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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Newcomers - Cold Water Extraction: Method Do's & Don'ts

Well, talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy. Thanks for turning a genuinely useful HR thread into an idiotic slanging match, with you playing the role of the idiot.

Dry your eyes mate. Ironically you have just done exactly the same thing you are crying about.
 
Mate i been doing this for ages, If i was to take 80 ml of cold water it would take 2 hours for the pills to dissolve if they are zap 30/500. If i use warm water its 10 minutes . it also takes longer to filter 16 of these zaps then it does 32 OTC strength 8/500.

Capsules piss through the filter in 5-8 mins as opposed to over an hour. Big difference and its purely down the lack of titanium dioxide that smooth coating on the pills.

I didn't mean it wasn't quicker. I was meaning your assertion that capsules contain no binders. Yes strictly they aren't "bound" but many people when they refer to binders mean additives in general (apologies as it seems you didn't mean it in that context).

I've personally been on pain meds for 20 years and although I'm on a sufficiently high dose at the minute there don't have to do CWEs but when I was only on a low dose of codeine I did hundreds of them and it never took 2 hours to dissolve the pills (although I used more than 80 ml of water - but also more tablets so swings and roundabouts)

I'm not disagreeing with you though....... as if you use cold water it will take ages for them to dissolve. What I personally did (and what many recommend) is to dissolve the tablets in quite warm water (hot but nowhere near boiling). This dissolves everything very quickly if it's agitated continuously. I would let this cool while it's being stirred and filter it like it is. I would then take what had passed through the filter paper and then cool this solution with ice before re-filtering this now cooled solution. I found this the most efficient way first of getting everything dissolved by using warm water and second cutting down on the APAP by cooling the first filtrate before re-filtering (also lots of people forget to use wet filter papers as dry ones will attract the codeine solution up the paper by osmosis thus losing a bit)

I do admit this takes a loooong time but I was more concerned with accuracy than time (The second round of filtering I would often leave overnight with it filtering in the fridge to keep the temp down).

You're are completely right that capsules might shave some time off this but they are often much more expensive than standard Co-codamol which can be as little as just over a quid depending on where you get them (not sure what "zaps" are). The capsule version are a lot more and if you go for branded ones then much, much more (plus branded ones often contain caffeine which won't be removed in a CWE).

Anyway I pleased we've brought the discussion back onto the topic of CWEs :)

The notion that this forum has an HR focus is a joke.

True mate (to an extent) but HR is the only reason I'm here so I personally will do everything I can to keep it moving in that direction although sometimes it feels like swimming against the current. I must say though the banning of one particular member has brought the pointless, childish drama "vibe" down several notches (pun intended) :))

PS - hope you're doing well today Cat and things and not feeling under the weather since the recent detox. Glad it's been relatively pain free for you and a very well done from me :)
 
Im on about script strength dude and its the same price, ive never even seen anything but the Caplets in Pharmacies (easy to swallow pills). Zaps are just generic 30/500's tablets

Yeh the zaps pissed me off because at the time i had 2 meagre doses of kratom for 2 days and i was in wd's and just didnt have the paitence and ended up drinking alot of oxide due to rushing the filtering, but like i said if i use warm water its fine still takes a while to filter though. When i used cold water on them they almost turn into a thick glue 8) its like the cold water just cant break them down properly. You can feel the difference just stirring the pills its so much thicker as opposed to the caps where its just like water.

I dont have that sort of time to spend on extractions either, quicker the better obviously when i first started i would give myself all the time in the world but these days not a chance.
 
Lol, exactly.

The notion that this forum has an HR focus is a joke.

codeine thread aint much difference then the heroin thread just a bunch of people that realized an extra Void in their life wasn't a great idea. Just reading these threads imo will put some people off. Reality is you will always get people that wont listen and will fuck themselves. Some people never learn their lessons till they have fked up where as some people will actually listen.

Just reading certain threads about certain drugs on this site puts me off.
 
Im on about script strength dude and its the same price, ive never even seen anything but the Caplets in Pharmacies (easy to swallow pills). Zaps are just generic 30/500's tablets

Yeh the zaps pissed me off because at the time i had 2 meagre doses of kratom for 2 days and i was in wd's and just didnt have the paitence and ended up drinking alot of oxide due to rushing the filtering, but like i said if i use warm water its fine still takes a while to filter though. When i used cold water on them they almost turn into a thick glue 8) its like the cold water just cant break them down properly. You can feel the difference just stirring the pills its so much thicker as opposed to the caps where its just like water.

I dont have that sort of time to spend on extractions either, quicker the better obviously when i first started i would give myself all the time in the world but these days not a chance.

Apologies I didn't realise you meant prescription strength 30/500s, I though you meant the OTC 8/500s which are stupid money for the capsule type......my mistake

The method I was outlining does take ages your right but since it was to supplement my codeine phosphate script I wasn't in a rush.

The quantity of water does make a big difference in getting them to dissolve and obviously you don't want to use too much. In hindsight, I probably did use too much water but I always thought as long as I did the second filtration with the water cold enough, the total APAP content would still be within fairly safe limits.

Definitely though, dissolving in warm water so that everything dissolves (codeine and APAP) then either filtering that solution and then cooling and re-filtering the resultant liquid was my most successful method (The proviso being that I had plenty time and wasn't in a hurry). After the first filtration the liquid should contain all the codeine and a large part of the APAP. When the ice was then added, the theory being that the APAP would precipitate out of solution but the codeine wouldn't. It was then re-filtered to get the end product.

Just dissolving in cold water and then filtering never seemed to give as good a yield for me personally when compared to doing the initial dissolving in very warm water, filtering, cooling then re-filtering. Perhaps this method could be called a hot/cold extraction lol!

It's interesting debating different techniques/outcomes with someone like yourself who has don't it all before lots of times (as I myself have).

Hopefully first timers who haven't done it before may be able to pick up some important HR tips from our discussion and in the end that's the goal.

What did you estimate your yield at using the method you describe (I imagine yield using 30/500 tabs would be better than 5/500 as so many aspects become intrinsically easier with the RX strength tabs/caps.
 
True mate (to an extent) but HR is the only reason I'm here so I personally will do everything I can to keep it moving in that direction although sometimes it feels like swimming against the current. I must say though the banning of one particular member has brought the pointless, childish drama "vibe" down several notches (pun intended) :))

PS - hope you're doing well today Cat and things and not feeling under the weather since the recent detox. Glad it's been relatively pain free for you and a very well done from me :)

Don't get me wrong HR still goes on but a focus on it there is not.

I've actually got a lot of time for Evey. I know a lot of people find her difficult and yeah she's a little bit nuts but she's harmless imo. I don't agree with everything she says by a long way but I don't think she's intentionally unpleasant to anyone and I think it's really shitty that a forum with a supposed HR focus can't find a place for her. By the very nature of drugs, where they are you will find people who are difficult to deal with. Somewhere like this should aim to bring those people closer and help them rather than push them away imo, those who are most difficult to deal with are often those who need that help the most.

Thankyou for the encouragement! Save the congratulations for when I've managed to actually string together a decent stretch of clean time though eh=D Getting clean has never been my problem, it's staying clean. I'm feeling really quite good actually, getting off the benzos seems to have made a HUGE difference to my head. Life actually seems worth living again and I'm so grateful I'm getting positive changes happening quite quickly. Hope you are well too man.:)
 
Very good i can get pinned on a 390 mg dose the most important bit of the extraction is the squeezing, obviously the main tip with squeezing is to make sure you fold the filter in away you are pushing the water out the sides of the filter as opposed to the weakest point of the filter the bottom . That way you wont end up with para jizzing out the bottom

Really i just the standard method but with lukewarm water, when i squeeze the filters i use an extra 2 filters to filter what comes out. Thats it really simple as
 
Thanks mate... I'm not bad (day off today :))

With Evey I actually agree she has a very warm generous side to her (she has sent me some lovely PMs) I just think that due to maybe some mental health issues (please no-one take that as an implies insult....it's not meant to be at all) she has difficulty in controlling her emotions and tends to take everything as a personal insult to her and blow up at the smallest thing, thinking the world is out to get her. I also think that she's a genuine kind hearted person who just wants to fit in and feel liked.

The only time it really annoys me is when I'm scrolling through a forum looking for information or a chance to contribute some myself and there is page after page of childish nonsense and it makes me think (as you alluded to earlier)..."fuck sake this is meant to be an HR discussion not a playground!!!

But yeah, basically I think she's a good person and there should be a space for her somewhere on the forum.

Take care of yerself mate and good luck with the clean time...you're doing really well :)
 
Yes she is very reactionary thus easy to troll thats the problem, so its easy picking for a few members thats what you would expect on a video game forum not this site.
 
Yeah I totally agree with the complaints of page after page of nonsense, that is the fault of the people running the forum though imo. If you're going to converge a light social forum with one focused on HR then that is going to happen.

I agree with your comments on Evey which is why I totally disagree with her being banned. I'd rather be talking to her and trying to help her than talking to some of the self-important sanctimonious old cunts that post here (of which I am guilty myself sometimes no doubt, I can definitely do with being told sometimes =D) that's for sure. Forums like this need people like Evey, if you're just going to fuck off all the difficult people then why bother at all.

Certainly there is some total hypocrisy from some of the staff on the sunbject imo. They'll sit and watch Evey be unintentionally difficult and chastise her and pick on anal shit to throw out bans and then sit back and watch and not do anything when someone wades in and is purposefully unpleasant and tries to wind her up or hurt her and nothing is done (perhps because they are often smart enough to stay within the rules). Not what it's all about imo, a bit of discretion goes a long way and all that and it certainly seems to be lacking sometimes.

Anyway, back to CWEs...=D

Enjoy your day off!
 
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When i messed up on vals the benzo thread did offer me more better info and reassurance then either of my doctors did, HR comes in different forms. Without this site i might of not quit my other recovery option was turning point but this site i found better because people are experts on drugs as opposed to some dumb support worker who has never heard of a CWE. People on this site will know more about the in's and outs of specific drugs then an arrogant GP. Why? because they have taken the substance

In the same way you will never understand addiction until you have one.

But back to CWE's. ;p
 
LOL!

I think regardless of any of the other things, wetting the filter paper first is probably the one thing that people don't do. If the overall quantity of water being used is small then this little thing can have a huge effect of yield.

The other thing Dark Side regarding when you mentioned squeezing, I'd be a bit wary of this myself as forcing the water through like that could possible result in small (maybe invisible to the naked eye) tears in the paper letting more APAP through. Admittedly it might not but just thought it was worth mentioning.

At the end of the day though it comes down to time. If you have the time to let the filtering take place over night, the time to grind the pills to a fine powder, the time to do a double filtering (hot then cold) technique like I mentioned, the time to maybe re-dissolve then re-filter the contents of the filter paper when you are finished (using the filtrate from the initial process as the solvent - re doing the process if you like) then you are likely to end up with a very high yield of codeine (maybe close to 100 percent) and very little APAP.

The problem though is that in real life not many people are that patient or have that much time - like I said earlier time wasn't a factor for me but I appreciate if you are in WDs then you might feel differently. The real question therefore is probably which steps do people think you can miss out (thus saving time) and still be safe and get a high codeine yield?
 
When i messed up on vals the benzo thread did offer me more better info and reassurance then either of my doctors did, HR comes in different forms. Without this site i might of not quit my other recovery option was turning point but this site i found better because people are experts on drugs as opposed to some dumb support worker who has never heard of a CWE. People on this site will know more about the in's and outs of specific drugs then an arrogant GP. Why? because they have taken the substance

In the same way you will never understand addiction until you have one.

But back to CWE's. ;p

When I say this forum I'm talking specifically about this section btw, I post in recovery support a lot and have found it to be a massive help.

What steps do I think you can miss out? To actually get involved in the on top topic discussion....

If I do a cwe these days then I grind the pills in a hario grinder, mix with the ice water (usually only let it extract for a minute or two, it's all you need really iif the pills are ground well), run it through a t-shirt in to my aeropress, use that to filter, and then run it through the aeropress one or two more times if needed. I then add a load of sugar before drinking.

This is by no means the best method to use but it takes all of five minutes to extract a pack of 32 paramol and it yields well. Definitely getting a fair amount of apap in there but it's a safe amount for sure (for me at least).
 
Yeh the fibres split if you do it out the bottom and you're not careful, ive examined it before clear as day splits that would leak crap out. CWE's are a simple process but there is hell of alot of trial and error involved before you get them bang on bare in mind i had 200 phosphate pills few weeks back so i know my cwe's are not wasteful in the slightest. I get the same buzz on 390 mg phosphate as i do on my CWE with. I also dissolved the phosphate in water and took on empty stomach first thing have with a coffee when i wake up or a cwe on a completely empty stomach.

Cwe hit compared to a pill hit is night and day, you get twice as high off a dissolved solution. I know this cos i boshed 500 mg worth of phosphate and it was CRAP



Wet 2 filters and attach to glass
80 ml of luke warm water measured in measuring jug
throw pills in the jug
Stir the pills
wait till its dissolved completely
Pour into filters and wait
Wet 2 new filters
When it just looks like a lump of para in the filters (could be anywhere between 20 mins to 90 mins), take the filters out and put them in the measuring jug leaning against the side vertically like they were in your glass so you catch every last drip. same with when you transfer the filters into the jug, time it so you don't miss a drip. So you can pour what ever drops in to your measuring jug into your new filters
Put the 2 new filters on top of the glass
Take the filters with the lump of para out the measuring jug
now fold it in a away you are squeezing the water out the sides and start squeezing into the new filters, it will probably piss water out and keep squeezing and folding until you end up with a dry lump of para.
Wait for all the stuff you squeezed out to filter, you could then squeeze that filter if you wanted into the final solution but meh.
Then drink

Thats how i do it
 
If you're going to converge a light social forum with one focused on HR then that is going to happen.

Yeah that is how I see it too. Sharing experiences and anecdotal stuff in this form can have merit, depending on who's doing the posting, but the net result here in EADD is so unstructured and of such variable trustworthiness that it ends up somewhere on the far side between harm reduction and harm increase.
 
i ger 64 8/200 boots cod aspirin and a bottle of waterr. by the time im home the tabs have dissolved in their little bottle. for safety i throw an ice cube in ans shake.
i wet 2 filters after putting one inside the other.
put filter round clean glass and pour.i the solution piiiiises through. takes 2-3 miins to stop dripping. i then get a tiny bit of water andlet that leach through (total water used about100ml) i dont bother squeezing as dony wanna risk rip and 2 bkottles is quite a bit.
its all about the brown now tho!
 
Hiyer newcomers! :)
Seems the drought has brought many new members to BL, so I thought that seeing as I was asked about this a few times, I'd put up a thread here (specifically for new EADD members) about Cold Water Extraction - How to go about it etc...

The basic premise of a CWE:

Codeine is very, very water-soluble. So much so that, even with very cold water, it will all be "taken in" by the water.
Paracetamol is rather insoluble in water - More so in Cold Water.
Using this technique, you remove most of the Paracetamol and all the binders from the tablets, and end up with a solution of Codeine and Water.
This way you will save your Liver and be able to help your withdrawals out in times of dire need ;)

You will need:

  • Co-Codamol Tablets (Pharmacy Generic - Supermarket Pharmacies seem to be cheapest)
  • Coffee Filters
  • Measuring jug (preferably glass)
  • Pint Glass
  • Something to turn your tablets into powder (I have a nice, metal Weed grinder I use)
  • Cold Water
  • Time

MonstaNoodle's CWE Technique:

1. Split Co-Codamol tablets into halves and grind them in a Weed grinder (I have a really effective one for this with the half-tablets fitting nicely into the "slots" between the "spikes"). But, as stated, any way you can get yer tabs into powder will do.

2. Fill a glass measuring jug with ~25ml of tap cold water, or water you've kept in the fridge, for every 16 tablets you use.

3. Add the now powdered tablets to the water and swish around a few times till it looks nicely mixed.

4. Get two Coffee filters, dampen them with cold water (not too much or they tend to split) and place one wrapped around a pint glass, place the other sitting inside the first.

5. Pour the solution into the filters and leave it to... well... Filter.

6. When most of the Codeine/Water solution has filtered, carefully twist and wrap the top filter around, gently squeezing any excess water from it.

7. When most of the solution has left the filter, you can now squeeze harder to get every last drop out.
Then you can squeeze the second filter (that's wrapped around the pint glass) to get all the Codeine/Water solution you can out.

8. Drink the clear solution like a shot and chase it with some tasty fruit juice.

Done ;) I find no need to use warm water or for further cooling in the fridge. I've done this many times and my Liver is fine (blood tests have confirmed this).

Notes:

DO NOT INJECT THE SOLUTION! It will cause a massive release of Histamine and a build up of fluid in the lungs.

Don't try this with the effervescent tablets. They contain a form of Paracetamol that's a salt, making it more soluble in water. Tis dangerous. They also contain a lot of Sorbitol which is also not too good for you.

Try not to drink any Alcohol, but if you must do, do so after the Codeine has taken effect to minimise any extra Liver damage (Paracetamol + Ethanol = Bad).

Use as little water as possible and make it as cold as possible. The less Paracetamol you end up with the better.

Thats a good tutorial of how it's done.

Evey
 
I know its a great tutorial and for a novice like me, I will try it this way. My only problem is that I have bought Nurofen+ with Ibroprufen....but my 2 questions are;

1. Will it get rid of the Ibro ok?

2. I am looking for a recreational high, how many would be a good starting point? (Either crushed tablets or in mg?)
Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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