New mod appointment Sweepstake.

[Shambles]

He's not omniscient he's non-existant. But glossing over that for a minute, he's not omniscient either. Not if we have free will anyway.

He should have passed some of that onto his wee pals then. World is flat etc.

Divine Inspiration does look remarkably similar to late Bronze/early Iron Age ignorance sometimes. Almost suspiciously similar in fact. Hmm... I wonder...

 

[Infinite Jest]

he's not omniscient either. Not if we have free will anyway.

Not sure I'd agree with that....surely his knowledge of what your future action will be isn't causal - he just knows what your choice will be, before you make it. Like, I know the sun will come up tomorrow, but I'm not causing it to come up. God's just more knowledgeable than me. Or he would be, if he were real.

As for peace, Sam, I give you Isaiah: "And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Wonderful counselor as well. That's practically the job description for the ideal mod. Vote* Christos in 2013, you know it makes sense.

 

[Shambles]

Garden of Eden IJ? Why create creatures who you know in advance will "Fall" then punish them for it? Assuming lack of malice anyway. In fact what is the point of doing anything when it's all pre-determined which it kinda has to be if omniscience is on the table. Although it is true that omniscience is probably the least self-refuting of the "omni" t'ings. Don't think most Xtians even go for the omni's anymore anyway. They were mostly argued out of credibility centuries ago. I do believe summat called "Omnimax" is the new version. Same as before only with caveats that they're not actually omni (cos that's clearly ridiculous) but just omni enough to not be ridiculous but still be kewl as. Only took several hundred years for such bleedin' obvious concessions so won't be holding me breath for apologetics to just give up the ghost, but every lil prod along the way helps :D

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron" - Judges 1:19

Who said that new-fangled iron malarky confused the shit outta Bronze Age deities? Plastic must really be a headfuck for the poor ol' bugger 8(

 

[Mailmonkey]

Vote* Christiano Ronaldo in 2013, you know it makes sense.

fixed etc.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Garden of Eden IJ? Why create creatures who you know in advance will "Fall" then punish them for it? Assuming lack of malice anyway.

I think this is where a lot of us get it wrong. I'm starting to come round to the idea that god/jesus does exist but he's just a massive dickhead. Dinosaurs for example. The cunt's on the wind-up constantly.

It'll turn out that he was also that snake in the Garden of Eden giving it "Go on Eve, scran the apple, tasty apple" then when she does he pops back up as god "Ooooooh shit, you eat that apple? Oooooh shit bitch, what did you do that for?" while he's really got a big massive troll-face on.

What does god look like? A lot like this, I suspect...

 

[Marmalade]

Eve is was weak

Eh, don't flippantly try to trivialise Eve's failure and reduce it to God's trickery. Eve represents the perfect analogy of what it is to be human. Devour opportunity and taste/sample it all.

 

[parttime crackhead]

She was a filthy wee apple slut.

 

[JessHalo]

Eve is was weak

Marmz why did you cross out the is*.. what point are you making?


*crossed out in the original post its jest me puter dont have no crosser outter.

and Edit Crackster that's a monumental shift imo that you believe God /Jesus exist.When I look at creation I don't tend to think it was put together by a dick head though.

Dickheadness is a phenomena generated in human relationships after the fall from Grace ( Eden)

 

[Marmalade]

I am human and will sometimes make mistakes. I am responsible for my own misdeeds, no-one else.

eh, core to achieving happiness and contentment is the ability to accept and acknowledge personal accountability and responsibility for our actions. through that comes strength and confidence, and humility and openness

separately ... contemplating all these thoughts and experiences brings many positives

anyway

I need sleep!

'nite miss halo and any other EADD folks floating about

 

[JessHalo]

nite love

 

[Marmalade]

my favourite Eve. Curious at heart, and beautiful in spirit
(and maybe a bit of a shameless hedonist)

 

[parttime crackhead]

and Edit Crackster that's a monumental shift imo that you believe God /Jesus exist.When I look at creation I don't tend to think it was put together by a dick head though.

Dickheadness is a phenomena generated in human relationships after the fall from Grace ( Eden)

There is a slight possibility that I wasn't being entirely serious...

Think about all the wide stuff god does though. If there is a god then he has to be a bit of a dick. "Gie's yer first born son, ya cunt!"

 

[Infinite Jest]

Aye, old testament especially. There's a bit where he tells the Jews to do something, and then kills loads of them - "you should have known I wouldn't have wanted you to do that!". Plus Abraham, as Crackheid says.

I think we can get round the Garden of Eden problem in two ways, Shambles. Either see it as analogy (which is no problem for Catholics or Anglicans, who believe in evolution); or see it as part of a greater plan (why create us knowing we will fall? Because he knows we'll be redeemed - but we haven't got to that point yet); or (actually 3) God could be omniscent but only in the present moment, not able to predict future.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Divine Inspiration does look remarkably similar to late Bronze/early Iron Age ignorance sometimes.

I'm not having this. People in the Bronze Age were not ignorant. They merely had different things to work with. Is the making and widespread littering of the globe with plastics a sign of great intelligence?

Recently I went on a farm tour in Somerset. It was one of the most interesting things I did last year. Of the many things we were shown, at one point the farmer pulled out a small piece of metal and asked us what we thought it was. Nobody really had a clue. Which was fine because he didn't either, but it was a tool of some sort. Precision made by the looks of it. Then he asked us how old we thought it was. Again, nobody had much idea but of course, given the chance to shout a number, a few did. Someone said 1970's. And it seemed like as good a guess as any other, so well-made it seemed.

It was Bronze Age.

Don't tell me people were ignorant in the Bronze Age. They just had different materials to work with.

 

[Myshkin]

God could be omniscent but only in the present moment, not able to predict future.

What about the Alpha and Omega business then? Disregarding the fact that Alpha and Omega weren't used until the Textus Receptus, of course.

And while we're there, why did the Hebrews and the Chaldees et al read from right to left?

 

[brimz]

Right a quid apiece in, winner takes all.

i reckon....

knock
brimz
flipping top

You loose MM .

You think i need a Mod stick & the ability to infract people to make my self unpopular , i'm quite capable of the latter all by myself .

I will however enter in negotiations if Crackhead will as well . It's about getting the right team .

 

[Myshkin]

I'm not having this. People in the Bronze Age were not ignorant. They merely had different things to work with. Is the making and widespread littering of the globe with plastics a sign of great intelligence?

Hang on - you're not suggesting that we live in a society that is so arrogant about its paltry progress in 'science' (most of said progress being made in the name of the human species' own self-destruction) that it's bound in a terminal loop of material chauvinism on a par with even the most blinkered theocracy, are you?

That'd be, like, such a horrible thought...

 

[Shambles]

SHM: I think you're misunderstanding what is meant by "ignorance". Has nowt to do with intelligence - just that we know more things now by definition (cos there's been more stuff happen). Point I was making is that for a collection of supposedly divinely inspired writings, Biblical texts are very clearly the product of Bronze/Iron Age human thinking. And not even very advanced by the standards of the time. Most people were well aware that the world is not a flat disc supported by four pillars with "waters" below and more "waters" above (held back by a metal dome complete with hatches which were opened to allow great sloshes of said waters to kill everything except Noah & Chums). Bronze/Iron Age people weren't thick... but those living in the Middle East were pretty ignorant by the standards of their own time let alone today.

IJ: Yes, you can do the "oh, that bit is clearly ridiculous so therefore must be poetic/metaphorical" but it still doesn't avoid the lack of free will. If an omniscient deity knows what you will do then you cannot not do it so therefore have no free will. The standard escape clause (ie excuse some theologian made up) is that God must've created everything then kinda hypnotised himself to forget what happens so it all comes as a surprise. Which is pretty fuckin' spurious realy but such is the apolgeticist way 8)

 

[JedTheHumanoid]

I think this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent. I for one would like to congratulate Sweepstake on their mod appointment. Well done Sweeps!

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

SHM: I think you're misunderstanding what is meant by "ignorance". Has nowt to do with intelligence

Well that was ignorant of me. Oh look, I've gone and done it again.

Was but a poor excuse to tell my Bronze Age tool story. Which has subsequently suffered the mortal fate it deserved for its unseemly and ignorant (here we go again) intrusion into this thread.