Heroin "New" Mex brown powder-type vs. "older" black tar

[MinnTransplant]

Hey folks-
So lately I've been coming across more and more of this what seems to clearly be more potent and refined H. This being what is often a "lighter" brown-colored powder, whereas just a few months back the traditional black tar H was the type of dope that all the Mexican folks were peddling. It can also come as a "lighter" stone-type rock that is easily crushed to produce the "powder". Heck, I'm pretty sure it can be snorted easily from this stage, but I've always IV'd for obvious reasons For what it's worth I'm located in Minnesota, which seems to have consistenly high Mex tar dope purity levels year after year for some odd reason, considering it's geographical location. But does anyone know specifically how the production process differs and is therefore better presumably? I've heard that the brown stuff is practically just black tar that's been mixed skillfully with lactose and something else to produce a better product somehow. And I've also heard that it's a fundamental upgrade at the source production mills in Mexico.
Anyone whose tried the two types and knows what I'm talking about...shed some light on the differences between the two? How the production is "better"?

iThanks in advance mis amigos!

 

[MACstar]

That's a good question. I myself wonder what the difference may be. For some reason the powder has always held my curiosity, all I have ever come across is the gooey or glass-like tar (AZ, CA) And the potency is, and has been seriously lacking. I find myself puzzled after just shooting a ridiculous amount of tar wondering, How anyone can OD on this stuff is beyond me.

And this powdery stuff is more potent than the solid tar you say? Hopefully I will have my hands on some-o-dat powdery goodness soon.

 

[comatoserct]

In my experience and from what I've heard from everyone, powder is almost always better than tar.

so glad I live in a city that only sells K4 china =]

 

[robatussin]

perhaps the mexican cartels are finally pushing #4? On the east coast, I can not say I have ever tried tar, but heroin seems to always be a tan/light brown. If heroin looked like coke I would be suspicious. Since all heroin bags are packaged a few levels above the street dealer, I have only seen powder in rock form a select # of times. I assume more #4 pressed together would provide a tan/browner product.

 

[titicaca2]

It would be insane to buy stamped bagged of dope. Powder dope. I might have to take a vacation to the east coast.

 

[ThePharmicist]

As a fellow MPLS native/dope user, I've noticed the change as well. It seems that this tar powder is all I can get now, and I'm not complaining. I've heard it referred to as "ghetto powder," which is a bit disconcerting but the quality of it is beyond that of the standard tar I used to get. The rush is great and it's got a very, very long duration. I'm also wondering what the difference is, I know that the lighter shit is stronger and has less cut but I don't know what else. It is some pretty flame shit. It's better than the best powder I've gotten around here.

It's been this way for the past few months. Prior to the really light beige powder, I was getting a darker/redder powder. Then this shit came rolling through. I don't think it's cut with lactose, I think that shit is usually more malleable, and is a softer form of tar. I've also noticed that whatever this is cut with tends to produce more of a histamine reaction (at times I feel like my hands are on fire), but that could be my individual reaction.

@robatussin
I can get the powder in rock form around here, and this stuff is way different than that. Usually when I buy powder with a friend it's in rock form, we end up having to crush it - and we're buying average size bags too. I don't think the dope around here is packaged above street level dealers. Then again, we don't have an open air market.

 

[robatussin]

what would you say an average dose weighs? From my standpoint it seems that the rule of thumb for stamped bags is .1g per stamp. It does vary though from batch to batch. A street price for a stamp bag is NO PRICES.....does this sound concurrent with what you are getting? I think it is possible that you guys are getting the same or similar stuff, but where i live the stamp bag process is entrenched in the culture. Like i said I have received this dope in "rock" form, but it's few and far between. Also a side note, heroin #4 is pretty easily smoked on tin foil, so the fact that it can be smoked does not limit the product to tar heroin

 

[DazedforDays]

I have noticed that here in Vegas as well. Some of the Mex's have the gooey tar like crap while others have the lighter, more powdery form, the latter which seems to be much stronger.

 

[ThePharmicist]

what would you say an average dose weighs? From my standpoint it seems that the rule of thumb for stamped bags is .1g per stamp. It does vary though from batch to batch. A street price for a stamp bag is NO PRICES.....does this sound concurrent with what you are getting? I think it is possible that you guys are getting the same or similar stuff, but where i live the stamp bag process is entrenched in the culture. Like i said I have received this dope in "rock" form, but it's few and far between. Also a side note, heroin #4 is pretty easily smoked on tin foil, so the fact that it can be smoked does not limit the product to tar heroin

I see what you're saying. It's a difference in the culture. Out here, we don't get stamp bags (although I have heard of some making their way here, I've personally never seen them). I won't comment on the price, since technically we're not aloud to speak prices outside the price thread.. In my area though, you don't have the option of buying points. The dealers only sell bags at the .25g, .5g, and 1g+. Most of the time, that's rocked up to. That's speaking strictly powder though. I don't think we get very good powder here, at least compared to the quality of the tar (especially the shit the OP was talking about).

The tar, in my opinion is better and you get more weight for your buck. The minimum buy for tar starts at ~.15g and it's at a good price. I'd say with a decent tolerance the dose for this tar is around .1 - .2 and that will get you nodding well. For the powder I think .1 is an okay dose but it will take up to .3 to get you nodding. This is all speculation though. I can only base it on how it looks in my spoon.

Anyone have any idea why this new brand of tar would give me a mad histamine reaction when I shoot a good amount of it? I'm talking like a HUGE reaction. It depends on the vein, but when I go with my bicep, or even in the crook of my left arm I'll feel the rush and then start to feel really hot in the face, lips, ears, chest and hands. Not all those locations at once, like I said it depends on the vein. It's really weird. Could it have un-reacted chemicals in it, like perhaps more codeine/morphine? Or do you think it's an issue with the cut? The shit I assume to be cut with lactose definitely does not give me a histamine reaction, same with coffee cut shit and the sugary cut stuff, like the bitter sweet cooking chocolate or whatever.

 

[robatussin]

judging by what you are saying I think the powder heroin you speak of is inherently different than the #4 on the east coast. Histamine reactions vary but are usually limited to red bumps around the injection sites. Since #4 is diacetylmorphine and #3 is rather an "acetylated" opium spectrum, my educated guess is that the "rock" or "powder" dope of which you speak probably has codeine analogues which would cause a more drastic histamine reaction. I have never had the sensations you speak of. Also I think i should point out that .3g had me overdose last week, however I recently broke the physical addiction so my tolerance is way down from the point of .3 bags being a test shot of the dope's quality. I know in baltimore they have "raw" (stamp bags) and "scramble" (lower price/quality capsules).......perhaps you have whatever scramble is (i always assumed it was tampered stamps repackaged) I have heard it has a darker color compared to stamps

 

[oldirtydogg]

I'm at about 8 years of on and off use, and I can honestly say I've never come across tar at all, so I'm sorry I can't continued to that aspect of the discussion.
As far as the reaction goes, I've noticed very similar results when I use the same vein for an extended period of time. When I change to a different, "fresh" vein that the reactions go away. Something to consider, something different to try.

 

[DexterMeth]

Are you guys talking about the shit that gums up into tar when you touch it or breath on it?

 

[ThePharmicist]

judging by what you are saying I think the powder heroin you speak of is inherently different than the #4 on the east coast. Histamine reactions vary but are usually limited to red bumps around the injection sites. Since #4 is diacetylmorphine and #3 is rather an "acetylated" opium spectrum, my educated guess is that the "rock" or "powder" dope of which you speak probably has codeine analogues which would cause a more drastic histamine reaction. I have never had the sensations you speak of. Also I think i should point out that .3g had me overdose last week, however I recently broke the physical addiction so my tolerance is way down from the point of .3 bags being a test shot of the dope's quality. I know in baltimore they have "raw" (stamp bags) and "scramble" (lower price/quality capsules).......perhaps you have whatever scramble is (i always assumed it was tampered stamps repackaged) I have heard it has a darker color compared to stamps

I get the histamine reaction from both tar and powder in varying degrees, and thinking back the times when I've had the really bad histamine reactions was within 24-hours of taking Suboxone. I think the Sub might be to blame for that reaction. I've heard that from others at least.

Also, if your referring to tar as an "acetylated opium spectrum," I believe that argument has been had here and been proved to be false. At least that's what I've read in a few threads here. There is no doubt that the final product is indeed diacytlmorphine, however as with any reaction there is always going to be some unreacted material. I think the difference with tar and powder is the number of refining steps that are taken to purify the material. Again though, that's speculation. However, tar is definitely not a refined form of opium. I don't know if that's what you're getting at or not, I just want to make sure that's clear. If I am wrong though, please let me know.

I've had tar that's stronger by weight than powder, and vice versa. Being that we're buying street drugs that's too be expected. I don't want to incite a tar vs powder argument here. I'd actually like to here what the thoughts are on the OP's original question, I hope I'm not derailing the thread here. . .

I'm at about 8 years of on and off use, and I can honestly say I've never come across tar at all, so I'm sorry I can't continued to that aspect of the discussion.
As far as the reaction goes, I've noticed very similar results when I use the same vein for an extended period of time. When I change to a different, "fresh" vein that the reactions go away. Something to consider, something different to try.

I notice that certain veins whether used or not produce a certain reaction. Some veins produce no reaction, while others produce a profound reaction. Like I said above, I'm thinking it has to do with the amount of time in-between using Suboxone and then using heroin. For some reason I think the Suboxone is somehow responsible for the reaction. Because I have felt it with both tar and powder, just more so with this new dope.

Another thing I've noticed about this new brand of dope:
It has very long legs - I've taken Suboxone 24-hours after injection and still felt precipitated withdrawal. Albeit not as intense as taking Suboxone 7-hours after or 12-13-hours after, but it's still unpleasant. Crazy! Something in there has a long half-life.

 

[rachamim]

The average dosage per glassine (stamped bags) is 100mg. 10 bags, aka a "bundle" equals 1 gram.

As for the question...Tar can be powederised very simply but upon exposure to air reverts to Tar. This is known as hygroscopy, ergo virtually all Mexican brown powder is "hygroscopic." Tar, since it is made for injection, techically qualifies as heroin #4 though in reality the numbering system was devised a decade before Tar was "invented."

I have to add that form has absolutely nothing to do with purity and that Tar can be insufflated (snorted) just like powder.

Tar is manufactured using a less efficient glacial acetic acid. Usually acetic anhydride is used but in Mexico they almost always use acetyl chloride which is much less efficient. You can compensate by adjusting the length and temp of the process but Mexicans simply don't bother so their end product is never fully acetylised. Even without chemically fingerprinting the product you can identify Mexican product simply by its MAM ratios.

The key to its latex appearance is the lack of reflux during the acetylisation. Again they could build a very simply reflux apparatus but simply don't care enough about their product. Usually. When you get Mexican Brown today it has been produced as Tar then powderised post-manufacture.

(Edited to add last 2 paragraphs)

 

[hydrochron]

I'm not the one to talk sense i'm not a expert on this topic. But from what I think I know, they used to make brown powder H, before they ever made black tar.

So most likely, that's what it is. For if it was tar it would suck.

 

[DavisK4high247]

Mexican Brown powder heroin (not made from or like tar in anyway) has been around since the 60's at least. Long before tar ever hit the streets there was Mexican Brown powder, and in some areas it is available more again,where in the past 15-20 years most all mexican heroin was tar, before that it was mexcian brown powder, a real powder, not made from tar or like tar, and is availble in New Mexico I know at 70% pure retail according to DEA and state drug facts stuff, where as tar in NM is normally 60% street level , of course these are the top level purites ,but street level still. I think that the cartel that runs the area where Mexican Brown powder has been made since the 60's or before have gotten the old Brown powder makers to teach them or to make it for them using the old way because of increased demand for better heroin, and I have read,and heard from people that are very familar with the business that some of the Mexican cartels have been working with chemists from colombia and Asia to produce a white or whiteish powder heroin, to appeal to the east coast market I assume..

 

[epiks]

In the WA we have been getting it for a long time..We have the tar, then we have the brown powder, then we also have what everyone around here calls "pure" which is what the dealers buy to make the brown powder. It looks like tar too.

The brown powder is most definitely not snortable. It does rock up then also is easily crushed (with finger pressure) back into powder. If you breathe on it with a hot breathe it rocks back up or turns to a tar depending on the batch of powder.

 

[MinnTransplant]

Yeah, this brown powder is definately not heroin #4 in that "East Coast white powder", which I guess does technically exist here in MN as we do get low-quality stuff that's been brought up from Chicago and sold by the brothas. I don't have hooks for that right now though, and everyone has told me not to bother with it anyways.
The Mexican sources have all pretty much transitioned to this "brown sugaaaa...ya make me feeeeell soohhh gooooddd - Rolling Stones ). But basically, everyone seems to think that this is generally speaking better dope (and yes I've heard it called gunpowder-dope back in San Francisco, but never got it there much). Hah hah wonder if I just "gave myself away"...anyone remember me "back in the day" circa 2006 here about those adventures posting under a diff name?

 

[hydrochron]

Holy crap! It's you, good to see you again. I know exactly who you are. lol

 

[robatussin]

I should know who you are and I dont....feel free to introduce yourself via PM...

Anywho I think I should point out that what I refer to as "acetylated opium" is in fact tar. Like I mentioned the east coast #4 is diacetylmorphine and NOTHING ELSE. The west coast tar (and this powder apparently) consists of diacetylmorphine, 6-monoacetylmorphine (6-MAM) and also has acetylated codeine and other active opioids present (most of which have "acetyl" in the name), hence me calling it acetylated opium. I am in no way trying to compare dope saying one is better than the other. I would actually like to try tar because it is probably a more "full spectrum" high, however for a long half-life and the like the #4 would probably float most dope user's boats. The problem with using #4 is the ease in which people can cut powders and dangerous fentanyl "spikes". Fentadope as it is called sometimes always seems to excite dope addicts if they know other dope addicts overdosed on the shit. It really just ruins the high and makes the last half of the high (assuming you survive) horribly painful headache wise. I think it is EXTREMELY rare to find a happy ratio between dope and fentanyl. One is all rush no euphoria and the other lingers long after you feel like shit from the first wearing off.