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Heroin New to IV heroin...cpl questions

N

NOLA

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
60
Location
New Orleans, Louisiana
So Ive taken the next step and started IV heroin use. Long time opiate user to include heroin and have IVd other opiates before but never "cooked" them as its never been necessary (or recommended) with the pharms Ive used via the needle. After great research on bioavailability using various ROA Ive found most of whats out there in the mega threads to be pretty consistent with my own experiences. For example Opanas nasal bioavail is around 45%, IM 85% and IV 100%. When I compare 20mg nasal to 10mg IV I usually get about the same feeling (once the effects from immediate intro from IV are over anyway). IM opana seems a lil weaker than IV but certainly stronger than nasal. Same with roxi's in that I get more, if only slightly, from oral use than nasal. Not trying to reopen that particular oral vs nasal oxy argument but just listing another example of how the generally accepted bioavailabilities as per the mega thread have in most all cases lined up pretty well with my personal experience.

Not so with Heroin. I picked up a gram of columbian white powder friday and tested it with a little bump then had a more experienced friend help me guage a proper dose IV wise based on my tolerance and the strength of the actual bag of dope to be consumed. Im not getting anywhere near the kick Id expected from the shots nor are they particularly lining up with the other ROAs like opana, roxi etc. Im wondering if its my cooking method.

I didnt have a spoon so I used a metal measuring type cup thats too thick to cook using a regular lighter without waiting a half hour so I used a "torch" type lighter that sends it into a simmer in about 4-5 seconds then unless I pull the flame off quickly starts to nearly boil in the next half second. On average I put 7 units of water in pre cook and after cooking and filtering end up with around 5 units. Am I "cooking off" or otherwise ruining my shot by using too much heat?
 
Thanks Geaux. Another quick question. Does IV admin lead to extremely rapid tolerance development...like say nodding out for hours at a time friday night to barely getting warm and fuzzy tonight using same dose? Its some pretty good shit and Ive only run through half a gram using continually Fri through Sun night (have spotty and vague images from super bowl, he he) then two shots today. I measured out using a .001 gram scale before ever taking first shot so Im confident the only variances in buzz should have come from either rapid tolerance Ive never experienced anywhere close to this degree or from improper cooking tech.

Im new here so hope Im not breaking any rules by asking....but I think its obvious we both know where the other is located by our handles. Do you find it easy to find dope in your town? Ive only scored some shitty brown there once and that was after 5 years of asking many many opiate connects there. The general consensus was none to be found. Of course then I found some. Just curious if I was in the wrong circle or if it really is that scarce.
 
Just heat it a little until you see it start dissolving then let off and stir the dope with the water until it fully dissolves, if it needs a little more heat add a little, but try not to let it boil.

Heroin used I.V. builds up super fast. Of course it depends on how much you use, the more often higher amounts the quicker it builds. I would get a gram and by the end of the gram I was doing to 2 to 3x as much as when I first got it. It almost seems like there were 2 very different kinds of dope in there, but it wasn't possible because it was one chunk.

The last shot out of my bag always pissed me off, because no matter how big I never felt like it went out with a bang like I wanted.
 
You don't need to cook heroin either, as it's not getting rid of the cut, it's just melting to non soluble cuts into the solution. Oxymorphone is a lot stronger mg per mg than heroin is, so if you've been doing a lot of opana, you're going to need to use more heroin, which is more closely related to the potency of oxycodone. I would get a scale if I were you, and measure out the the same amount of oxy it takes you to get high, and sniff that amount of heroin. That will give you am idea of the purity of your product, and then you can more safely asses how much to shoot.
 
Thanks dkmonk. I had a suspicion that the tolerance was increasing disproportionately to what I was accustomed to but had no frame of reference to gauge by. When you say you shot 2-3x more toward the end of a gram what sort of timeline were you on? Was that over a weekend, week, single day? The first five shots or so all seemed relatively equal in euphoria, warmth, buzz etc. but the first few had me nodding for several hours at a time where the 4th and 5th had me sort of in and out but never to the extent I couldnt function semi normally. Id just drop my water bottle or not notice i was burning a hole in my shirt with my cigarette....nothing to complain about but nothing like where I was on the first cpl shots. By today Im not nodding at all...in fact Im typing on a forum. I didnt expect tolerance to jump that quick on a single gram but it was either that or the "burning off" issue. Seems like I misjudged the rapid tolerance.

Anybody notice it so much more so with H vs others? I make 20mg/ml x 10cc vials of oxymorphone out of Opanas and while there is a tolerance build up its nothing close to what Ive experienced this weekend. When Im off for a while and come back with little to no tolerance I shoot 2.5 units (about 5mg) of oxym at the beginning but still havent progressed past needing more than 15 mg a shot toward the end of the bottle. And that bottle usually lasts me a week before getting to that point. Now if I go crazy and keep on with the oxym I get a hellacious tolerance but thats why I try and space them out by a week or two in between. Heroin IV tolerance trumps anything Ive come across up to this point.
 
Znegative, can you please elaborate on not needing to cook heroin? I was under the impression that while the drug in its pure form is completely water soluable that in order to get it all in the water you had to cook it to release the cut (of course causing you to shoot the cut thats in the water now as well). Can you simply let the H sit in water for a bit, filter and shoot while leaving any solids behind as garbage?

Thats how I make the oxymorphone solution I described as oxym is super soluble in water. Just drop 5 Opana 40s in a 50cc vial with some bacteriostatic water (15cc to be exact), cap and wait 24-36 hours. Then take a 3cc syringe and draw up the water while not disturbing the goo like remainder of the pills, run through a micron wheel filter and bottle in a 10cc vial, purge filter, cap and your good to go. About 5% of the drug gets lost in the 5cc of water that innundate the pill carcasses but thats still perfectly acceptable to me vs having to do single alcohol extractions where Im sure that if not more gets lost. The extreme water soluability of the oxym coupled with the amount of time allowed to soak means maximum drug extraction with zero impurities (after filter of course). Are you implying the same can/should be done with heroin? Not necessarily the same tech per se but letting the powder soak in water an appropriate amount of time with no heat applied. Will that yeild a substantial percentage of the drug without releasing the cut into the solution?

As the thread is titled...new to IV heroin. Any advice appreciated. As to the Opana/Heroin mg per mg issue Im unsure how to compare as I make up the vials as a way to ensure I know exactly what dose Im getting each time using the consistent mg/ml it provides. The problem is that 40mg of opana doesnt weigh 40mg. Would the following work per your suggestion?

Weigh a 40mg opana to get how much it weighs in total and use the ratio of 40mg oxym to whatever the weight of the pill was to determine how many mg of OPANA = 10 mg oxymorphone. This would be "x" mg OPANA powder = 10mg oxym. Then weigh out the same "x" mg of heroin and do heroin nasally to compare to what effect it has vs opana. Then, guestimating of course, say I found 10mg of oxym weighing "x" mg got me twice as buzzed as the same volume "x" of heroin I would assign "x" mg of heroin a value equivalent to 5mg of oxym. Then use my existing knowledge of how many mg oxym I need to get off to determine how many mg heroin is equivalent.

Is that close to what you were suggesting?

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate the help.
 
If it's powder heroin you shouldn't have to cook it at all really. I live in New England, and have never encountered any kind of heroin that requires heat before you can inject it. However, there is plenty of rumor and conjecture surrounding whether or not it increases overall potency or rush through cooking. Your issue is probably pretty simple. The shots you're doing aren't strong enough. People and the media often put heroin on this pedestal of being the most gnarly, hardcore powerful drug that will knock you on your ass regardless of dose. At the end of the day though, it's just another opiate, that requires the same relative dose adjustments to feel the same effects.

In short, you should just carefully increase the dosages of your shots. And as always, the purity of street heroin is know to vary exponentially, so recreational use is gonna require you to pay way closer attention to the amount you're using when compared to pharmaceutical opiates where you know for certain what you're getting. Be careful...
 
Thanks Keif. Its white with a very slight brown tinge to it that only really becomes obvious once its in the water. Came as a gram with about half of it being powder and the other half being comprised of approximately 5 rocks. Once all chopped out it became apparent that the rocks and powder were indeed the same consistency/substance with the tight packaging and high humidity in my area the likely culprit in the rock formation. No experience with NE heroin so this may sound stupid, but is what Im describing something you'd call powder or am I uneducated on the topic? We get all four types down here but BTH is rare. Persian brown is the most common Ive come across and Im aware there are other requirements for getting it properly dissolved from Columbian or SE Asian H. Of course, until I grew my own weed and spent a decade getting familiar with it I could routinely be sold "AK-47" that was in all likely hood Hindu Kush. I havent invested 10 years into dope yet and could be getting played as to it being Columbian white but I got it from a long time trusted source who happens to be freinds with one of the larger players down here. He didnt have to call it anything but chose to so I made the assumption he was knowledgeable about its origin due to who he obtained it from.

A huge part of my dose problem is indeed the various media making it seem like its something its not. As far as a "rush" goes Ive been led to believe by TV and movies that your spine tingles, ears ring and then youre consumed by an all loving blanket of warmth and acceptance. Ive been told by several users not to expect anything like that in terms of the rush but that the blanket of acceptance was true....all of which I experienced myself. No real rush save feeling it come up my spine 10 seconds or so after pushing off then normal opiate bliss ala what Im accustomed to with oxymorphone IV. I dont doubt my doses were too small in hindsight and will address that tomorrow. Still have about 4/10ths left of the gram and since Im already aware of its potency vs a new bag I think this would be the best time to titrate up rather than starting with a big shot of something new.

Given its already weighed out precisely and tonights two shots didnt lead to any nod at all...not even much warmth, do you think doubling up tomorrow night is too aggressive? Then titrate from there?

Will always verify purity through trusted source followed by nasal admin prior to IV dope. Thanks for the reminder though. The reason I love the oxymorphone so much is that I know exactly what 5 units will deliver. If only these damned drug laws (or my better understanding of heroin purification) would allow for pharm grade vials I wouldnt have to risk an OD to get high. Guess I better get working on my purification tech if its that important to me as I dont see us following Swiss and Dutch harm reduction techniques anytime in my lifetime here.
 
I would get a gram at the begining of my addictiona and it would last 3 days, and by the third day I would be be doing at leas twice as big of shots. Towards the end I would be getting a gram and a half and that would last a day and a half maybe a day if I got it really early, and by the end of the day or begining of the next I was easily doing .3 shots. Your first half of the dope you get is always the best the second goes faster, and you get less of the high feeling you want even thought you are super high you don't view it that way in your mind and think you need more, but since you aren't nodding off as severely then you assume you are fine, until you hear stories of the stupid shit you would say and do.

Also, I found later on in the bag you get way more irritable, and like a speedy feeling almost. Can't sit still and always fidgeting. It is almost not enjoyable do to being so pissed. I would catch myself saying random things to people and didn't know why I said them. I told my guy friend I loved him randomly, becauuse I thought he was my girlfriend. I would cry at the littlest things like me assuming people hated me just because my friend said, "You don't need another shot you are fucked up." In my mind they didn't like me anymore and I didn't understand why they weren't my friends, but in reality they were helping me.

I would go to bed high as a kite and in the middle of the night get up and act out my dreams and pace the floor mumbling for 3040 minutes before realizing where I was at and what I was doing, and that I was actually awake. I would wake up and puke usually and then do a shot, but I never knew if it was from w/d's or too much dope, but I hardly would puke directly after shooting up just maybe like 4-6 hours later, so I assumed that was w/d's and shot more.

edit: It is true you can do cold shots by letting the dope disolve, but I got big chunks and would break off a chunk and put it in the spoon and letting it dissolve in regular water involved crushing it up and stiring it for a minute or too, and that was too long, so I would add the heat to help dissolve faster.

I did tar 3-4 times, and that stuff you pretty much have to add heat. I hated when I would get tar, because my fire dope guys wouldn't answer (I had like 3-4 main dealers, whoever said they could meet the fastest lol)
 
Yeah Ive had the same issues with the oxymorphone injections. Ive learned to pace myself and make only one bottle 20mg/mlx10cc at a time and try to keep a week between bottles. At my worst (or best...sometimes hard to tell the difference if you know what i mean) I was making 40mg/mlx30cc vials and running them back to back until I ran out. The first bottle was bliss, the ones after led to some of the same shit you describe re being super high but not realizing it so going back and shooting more trying to get to a place that was long ago unattainable. My freinds would say they would come over and I would talk gibberish and they'd leave and Id have no recollection of them having been there at all. It all starts to run together. Even when I did remember visits they'd say I started off sentences slurred but normal then half way through start babbling unintelligibly to the point it wasnt even words but sounds and grunts accompanied by hand gestures to imply I DID have something I was attempting to convey though formation of actual words was not possible let alone sentences that lent themselves to coherent thought conveyance. Ditto the getting sick after the fact. No matter what opiate used via IV Ive never thrown up within the first three or four hours. If anything Id nod blissfully for hours then suddenly snap out of wonder land and have a raging urge to puke. I dont know about you but my eating habits suffer dramatically when Im on heavy opiates. Seeing that black shit in the toilet after puking that i can only rationalize must have been a coke I drank but didnt remember was enough to make me want to puke again. of course I shot up again instead. Im glad to hear you can get confused between whether your sick from wd or too much dope and shoot again without an od (you specifically, not general public) as it makes me a little less apprehensive about my original dilemma that seems to be due to tolerance reducing my buzz. I speculated it would take 4-5x what I was shooting to even breach on an OD but unlike oxym which Ive learned my limits or lack therof Im still nervous about the dope. Economically there isnt any other way I can do it now and since I popped my needle cherry long ago the only thing holding me back was apprehension about the unknown. After failing to get any real feeling at all from tonights (now 3) shots I have no doubt Im going to double up tomorrow night off the top but dont expect much more than a lil nod if that given all Ive read tonight regarding tolerance build up. I need to read up on purifying street H and devise a method comparable to my oxymorphone set up allowing me to have accurate dosages so when titration occurs I can do it with precision. Something tells me I wont always be able to be patient enough to spend an hour with a scale splitting doses prior to beginning a bag meaning at some point Im gonna end up just dumping powder in the cooker and using my junkie logic and shitty pinned eyesight to determine whats appropriate. Harm reduction for me has gotten past avoidance of hard drugs....need to accept my lot in life and figure ways to make it safer to do what im going to do regardless.

Af for tar, Id always heard its better off smoked compared to powder. any truth to that? Or is that just since smoking powder is such a waste compared to smoking tar? I got a guy in H town where its a lot more prevelant saying he can get ball of tar for less than what a g of white cost me here. Being where I am and there being so little of it around it has a shitty reputation...but that may be due to other factors rather than actual facts. Hard to judge something you dont use regularly i suppose.
 
Tire has a totally different high, so I can't say it is better to smoke, because high quality powder smokes just fine, it is the cut that wont let it smoke as easily.

Tar can be pretty damn awesome, but it feel so different, and more cloudy I would say. I was getting decent powder the best for my area, and I would try tar occasionally when recommended and get just as high, but didn't like the dirtyness of it knowing is is worse for you.

I enjoyed seeing clear gold in my syringe and not black. Plus it is a pain, because it is sticky and takes longer to liquidfy in the spoon. I liked my shots now, and any second waiting was a second too long.

I could wait for the dope man in a parking lot all day long until I got ahold of one of them. I would literally go to their houses sometime knowing they didn't allow it, because they answered and said to call back in an hour and they weren't answering now, and I knew where they lived. I went to one guys house at 3 am, because that is when I found some money and knocked on his door and window. I think if we didn't bring them an obscene amount of money they would of shot us.

I got so mad at one dude one time for telling me he would serve me and then not answer and I drove to his apartment waited for his car to pull up, but it was his girl and I got out all pissed (she knew who I was from being in his car while he served sometimeS) and yelled at her that I had been waiting for over 2 hours for my shit and he needs to let me know something. I was so mad and sick I just didn't give a fuck, and was going to smash car windows if I didn't get an answer. I thought their customer appreciation wasn't up to par, and it would piss me off, because I wasn't leaving the city without dope, and I felt I spent so much money and my friends did too, that they wouldn't be in business without me.

I look back on this and realize that I was crazy, and don't understand why I was so unfearful of dope dealers that where from the hood. I never would of harassed any other dealer like that.
 
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Don't listen to what anyone says about the origin of the heroin you buy on the street. At best, that information is gonna be 10% useful and 90% erroneous, conjecture bullshit. As of a few years ago, over 90% of opium was grown in that little country that time forgot known as Afghanistan. From there it is carted across its borders in all directions, but mostly to Iran (the nation with the highest per capita instance of opiate addiction in the world), where their more sophisticated infrastructure and organized crime, prepare it for export across the world. Anyways...

As for your dosage question. There's no way to accurately judge this type of question, as most people on here will tell you. The best advice I can give you is this: increase your dose taking calculated risks in your attempt to reach the state you're after. Having someone with you while you're figuring this stuff out is something I would highly recommend.

I think the dope that you're getting is more or less the same kind that I get way up here.
 
Thanks all. I ended up doubling up the next night, did two shots two hours apart and felt more akin to the first day but never any nod. Took the last three points and combined them then split into two 15mg piles and shot them the next night getting a hell of a lot closer to nodding out but still not where I was originally. Guess I gotta learn to accept that the second half gram = 15% of the total instead of 50%.

Somebody above mentioned the larger doeses on the second half made them jittery, nervous and speedy. Sorry didnt scroll and re read to give credit to that person but that was my expeience as well. Of the last two shots the first made me nauseaous to the point I almost didnt want to do the second...of course I did two hours later but thankfully the nausea went away on shot 2. Was still jittery and spent all night unable to sleep. Work sucked next day.

Thanks for all the responses. Will know whats up with the g Im picking up today and plan accordingly.
 
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