Opioids New Reformulated Vicodin 10/300s?

[hatrix]

cool story bro LMFAO

Come on lac, you know that was pointless.

To Sweetjane, a cold water extraction is not very hard. There are very very simply TEKs right here on BL that work great. I've only ever done a single CWE, but it went perfectly fine. Mixture wasn't cloudy at all really, not until I went to take the coffee filter off the cup and a drip got through that had APAP in it and made it slightly cloudy.

Plugged what I did the CWE on, worked great. Make sure you use enough water so as not to be left with a thick sludge like substance, as it will never filter through. Also, after you crush up your Vicodin and add water to it, store it in the freezer or fridge for a good 20-30 minutes or so before you dump it into a container with a coffee filter or two over top. APAP doesn't dissolve as readily at low temperatures, while the hydrocodone still dissolves fine.

 

[Sweet Jane]

They actually make an even WAY better Hydrocodone pain pill called Vicoprofen, comes in 10/200 and 7.5/300, that's Hydrocodone and ibuprofen. wish they would make those without hydrocodone but instead Oxycodone/ibuprofen 10/200 and 7.5/300

I had actually read about those here, as well as the vicodin/aspirin mix, and asked my pharmacist about it. He said the only vicoprofen or vicodin/aspirins he is aware of are the 7.5s. He's never heard of 10s with either ibuprofen or aspirin. Are you in the States? I didn't realize how dramatic the difference in available prescription drugs between the US and Canada were until I started reading this site. Maybe the 10/200 are not available in the US? At any rate, I'm pretty sure my doctor will give me Roxicodone which seems to be the recommended drug of choice if you suffer from serious pain AND liver problems.

Thanks for suggestion, though. It's responses like your's that make this site such an excellent resource.

 

[Sweet Jane]

Come on lac, you know that was pointless.

To Sweetjane, a cold water extraction is not very hard. There are very very simply TEKs right here on BL that work great. I've only ever done a single CWE, but it went perfectly fine. Mixture wasn't cloudy at all really, not until I went to take the coffee filter off the cup and a drip got through that had APAP in it and made it slightly cloudy.

Plugged what I did the CWE on, worked great. Make sure you use enough water so as not to be left with a thick sludge like substance, as it will never filter through. Also, after you crush up your Vicodin and add water to it, store it in the freezer or fridge for a good 20-30 minutes or so before you dump it into a container with a coffee filter or two over top. APAP doesn't dissolve as readily at low temperatures, while the hydrocodone still dissolves fine.

LOL. The word pointless came to my mind also upon reading the OP. Also a bit of gender confusion, given my user name Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I did learn the CWE on this site a month or so ago, and it worked for me perfectly the first time. Then I reduced the amount of water I was using too drastically on subsequent efforts, and ended up with exactly what you called it -- "sludge." I'll try the freezer approach, as well, although the first time I did the CWE with 50mll of water, it came out perfectly clear after the first filter, although I went ahead and did the second filter too, per the instructions on the megathread.

The problem for me is more that the extracted hydro has a tendency to leave me depressed and a little paranoid when I "come down" off it. It's not so bad if I'm only using it to supplement the pills, but I can still sense it, even then. I read that plugging it was really the best way to go, but I don't think I'm quite ready to go there -- literally -- at the moment. Again, thanks.

 

[tricomb]

Why risk taking another compounded opioid? They make Oxycodone IR (Roxicodone, etc) and other mono-agent drugs such as hydromorphone (Dilaudid) specifically for people with liver problems. Why take the chance? I think Vicoprofen or hydrocodone/aspirin are both bad ideas for someone in your situation.

Ask the doctors though, but please don't put this off.

 

[Sweet Jane]

Hey, all is forgiven, I am so sorry that you have a liver disease!!!

I'm sorry again, but I'm going to be bold here and say something that I have no right to say but my morals won't let me not say it.

If you have liver problems, you should not be taking compounded opiates. I am extremely concerned for your health and well-being and all politeness aside... You can't wait that long. I don't know how long it is until your next doctors appointment but you have liver disease!!!! What kind of doctor puts someone with liver disease on 4g APAP a day?!?! They're either clueless or careless...

PLEASE DO NOT WAIT TO SWITCH TO ROXICODONE. Every day makes a difference and 4g a day is the maximum daily dose for adults with healthy livers. You have a compromised liver, make some phone calls TOMORROW...

I am not a doctor but I think that this should be treated extremely seriously, like I would not put this off at all if I were in your shoes....

Well, in fairness to my doctor, she thinks I am only taking about 2.4 grams of APAP per day. She's prescribing me eight 10/300s per day, but I'm taking 12-13. However, I hear you, and I appreciate your concern. I have an appointment with my doctor's PA on Thursday, and I will request the Roxicodone then. As I said, so far my doctor has given me everything I've asked and offered even more, so I don't foresee a problem. I do have some dilaudid here -- hydromorphine? -- that a friend gave me, but oddly the dilaudid doesn't really work for me. I was afraid to use it, until I researched the hell out of it here on Blue Light. I followed the instructions to crush up two 4s into a fine powder, then snorted it, but it just made me feel like a heavy blanket was weighing me down. That's the only way to describe it. Maybe I underestimated my tolerance? I didn't realize until just recently how much hydrocodone I was actually taking on a daily basis. I also have some liquid morphine a friend gave me, but it has the same effect as the dilaudid. I mean, it gets rid of the pain, but I don't like how strangely weighed down, almost suffocated, I feel on these drugs. Although, you've got me concerned enough that I'm thinking maybe I should try them again while waiting to see the PA?

Anyway, I will hopefully have roxi by the end of the week. I'll post here and let you know what my doctor says. Thanks, again for the concern and advice.

ETA: the dilaudid did nothing at all for the pain, taken orally. I thought maybe it was expired, but apparently it was only prescribed about eight months ago. I'm thinking I just seriously under-estimated my tolerance. You have no idea how floored I was to learn how much vicodin I was actually taking on a daily basis.

 

[hatrix]

I would have to say both Hydromorphine and Morphine both cause more respiratory depression the hydrocodone. Hydrocodone doesn't really cause much at all in comparison to the stronger opiates. That's most likely the feeling you're experiencing and you're just not used to it. Of course, to much depression could be a sign of to high of a dosage.

 

[Sweet Jane]

I would have to say both Hydromorphine and Morphine both cause more respiratory depression the hydrocodone. Hydrocodone doesn't really cause much at all in comparison to the stronger opiates. That's most likely the feeling you're experiencing and you're just not used to it. Of course, to much depression could be a sign of to high of a dosage.

That could be a problem, as I do have respiratory issues -- asthma and chronic allergic bronchitis. Probably why my pharmacist suggested Roxi instead of one of the morphines. Also, I do have a script for valium, and take a 10 occasionally. Never more than one per day, and I don't drink at all, ever, but the benzo, combined with the respiratory issues, probably means that I should just throw the dilaudid and morphine out, I'm thinking.

 

[Morphling]

No no no, don't throw out good opiates, that would make me cry. Save em for a rainy day, IMO.

 

[opiodmaniac]

wow... most people would fight for liquid morphine. (im guessing your referring to ampules) an you just want to throw it away. hahaha.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

wow... most people would fight for liquid morphine. (im guessing your referring to ampules) an you just want to throw it away. hahaha.

Yeah I give anybody a shit load of credit that's able to just throw drugs away like that.

 

[Sweet Jane]

wow... most people would fight for liquid morphine. (im guessing your referring to ampules) an you just want to throw it away. hahaha.

No, it's actually liquid in, measured out by a dropper-type syringe. Last year was a very bad year for a lot of people. A couple friends of friends died of cancer (so awful) and I was given the leftover meds because I was struggling so hard trying to manage my own pain issues (morbid, I know, but that's why I have a pharmacy's worth of drugs right at the moment). But it is way too strong for me, I think, especially with respiratory disease. One of my doctors suggested morphine for pain relief in the past, but I'm assuming she meant a fentanyl patch. I'm not really interested in that. I had a bad experience with fentanyl as administered by another doctor for a procedure.

 

[Sweet Jane]

Why risk taking another compounded opioid? They make Oxycodone IR (Roxicodone, etc) and other mono-agent drugs such as hydromorphone (Dilaudid) specifically for people with liver problems. Why take the chance? I think Vicoprofen or hydrocodone/aspirin are both bad ideas for someone in your situation.

Ask the doctors though, but please don't put this off.

Okay, I promised you that I would talk to my Physician's Assistant about the roxi today and I did. You have no idea how badly I really did NOT want to tell him how much Vicodin I'm taking, but I did. He had already kind of figured out that the pain was moving beyond the control of vicodin, though, by my elevated blood pressure. MY BP tends to go through the roof when the pain gets really bad, which is pretty much a dead giveaway. Anyway, he made kind of a face when I told him I was taking a dozen Norco a day. Embarrassing! But he did say it's definitely a problem if I'm needing that much to control the pain, and that we do need to explore other medications. My doctor is not in this week, so he said he'd talk to her next week and hopefully get back to me on Monday. He did say that the NASH is non-cirrhotic (which I knew), and that another few weeks of taking 4 grams of APAP per day was not going to cause major problems, but he also acknowledged that it is not a viable solution for the long term. So, we shall see. Thank you. It was better that I tell the truth about the extent of my usage, I know, but it didn't feel so great.

I'll let you know what they decide.

 

[Sweet Jane]

So, my doctor didn't see anything wrong with the number of Norco I was taking. Then my back started spasming and I've been doing the muscle-relaxer-narcotics for a week. Now I'm getting Percocet for pain, but it's not working. I was taking 3-4 norcos, 3-4 times a day to control the pain before my back went rogue. Now that my back is spasming, my doctor switched me (at my request) to Percocet. I hate it. They're only five mg, so I need to take two to get any pain relief at all, which means I'm going to run out halfway through the month unless my doctor increases my dosage. I don't have an almost unlimited supply of these, as I do the Norco. I get almost ZERO euphoria, followed by depression, and nearly no pain relief from the Percocet. If I take two, I get about a fifteen minute burst of euphoria, followed by heavy depression. And the pain is back within 2 hours.

Before my back spasmed, I was controlling the pain by taking about twelve 300/10s a day. I liked that I could control the dosage to drive when I needed to, and to focus on trivial things that made me strangely happy, when I didn't. That's what I was hoping for with Percocet. But this depression is awful! And it is so hard controlling the pain. I'm also surprised when I read other people's comments that oxycodone makes them more energetic than hydrocodone. I am finding exactly the opposite to be true. Whereas, I could easily make plans and lists of things I had to do, and then do them, while I was taking hydros, I don't have the energy to do anything on oxy. So, do I need to try to a higher dose? I figure I'm taking the equivalent of four Norco with the oxy, and I've never taken more than four Norco at one time. I've tried doing one perc and two Norco, and that did get rid of the pain, but left me very depressed as well. So, do I just need to move to something else or keep experimenting with dosages and mixes of hydro/oxy?

Here is what my doctor has offered me that I have declined:
methadone (ongoing)
morphine (ongoing)
fentanyl (ongoing)
Shots of diluadid (when back is spasming)

Should I be trying one of these? I just want my pain gone, and not to be depressed all the time. Oh yeah, I'm on the lidocaine patches, which seem to be controlling the spasms (fingers crossed), but that hasn't resulted in any ongoing pain relief.

ETA: Actually my maths are wrong. I am only doing the equivalent of 2000 grams of hydrocodone with the 1000 grams of oxycodone. So, it's probably okay to try three or even four oxys to see if that works more effectively? I can tell by my symptoms that I am taking way less opiates than I was before.

 

[Morphling]

Four of the norco 10 would be roughly close to a dosage of the available Roxi 30mg pills. They gave you 5mg percocets? What the fuck? I'm not sure why it would cause you depression....

Methadone might really be overkill. Morphine would be appropriate in the right dosage. It is orally equivalent to hydro, so the 60mg extended release Morphine might do the trick. Fent...maybe. Shots of dilaudid....well, I strongly feel that it would work for you, as the hydro was working. But your tolerance would skyrocket. If you only use it when your back is spasming, you could give one month a try.

Why no muscle relaxers?? I am very confused about that, there are lots of good medications for that particular problem. I strongly suggest Dantrolene sodium, followed by carisopridol; the first is highly effective without providing intoxication, the second is highly effective while also synergizing with the pain medication, it would make it work better. Carisopridol is seen as a drug of abuse these days, however, so it is harder to get. Also, for the depression, they could give you 20mg amitriptyline, or Cymbalta, or Pristique, they help with both the pain and the depression.

You're very lucky that the doctor saw nothing wrong with the number of Norco you were taking, most would boot you out the door, but they don't seem to know what they are doing otherwise. This isn't a pain specialist you are seeing, is it?

Best of luck, SweetJane! I truly hope you can get your pain under reasonable control

 

[Sweet Jane]

Four of the norco 10 would be roughly close to a dosage of the available Roxi 30mg pills. They gave you 5mg percocets? What the fuck? I'm not sure why it would cause you depression....

Methadone might really be overkill. Morphine would be appropriate in the right dosage. It is orally equivalent to hydro, so the 60mg extended release Morphine might do the trick. Fent...maybe. Shots of dilaudid....well, I strongly feel that it would work for you, as the hydro was working. But your tolerance would skyrocket. If you only use it when your back is spasming, you could give one month a try.

Why no muscle relaxers?? I am very confused about that, there are lots of good medications for that particular problem. I strongly suggest Dantrolene sodium, followed by carisopridol; the first is highly effective without providing intoxication, the second is highly effective while also synergizing with the pain medication, it would make it work better. Carisopridol is seen as a drug of abuse these days, however, so it is harder to get. Also, for the depression, they could give you 20mg amitriptyline, or Cymbalta, or Pristique, they help with both the pain and the depression.

You're very lucky that the doctor saw nothing wrong with the number of Norco you were taking, most would boot you out the door, but they don't seem to know what they are doing otherwise. This isn't a pain specialist you are seeing, is it?

Best of luck, SweetJane! I truly hope you can get your pain under reasonable control

You're right that it is not a PM doctor -- that was the one who wanted to put me on morphine. This is my regular doctor, and to be clear, she was not prescribing me twelve Norco a day; she is prescribing me eight a day. As I said, I have family and friends who get tons of Norco for breakthrough pain who don't use them and give them to me. I've always been very honest with my doctor and told her this. It wasn't until I started reading here and actually began tracking my usage that I realized I was up to twelve Norco a day. I immediately told my doctor (embarrassing!), and she indicated that she would not prescribe me anymore than eight, but she didn't tell me to stop taking them from others either. Now that my back is so whacked, it is irrelevant anyway.

The muscle relaxers either put me to sleep for 20 hours or are completely ineffective. And I just realized writing this whole story out that the likely reason I am so depressed is because I'm going through effing withdrawal symptoms. I've got all the symptoms, as well, I know I don't have to list them out for you . Today I took 3000 grams of oxy and 2000 grams of hydro. That is compared to the usual 9,000 grams of hydro that I've usually taken by this time of night. So, clearly, I need a higher dosage of Percocet, I think. Although 30 mgs = 6 percocets!?! I'm a little scared to take that many at once. I was thinking of trying four (2000 grams of oxy). But, you're right that 3000 grams of oxy are equivalent to 4,000 grams of hydro. Jesus. What was my doctor thinking? That is 2000 grams of APAP per dose!

ETA: Many thanks by the way. I have another appointment with my doctor next Wednesday and I am also going to leave a message asking for a callback tomorrow. I cannot believe that they did not do the math on this. The oddest thing is that they have no problem giving me much stronger pain meds, so why so mean with oxy? Are there stricter laws regarding that? I know they couldn't call the prescription in -- I actually had to hand deliver it to the pharmacy, just like old times.

 

[Morphling]

My first thought is--you shouldn't be on the norco or percocet at all, with your liver issues. No use of you being in no pain if it's in a grave

Not all muscle relaxers will put you to sleep. There are many available. The soma's would rock you to sleep, so let's scratch those off the list. So, 30mgs of oxy(along with 3g APAP), and...I don't know how many norcos, 2x 10mg? That would be an additional 600mg APAP, which is far too close to the daily limit for comfort with your liver issues. I agree that is nearly irrelevant with all the issues...but not for long, you shouldn't be having to do it, not when there is a plethora of medications that are both extremely effective and contain no APAP! Argh. I am stressed for you on that issue.

I totally agree that you are in withdrawal, there is also commonly an acclimation period when transitioning between medications, but I don't even think it would work at your current dose. That is not enough oxy to touch your common dosages of hydro.

Call your doctor and complain immediately, get in to see her as soon as you can, with this new knowledge. She may have been trying to work with incomplete cross-tolerance, but it's clearly not working.

Do you have any more questions? We're all very happy to help!

Cheers SweetJane,

Morphling

 

[Sweet Jane]

My first thought is--you shouldn't be on the norco or percocet at all, with your liver issues. No use of you being in no pain if it's in a grave

Not all muscle relaxers will put you to sleep. There are many available. The soma's would rock you to sleep, so let's scratch those off the list. So, 30mgs of oxy(along with 3g APAP), and...I don't know how many norcos, 2x 10mg? That would be an additional 600mg APAP, which is far too close to the daily limit for comfort with your liver issues. I agree that is nearly irrelevant with all the issues...but not for long, you shouldn't be having to do it, not when there is a plethora of medications that are both extremely effective and contain no APAP! Argh. I am stressed for you on that issue.

I totally agree that you are in withdrawal, there is also commonly an acclimation period when transitioning between medications, but I don't even think it would work at your current dose. That is not enough oxy to touch your common dosages of hydro.

Call your doctor and complain immediately, get in to see her as soon as you can, with this new knowledge. She may have been trying to work with incomplete cross-tolerance, but it's clearly not working.

Do you have any more questions? We're all very happy to help!

Cheers SweetJane,

Morphling

No more questions at the moment; you've been wonderful, thank you. I took 6 oxys 20 minutes ago and I am already feeling the pain lifting. It is indescribable how good it feels after two full days of suffering through pain, and also through W/D that was becoming pretty extreme at the end there. I'm still a little upset -- I don't know why my doctor would do this to me -- and will definitely be calling tomorrow. I'd have been better off sticking to the Norco.

ETA/30 minutes later: I feel so good right now. I haven't felt this good in weeks. Thank you, thank you, thank you ...

 

[Morphling]

NP! Glad you feel better, for the moment.

Keep us updated!!

 

[Sweet Jane]

I hope you're still online -- I have one more quick question: should I tell my doctor how badly the W/D was starting to affect me? My policy has always been to be completely honest with my MD, but I don't want to freak her out either.

 

[Morphling]

I certainly wouldn't throw a fit, but yes tell her, as the withdrawal syndrome that you are experiencing is a direct result of the the therapy she has prescribed--poorly