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New JWH Urine TesT!!!, detect time really 72hrs??? PLEASE HELP!!

naginnudej said:
Wow, talk about a personal attack. If I made a mistake, please inform me, you don't have to be a condescending asshole.

I'm also not here to fool anyone pal. In fact, the AA is a bit more than meets your eyes. Nowhere in my post did I mention structural-similarity to THC; in fact, I avoided it because there is more to the Act then structural similarity.

Let's look here at the link you posted:


Hmm, it looks like you misread the act. Sorry to induce anger in you, but you are wrong. I never meant to act like a police officer. You seriously misread my post. Have a nice night. <3
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Apologizes for getting over exited. Too much coffee today I guess.

If you delve into the other section of the Erowid coverage, courts have ruled that there is a multi-pronged test.

Notes on the Controlled Substance Analogue Act
by Richard Glen Boire, JD, Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/fed_analog_memo1.htm

Simply that a substance has a similar effect to a controlled substance is not enough. It must also either (1) have a similar chemical structure, or (2) have been represented in the particular instance under prosecution as being intended for human consumption.

Well so actually with respect to drug tests, I guess you are correct. Receiving a bulk powder of an unscheduled synthetic cannibaloid is NOT enough, if it is in bulk or is represented clearly as being intended NOT for consumption, since they do not have similar chemical structures.

However, having been found within the body of a person, this would clearly satisfy the "human consumption" requirement, so you add that to it having a similar effect, and I guess despite lack of chemical similarity, you HAVE broken the scheduled substance laws, which could be cited by an employer as legal grounds for dismissal.

Yea, my bad. Apologies again for going off on you. They really need to pass some laws against excess caffeine consumption... obviously a clear and present danger to civility!!!
 
^ This is the line of thought that I have been using. I do believe though, to save time and headache medication, they will just draw up a separate stipulation so that it is obvious that it is not to be used by their court participants.
 
naginnudej said:
To all those who think this doesn't stand on legal ground: it's called the Analogue Act--your argument based on consumption and scheduling will actually work against you in a court of law.

Sorry to break the bad news but if you consume any mind altering substance (specifically scheduled or not) and it is found in a urine or blood test you're out of luck. Period end of story.
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Uh, you're completely wrong. The Analogue Act has absolutely nothing to do with this. JWH-018 and JWH-073 aren't structurally similar to any scheduled compounds. Whatchu you talkin' about?
 
AliceD420 said:
oh I'm aware! I'm just saying that that's my experience/ dilemma. I work for a drug diversion program that uses that Redwood test. I won't be going in for a couple weeks so I'm smoking this weekend... but I won't continue smoking it until I'm sure this new stuff won't come up on that test. I'm not sure they would ever test us for that but we do get random tests, which is why I was smoking the legal stuff to begin with, but I also don't want to have to admit to using this stuff.
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Remember, there's nothing illegal about ingesting JWH-018 or JWH-073. They may not be able to do anything to you regardless of whether you test positive for one of them.
 
Alice:

Based on the info from Redwood's website, it sounds like they are specifically testing for metabolites of -018 and -073:

How long can JWH-018 and JWH-073 be detected in urine?

The presence of metabolites in urine confirms ingestion of JWH-018 and JWH-073. JWH-018 and JWH-073 metabolites can be detected in urine up to 72 hours (depending on usage/dosage).
How is JWH-018 and JWH-073 metabolized in urine?

Both JWH-018 and JWH-073 metabolize extensively in humans via oxidation and glucuronide conjugation. Depending on dosage, the hydroxylated JWH-018 and JWH-073 and the carboxylated JWH-018 metabolites can be detected up to 72 hours in urine. Parent drug excreted in human urine has not been reported.
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I'm not a lab tech or anything, but my understanding is this: the technique they are using to analyze samples (LS-MS-MS) can ID basically anything that's present in the sample, but you have to compare the results to the known results for specific compounds you're looking for. It sounds like they're only looking for -018 and -073 in particular, so my educated guess is no, the test would not give a false positive if you used other synthetic cannabinoids, including other JWHs, so long as you avoided those two in particular.

If I were in your boat, I would consider calling Redwood. Pretend to be a parent wanting to test your kid or something, and ask them. Say you heard there are other JWH drugs besides -018 and -073 and ask if their test would detect those other ones. I imagine they would give you a conclusive answer. I'm about 99% sure that answer will be a no.


It's also important to note that, unlike a simple urinalysis test, this test isn't based on a cut-off level. With piss tests for weed, the length of detection is notoriously variable, because the test itself isn't all that precise, but THC and its metabolites are fat soluble so they hang out in the body for potentially quite a long time. This test will find the metabolites if they are present, but those metabolites are water soluble, so they flush out of your system quickly.

Last note - if you are smoking one of those legal herb blends that doesn't label the active ingredients, I would be VERY careful with your assumption that it doesn't contain JWH-018 or -073. There have been tons of reports in the countries/states where -018 has become illegal of manufacturers blatantly lying and claiming to have changed the formula to avoid the new ban while actually still containing the banned chemical. I wouldn't trust any of those unlabeled legal mixes to be "Redwood-safe" unless I knew of actual lab test results for that specific brand proving no -018 or -073 content. Think of it this way: these companies are already choosing to intentionally hide what active ingredient they're using to avoid legal hassles by not labeling it in the first place. I'm pretty biased against all those unlabeled 'headshop-safe' RC products, so I'm probably being a bit paranoid here to think this is a major concern, but still - be careful.
 
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Also, are you sure they are water soluble? I have read conflicting things but I most often read that it's alcohol and fat soluble and not water soluble...
 
truely agreed, i have alot riding on the fact that they could start testing me at parole anytime. Its a shame, cuz i make my own blend and alot of people in my position enjoy it with me. So this could be very hard on alot of us.
 
I was wondering the same thing, Atara, but perhaps it is because the use of this is so much more common than AMT for sure, and probably mushrooms too...
 
Coolio said:
Uh, you're completely wrong. The Analogue Act has absolutely nothing to do with this. JWH-018 and JWH-073 aren't structurally similar to any scheduled compounds. Whatchu you talkin' about?
Click to expand...

I thought if the person in question had the drug in their system and the profile effects were similar to an existing Scheduled substance that it would fall under the Analogue Act. No?
 
I think a lot of it has to do with presence of the probation/parole when it comes to drug court/ treatment court options, they are way more involved in your recovery, i.e. your lives. Also has to do with the fact that Redwood is a business, and in seeing the explosive nature of "K2" and "Spice" on especially the media, let alone the rest of the population that thought they had found a good cannabis alternative, they knew that their clients (whom are mainly probation/parole municipalities) would probably like to use this test. There was a snippet on my local news channel, which mind you is not located near any metropolis, outlining the dangers and accessibility of synthetics like "K2".
 
naginnudej said:
I thought if the person in question had the drug in their system and the profile effects were similar to an existing Scheduled substance that it would fall under the Analogue Act. No?
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No. Not even close. On a federal level, I don't believe anyone has ever been prosecuted for having 'drugs in their system'. The effects profile is not a qualifier for the Analog Act.
 
Read my second post on the second page. Is my interpretation of that quote incorrect/out of context?

I think you also misread my post. if the substance has a similar effects profile AND it is in the user's system/proven for consumption your SOL.
 
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The analogue act is such a piece of crap it is amazing. There are prosecutions under it that have been thrown out due to its vagueness, and very very few actual convictions, as in about 10 on a national level since it was passed. So I don't really get it when people try to make it seem all scary that "Oh, that's illegal according to the analogue act." I mean, so is, like, nutmeg, right?
 
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