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News: Ecstasy damages complex memory: study

These test results biscuit comes up with are interesting. That said - his samples would be from those seized by police? Which would equate to a very small amount of the E in this country.

I second-guess the notion that MDMA is generally the only active in pills - and i'd question why are the reactions i have to E tablets generally so negative now? compared to 2003-2004 when everyone agrees the tablets were much better. I doubt purity of the substance is the issue.

The trips im referring to have been over a space of the last 4 years, every so often i'll have a great pill, and i know its MDMA, and can almost guess the dosage. But generally, i have a pill - and i'll begin to feel ill, lack empathy, feel slightly stimulated, and munted - but again, no empathy. Which i believe isthe key factor to me taking a stab in the dark and making the assumption that the tablet contains little to no MDMA. This is also comparing the tablets in question to pure samples of MDMA that i have aquired in the past. I'd also note that i very rarely engage in taking E - and would these days sooner go for some mephedrone or methylone over taking an unpredictable E.

Biscuit - what government agency do you work for? And if you could actually release some information to us that would better substanciate your claims, perhaps the general public would benefit?

Also i'd like to add, ecstacydata.org has data that directly contradicts your claims. There are thousands of adulterated tablets on that site. compared to 04' when the majority of the pills were MDMA in the reports on that site
 
I can definitely vouch for the negative effects of prolonged MDxx use over time, even if it is not in large doses... the point is the frequency...and yes, it is worse at a younger age. taking pills at 21 and taking them in ones mid-twenties is drastically different. however I have re-trained my brain to remember things and taken supplements such as fish oil/5htp to salvage the remaining brain cells. now that I have backed off heaps I don't have nearly as much trouble with memory, but it got to a point about a year and a half ago where I was forgetting way too much shit for comfort. that probably had something to do with prolonged meth use as well I imagine.
 
Did you combine the two together in high doses? I found the combination of meth/MDMA to be particularly debilitating, by themselves I never had much trouble with either, but once I started combining the two I could almost feel the braincells frying away. I certainly refuse to take them anywhere near eachother now.
 
Not necessarily (meth kills/detracts from my rolls), but they were used alternately around the same periods of time... I never really had any trouble with meth on its own, however I am careful and controlled with my MDxx doses these days, as I have always had a phobia of giving over to them too much and living to regret it (as many people have reported doing).
 
Crankinit said:
Did you combine the two together in high doses? I found the combination of meth/MDMA to be particularly debilitating, by themselves I never had much trouble with either, but once I started combining the two I could almost feel the braincells frying away. I certainly refuse to take them anywhere near eachother now.
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A lot of pills here in adelaide that did contain MDxx before the great evil pipe influx contained small amounts of meth as well. Quite often MDEA and meth. Not a nice combo for the brain.
 
I can understand the scepticism from everyone and in particular what you have to say Mr Ibis, which I almost always generally agree with and find inherently sensible and well informed.

I don't work for any government department. The source of the information might, so this is admittedly hearsay, but I trust the source 100%, and have seen the evidence on a couple of occasions. I really cannot say more than that.

The testing is thorough and will quote anything remotely interesting in there, plus the quantity of the principal ingredients. (Binders and precursors excluded)

Of course these details come from seizures, so it is probably the tip of the iceberg, but there comes a time when there is enough sampled for it to become statistically relevant. If you keep getting similar results, over and over again, you can reliably draw inferences from those results. The testing is beyond reproach because it has to be.

There is no doubt there are probably more adulterated pills out there than those most recent results suggest. What I am trying to convey is the notion that MDMA only pills are hard to come by, or are actually exceedingly rare, is not born out by those results. When you look at the results over the past few years, MDMA only pills are in the majority. Even if across all pills 50% are MDMA only and 50% are something else, that is still a lot more than people are saying is the case currently.

As for piperazines, there is no doubt at all that the % of these out there has skyrocketed in the last 1-2 years. Prior to that they would rarely be seen. Now they are always seen, and in the results I have been communicated recently, in statistically high numbers. They are far an away the most common adulterant.

The individual maintains that of the results the person has seen over many years now, hundreds and hundreds, MDA and MDEA remain rare, especially the latter.

All I can do is pass on the results. I cannot explain them. It certainly does not necessarily reflect what is happening elsewhere in the world. Maybe not even in other states. And you are entitled to use them and draw from them what you will, as compared to your own experiences, which I hope includes reagent testing.

I am getting this off topic, although it does relate to something mentioned in the article.

For what it is worth, there is no doubt in my mind that prolonged MDMA use effects concentration and memory, especially of the more complex kind.
 
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It depends on how large a time frame we're looking at. If you go back, say, 3 years, then yeah, the majority would contain MDMA. But over the last 12 months there's been a huge drop in quality nation wide. There literally hasn't been a batch of decent pills in Adelaide in 6 months, and I'm told the same about Brisbane and Melbourne. Sydney seems to be doing somewhat better, but in the rest of the country MDMA is almost nonexistant right now.
 
^ That is the true. The latest round may be from beans that were actually on the streets 4-8 months ago. It can never reflect what is happening currently because analysing these things does not occur immediately. That is one inherent flaw in the whole thing.
 
Biscuit: I appreciate the kind comments as to my credentials, and the vague explanation of your data. It's extremely useful to see a different conclusion on these matters that contradicts the general consensus.

I accept that your results are statisically sound, and a valid way to draw an opinion other than anecdotal evidence that suggests quite the opposite. But i further wish to ask have you yourself been taking E in the past few years? and what your anecdotal ideas would entail?

Because based on the stats, if there truly is that much MDMA around, what the fuck is wrong with the gear?
 
There is always the possibility that the prevailance of MDMA busts have been made due to potential leaks/police infiltration of areas specific to MDMA (ie Safrole importation etc.). Just a crazy theory though :p

Biscuit; do you have any data of the seized pills that are passed on to the lab?
 
MrIbis said:
Biscuit: I appreciate the kind comments as to my credentials, and the vague explanation of your data. It's extremely useful to see a different conclusion on these matters that contradicts the general consensus.

I accept that your results are statisically sound, and a valid way to draw an opinion other than anecdotal evidence that suggests quite the opposite. But i further wish to ask have you yourself been taking E in the past few years? and what your anecdotal ideas would entail?

Because based on the stats, if there truly is that much MDMA around, what the fuck is wrong with the gear?
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Although I agree with you, certainly my experience has been actually MAJORITY pipes, thought I'd post this anyway.

Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote, or hearsay. The term is usually used in contrast to scientific evidence, especially evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific because it cannot be investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy and is sometimes informally referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) The problem with arguing based on anecdotal evidence is that anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical; only statistical evidence can determine how typical something is.
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I haven't read this entire thread BUT regarding the claim in New Scientist about adulterants in pills, the New Scientist artical was based on a UK study & tests of UK pills. Furthermore its more than a year old is it not? Pillreports, however dubious, is probably more relevant to Aus than a generalised comment in a UK publication.
 
^ Right,

Chemi, i don't get why you used that reference, it just points out exactly what i was saying? Statistical evidence is correct, and given that factor, it is the fact of the matter. However, when talking about street e, the amout of variables is extremely large, and one can only grasp a good concept of how good any particular pill is by anecdotal evidence coupled with statistical evidence about the said pill to make an informed decision. It's also known that street ecstacy varies from batch to batch, based on what the presser has available to him at that time. So one tested pill of the same press can vary greatly from another identical tablet.
 
Demanufacturer said:
Who says the e users weren't idiots in the first place?

the majority of users that i know aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed plus all my anti-drug friends are the ones who study real hard and get good grades.

I'm not denying MDxx substance's neurotoxicity, just saying that it's hard to get accurate results with these types of studies.
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I was going to raise the same point. Who's to say they didn't just choose stupid drug users, and intelligent non-drug users? Still, you'd be a fool to think E, or any other drug for that matter, is without some risk.
 
WitchfinderGeneral said:
... Who's to say they didn't just choose stupid drug users, and intelligent non-drug users? ...
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I don't know about these kind of studies specifically but I do know that universities get subjects for scientific studies by advertising in the newspaper and by advertising on campus/through uni emails, so a lot of test subjects end up being uni students.

In my personal experience pill users vary from people who are jibbering idiots, to those who are highly intelligent and well educated. The vast spectrum of pill user's natural intellects probably makes it even harder to evaluate negative long term effects, as some were probably poor performers to begin with while others are worse than they used to be but still better than average.

I'm allways curious about how frequency of use, and quantities used, relate to the negative effects, but as these variables are completely out of studies' control little seems to be said about it anywhere in detail, other than "more is worse".
 
So you have just summed it up "moderateuser"...no one knows the damage/good things (i cant believe i said "good things") that mdma causes to the human body, There wildly skewed views that can be taken either way.....just depends on how the data is interpreted. I think i should go to bed now...because i am not making sense.... Just be careful fellow BL ppl. xxx
 
I haven't read the article as my eyes are stinging at this time of night, but were these people given 100% lab grade MDMA or street "ecstasy"?
 
I guarentee that in that survey the ecstasy users have used other drugs aswell including cannabis.

Not saying that MDMA doesn't do damage, but for a survey to be truly reliable u need to see all the questions and how the majority answered question by question. Rather then articles just highlighting the points that they wanna make.

And of course MDMA does some damage, thats been known since 1984 when it was first banned world wide lol. Atlhough admittably alot of the info back then was very dodgey.
Did you know the paper that pushed mdma over the line to be made illegal showed that a single pill could give you parkinsons disease.

It turns out that paper wasn't using MDMA it was infact methamphetamenes used on a monkey >.< GOD DAMMIT!

Sorry bout my rant... I just want some MDMA to help me relax :P
 
It's pretty funny to see the difference between the abc article and the new scientist article muddymatt posted.

It shows how much something can be distorted, to the point of not even reflecting the truth in any way, shape or form.

Also it would help if they added some HR techniques in there too. Like taking vitamin C before, during and after and fish oil, 5HTP etc.

Not really useful at all to just say it harms your memory.

Memory is overrated anyway, we don't NEED to remember half the shit that we do.
 
thestudent14 said:
I guarentee that in that survey the ecstasy users have used other drugs aswell including cannabis.

Not saying that MDMA doesn't do damage, but for a survey to be truly reliable u need to see all the questions and how the majority answered question by question. Rather then articles just highlighting the points that they wanna make.

And of course MDMA does some damage, thats been known since 1984 when it was first banned world wide lol. Atlhough admittably alot of the info back then was very dodgey.
Did you know the paper that pushed mdma over the line to be made illegal showed that a single pill could give you parkinsons disease.

It turns out that paper wasn't using MDMA it was infact methamphetamenes used on a monkey >.< GOD DAMMIT!

Sorry bout my rant... I just want some MDMA to help me relax :P
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I see you've viewed "Ecstasy Rising"? Fantastic documentary, i have it on my external HDD if anyone can refer me to a place to upload it i'll do so, everyone should see it.
 
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