .
So I am wondering what you guys would recommend for someone like me who smokes Cannabis everyday (usually at night) and takes Adderall almost daily when I first wake up?
Would it be a bad idea to mix Adderall with Nootropics?
Piracetam seems to be the most common and most spoken about Nootropic, would you say its the most effective of the bunch?
Sorry I'm kind of rambling here...any information would be well appreciated. THanks and have a sweet day
TacticalBongRip
Bluelighter
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bump, because im interested in a response 
bingalpaws
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if you're not getting hte mental boost you're looking for from adderral, don't get your hopes up for piracetam.
also should add that I've tried all of the common nootropics and never, ever noticed anything significant enough that I didn't write it off as placebo. Nor have I ever found much convincing studies done on normal humans using nootropics for a boost (although I hear provigil is proving itself, dunno much about that tho). As far as the classical nootropics like piracetam, I've never seen many quality studies showing they boost brain power.
also should add that I've tried all of the common nootropics and never, ever noticed anything significant enough that I didn't write it off as placebo. Nor have I ever found much convincing studies done on normal humans using nootropics for a boost (although I hear provigil is proving itself, dunno much about that tho). As far as the classical nootropics like piracetam, I've never seen many quality studies showing they boost brain power.
mobblunted
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I was thinking about getting some of those GetSmart pills from
http://www.smartnutrition.info/brain.html
and adding piracetam and hydergine.
Im excited to try some nootropics now thanks to Xorkoths experiences.
I hope I get similar results.
http://www.smartnutrition.info/brain.html
and adding piracetam and hydergine.
Im excited to try some nootropics now thanks to Xorkoths experiences.
I hope I get similar results.
bingalpaws
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does anyone have any links to studies showing positive memory/cognition effects in healthy humans for any of the popular nootropics? Preferably studies showing long term usage, but any studies would be interesting (all I've ever found, aside from anecdotal reports, were studies on animals or the elderly who already had decreased cognitive activities).
shamus
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Peppermint Fear said:
What about tryptophan?
It needs to metabolised twice and hence SHOULD make it to the brain (or so I've heard).
solistus said:
*disconcerting hmmmmm...*
B6 hangs around for a while no?
I myself would be cautious (no more than one continuous week that is).
bingalpaws
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I have, and I haven't found any that were reputable studies (at least double blind, placebo controlled), and done on demographics that we care about (I could care less if piracetam helps alzheimers patients - I want to see a respected study showing me that a group of 18-34 year old subjects were given either placebo or (insert whatever noot here) on a daily regimen for a year, and were tested during that year, and that the noot group did better on cognitive tests. Then I'd feel more secure.shamus said:
By the way, I haven't gone to their boards since that whole issue where their resident know it all, their board superstar, turned out to be running a company selling the crap he was pushing on the boards. I think that event alone drew a huge blow against imminst and the noot trade in general.
I've gone back and forth on noot boards too, looking for valid, younger human studies. I've never found much more than a poorly designed study that showed *potential* benefits.
I haven't been there in a while, so I could very well be wrong. I would be highly interested if you'd grab us all a couple studies from over there that show nootropics boosting cognitive power in our age bracket (late teens to 30's/40's), especially one that looked a little further donw the road (like at least 6 months).
bingalpaws
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I have read in multiple places that not using choline or a choline precursor with any of the racetams is what can cause that.