NEWS: Move to Ban Meth Pipes in Victoria - Herald Sun - 12/01/03

[Fry-d-]

But if you didn't know the pipe existed you wouldn't be looking for the meth.

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

This drug is no good and if banning ice pipes will stop people using it for the first time then I am all for it.

How exactly does this work? and don't forget, buddy. That Ice IS meth, you got no pipe, you crush it up, maybe cut it with some glucose and voila, you have what you journo's call 'speed'.
It's all the same shit. just different purities.

 

[Munchee]

Are they talking about Methamphetamine or 4-methyaminorex?

 

[Splatt]

I am confused what drug we are talking about Ice is the slang term for an amphetamine called 4-MAR (check erowid.org for details), and it is NOT methamphetamines.

I believe meth is a bad drug. I have friends that have lost lives from it, and also in mental institutes. If you DO get hooked, which may be harder than most people think, you'll be most likely staying up for days, and sometimes a week binge on it.

So even if i hate the drug, I still think banning meth pipes is a bad way to go about this. I reckon the law should be, not on display, but behind the counter. Banning the sale of pipes will just, as two people have mentioned, lead to people smoking off foil. Which is a great way to damage your lungs, and possibly get brain damage. There are even study's (not sure how recent) linking smoking foil to alzheimers.

Look, we all know the emdia will take any shot at drugs and the drug scene when they can. It gives them credit from all the old and straight people that try to run the country out there

We both need to learn. ABuse doesn't get you far, people will not take you seriously, and the media needs to learn how to research and not just join in on the expensive war on drugs. This site is about Harm Minimisation. That is how drugs should be handled. Making them more illegal, leads to more use. There is now a black amrket for things like that.

 

[killarava2day]

I really doubt many people see a meth pipe for sale and say to themselves, "Hmm, well that sure makes me curious I think I might go track down some meth and experiment. I am almost certain that 99% of people have access to meth before they purchase a pipe and would use that meth regardless of whether the pipes are available or not.

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

^^^^ too true.

 

[phase_dancer]

I wrote the article and am yet to read one arguement or criticism that has any validity.

First of all thanks for posting on Bluelight. Please remember Bluelight is largely a drug using community and deals with issues of meth abuse all the time. Very few regular poster here are not fully aware of the problems associated with meth abuse. It is a drug of potential abuse, no-one is doubting that.

People are quick to lay into the Herald Sun but how am I supposed to take your opinion seriously if you don't actually put an argument forward, just abuse.

I can understand your reaction, but we have pages of examples on this board, from your newspaper and others in other states, where gross misrepresentations have been evident. Suppositions based upon other unsubstantiated claims. So yes, there are those here who are biased.

All week I have been getting calls from families who have brothers, sons and daughters hooked on ice. I had a guy call who checked himself into a mental institution the day before because ice gave him psychosis.

As someone actively involved in Harm Reduction since 1999, I too have had the calls and seen the desperation in parents and friends. This is further extended to users themselves; not just interventions but ongoing counseling and reassurance. From an occasional users perspective, I believe that I have a good idea of the typical outcomes from excessive meth use. But it is also well known and seen often, that many users, even meth smokers, do regulate and restrict their use of the drug.

When the perspective is realised, the futility in taking away a safer means of administration can be seen to do nothing but breed desperation and resourcefulness.

Prohibition has never worked. Prohibiting implements never has either.

Mental wards are full of people from 18-27 who have become paranoid, violent and unhinged because of ice. Speak to any psych nurse if you don't believe me.

Mental wards are full of people who have psychological problems, few of which are related solely and wholly to drug use. What makes a person abandon all previous commitment and responsibility for a high?

Lots of other stuff at play here; upbringing, first love experiences, general self confidence etc, etc. Time bombs of emotional unsettlement waiting for the catalyst (drug) to bombard the consciousness with inadequacy and realisation. More often than not these are problems borne from modern society. Drugs bend but it's the the previously unconsciously withered soul who breaks.

This drug is no good and if banning ice pipes will stop people using it for the first time then I am all for it.

If you want to go to the trouble of constructing your own ice pipe then good luck to you, but you are completely naive if you don't recognise this drug ruins people's lives.

I don't really think many, if anyone at all, will go to the trouble of following my procedure to making pipes. It was somewhat a tongue n cheek post, intended to outline the simplicity of side stepping the intent of proposed legislation. People who use drugs via a certain method of administration can learn another method, or they can abstain forever. But that comes from personal choice. Rehab does nothing for someone who doesn't want to stop, really want to stop. I see it all the time. Best rehab comes from friends' support, but not all can or have the time necessary. Under current social structures, some will always be destined to be left by the wayside.

When you couldn't get syringes legally, most dealers of heroin had or knew where to obtain a pick. Meth when smoked doesn't need any special equipment to vapourise the crystal. But the choice of apparatus could seriously affect the health of the user, ultimately being an expense to the state in future medical related costs which may greatly outweigh present costs, both emotional and financial to society. Same goes for water filtered pipes for marijuana and/or tobacco. Who will be responsible when the well known and documented benefits of bong smoking finally result in relaxing laws on possessing a bong. Even tobacco smokers could be suing governments for failing to encourage safer practice, when it is known and proven to be a safer practice if the bong is not shared.

I would never imply that smoking meth is not highly dangerous. It can certainly be a trap for those susceptible. I tried it, and didn't like it so I don't do it. But that's my opinion based on my personal likes and dislikes as well as knowing full well of the potential in getting too involved by continuing use until I do find it tasty.

Education and awareness are the keys. Not putting pipes back in the closet.


Just one more thing. My confidence in the accuracy of Newspapers in general can be expressed as a negative figure. The day newspaper articles quote complete scientific publication references for any and all claims will be when I read them again.

Will this ever happen? It's just my opinion, but with the general education of society set to escalate appreciably over the next decade, I think it will be the only way newspapers will attract viable levels of subscribers.

Thanks again the journo for replying to the thread. I hope this hasn't come accross as a personal attack. It was not my intention, and I welcome any comment or flame

phase_dancer

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

great post P_D. *applause*

To the journo, please continue to reply to this thread as it is definatley a first that a journo has replied on this site in order to defend their article.
I hope to god that the time you spend here (please click around) you see the otherside of the coin where education is more effective than prohibition and that the 'take a drug once and you're fucked' mentailty is thrown out the window. Please gain an open mind whilst here.
Cheers

 

[the journo]

Pipes are passed around parties like joints these days and that does attact first time users who might not otherwise try the drug.
Remove the pipe and remove the sexiness of its use.
I don't think you will find too many first time users who think smoking a drug off foil is particularly attractive.
And serious ice users, as I said, if they are so concerned about the dangers of smoking off foil (I would have thought anyone so wary of damaging their health wouldn't use the drug anyway) they can make their own pipe.

 

[killarava2day]

I am confused what drug we are talking about Ice is the slang term for an amphetamine called 4-MAR (check erowid.org for details), and it is NOT methamphetamines.

4-MAR is virtually unknown in Australia and, for better or worse, when people refer to "ice" they are referring to methamphetamine. Whether we like it or not language evolves, and i think it is churlish to try and maintain old definitions when they are not being used that way in the real world. The whole 4-MAR thing is really a red-herring IMO because of its lack of availability (due to the fact, afaik, of it being an inferior drug and not likely to make any major appearance anytime soon) people aren't going to be making any indentification mistakes if they never see the stuff.

Just my $0.02 though...

 

[killarava2day]

Journo- Can you tell me just how the law would be able to define just what is an ice-pipe and what is merely a piece of pyrex glass? It seems to me that any legislation passed in this respect would be widely open to interpretation and would be a nightmare to try and enforce. What about items such as pyrex oil-vapourisers, which have a perfectly legitimate use but could easily double as an ice-pipe? Would they be legislated, thereby harming perfectly legitimate businesses? Personally, I think it would ultimately be a paper-tiger, an unenforcable reactionary law that does nothing to stop wave of methamphetamine abuse currently affecting Melbourne.

 

[phase_dancer]

I think it's safe to conclude 99.99% of "ice" pipes sold in this country are used to smoke methamphetamine, as a crystal or in a less pure form ("base")


sexiness happens in the kitchen and bedrooms too and curiosity is definitely aroused by secrecy and mystique. Get "it" out on open, dispel all untruths, and make informed decisions.

Meth smokers are the base jumpers of drug use. You probably won't convince them it's so potentially dangerous that they should stop jumping, but then again you certainly don't take away their harnesses and chutes regardless.

 

[Munchee]

Hmm, I am very curious as to which parties you have been to that pipes are passed around like joints. The cost of sharing a joint with a few mates is far cheaper passing around a pipe with high grade methamphetamine (I have considered that this is what we are talking about). It was in your own words that a hit costs $40, do you honestly think that people are going to frequently throw away $40 in passing around a pipe.

If you wish to talk about the sexiness of administration, talk to any cocaine user. Watch any popular culture films that include drug taking. Insufflation would generally be considered a far sexier method of ingestion.

I agree that pipes should not be displayed in shop windows and even in the counters at paraphenalia shop. If they are tucked away discretely behind the counter it would be a far better option.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

It would be simple to enforce, any smoking paraphernalia shop selling glass pipes is breaking the law. If someone chooses to buy glassware that has legitimate use in other industries and use it as a meth pipe then that is unenforceable.

 

[killarava2day]

And anyway, bugger $40 ice-pipes when you can whip up a $0.99 lightbulb pipe, they always break anyway, why waste the extra cash?

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

Pipes are passed around parties like joints these days and that does attact first time users who might not otherwise try the drug.

Bullshit. Take me too a party of 16 year olds and show me a meth pipe. Have YOU ever seen this? Someone who uses speed is someone who has already taken those fisrt few steps into 'hard' illicit drugs. If I went to my mates house who are pot heads, they wouldn't smoke it if i had my SEXY pipe. You're looking at this issue through one eye. People aren't robots, they make their OWN decisions. I still do NOT see that taking meth pipes off the market will curb the meth abuse going on. Meth pipes have ALWAYS been on the shelf. Maybe you should talk to all the people IMPORTING it.

Does the fact that our country is SOAKED in crystal meth make a difference? Come on mate, I'm sure you're not that slow to realise the demand makes the supply. People want to experiment, and they will.

Meth is addictive, yes. But i'd hate to inform you that there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between drug use and drug abuse. Just because it is illegal doesn't make it BAD!!!!!
There's a thread here somewhere that tobacco makes up for ~90% of deaths while illicit drugs make up the other 10.....hmmm.

I've had a few beers so i will say what i was going to...

I smoked/snorted whizz heavely over the last 6 months. Yes i knew that what i was doing wasn't a good thing. Yes I had worked myself into a heavy psychological addiction. But now I haven't touched it for 2.5 months. What I went through I almost wish most people could because what you learn about yourself is impossible to write.

I have grown internally like you could not imagine. I know that I am a better person than most as I do not pass judgment as swiftly as you 'norms'. For god sake get your head out of your ass and realise there's a reason people use 'illegal' drugs (minus the fact they're more enlightning than the great drug alcohol...did you realise alcohol is a drug?????).
Funny how all the RICH kids are smoking it? Heaven forbid, trhose RICH kids much be so much better and more improtant than those damn upper/middle class/lower class citizens.....you make me sick

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

Also, it takes A LOT of meth abuse to get those fantastic 'psychotic' attacks you speak so highly of. I know of people who have used meth for YEARS and are passing University with High Distrinctions.....imagine that....wow.....

 

[killarava2day]

It would be simple to enforce, any smoking paraphernalia shop selling glass pipes is breaking the law. If someone chooses to buy glassware that has legitimate use in other industries and use it as a meth pipe then that is unenforceable.

Yes. But most paraphenalia shops also sell incense and aromatic oils, so they get rid of their ice-pipes and start stocking a hell of a lot more incense/oil burners. They have a legitimate use therefore are still legal, regardless of the fact that they will for the most part be bought and used to consume methamphetamine. So where do you start drawing the line? It is just a matter of semantics, all a retailer has to do is sell the items as having another purpose, which illustrates the uselessness of banning something as innocuous as a piece of pyrex.

 

[phase_dancer]

I know of people who have used meth for YEARS and are passing University with High Distrinctions

...and put the rest of us at a distinct disadvantage

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

maybe ice should be compulsery at educational institutions.......