Misc New here: Questions on Kratom and Blue Lotus

[Seattle_Stranger]

Interesting.

Really sounds like Kratom is a fairly safe drug...maybe ALMOST as safe as weed?

Or maybe that's going a bit too far.

How is Kratom when you mix it with weed and/or alcohol??

As far as "using less than usual doses"...I NEVER use less Klonopin than I am prescribed to take because I am not supposed to according to my doctor.

I don't use it for recreation, nor do I even understand how people do because it's not "fun" for me but maybe that's cause I need it.

I can take as low as 1.0mg a day of Klonopin, but my dosage is 1.5, so I guess I could take a LITTLE less but I'm not supposed to go below 1.0.

My tolerance for Klonopin is SO high because I have been on 1.5mgs and sometimes more for 10 years.

I can have 15 drinks in 4 hours on 1.8mgs of Klonopin and it feels NO different AT ALL to me than drinking off the Klonopin.

I'll just have a horrible hangover, like I always would haha.

It's just a pet peave of mine to be told to "cut the Klonopin in half" as if I don't need to be taking it.

That just sounds more like advice for a recreational user, not someone who needs it.

Also, what is "kanna" and what is the experience like?

Is that the same as Wild Dagga?

Do you know if that can be taken with Klonopin and Prozac?

This will sound harsh, but I sincerely mean it purely in the name of HR. I guess you can say that your attitude towards this is a "pet peeve" of mine

In regards to taking less kpin, I think that is a naïve standpoint. It's that exact thought process that gets people killed, thinking they are invincible to something because they have a tolerance. How do you think people who use heroin every day of their lives for 20+ years and have a tolerance as high as the moon suddenly one day OD on opiates and die? Probably because they thought that same thing you thought. You just said you "drink 15 drinks in 4 hours on 1.8mgs of kpin" which is EXTREMELY irresponsible. You listen to your doctor when he says "don't take less drugs" but you didn't listen when he said "don't drink alcohol with it". You and I both know that not only did your doc tell you that when he handed you the script, but it also warns you right on the kpin bottle as well. I've been scripted every benzo in the book, so you're not fooling me or probably anyone else here. You also just said that you never adjust your kpin dosage, and then immediately after said how you sometimes take 1mg and sometimes 1.8mgs, so which is it? It sounds like you hear only what you want to hear and are lying to yourself, refusing to group yourself in with the "users". I'm not reprimanding you, you do whatever you want, but don't be a hypocrite and try to put up a front to drug users about the drugs you take when you're asking on a drug forum what drugs to get safely high on in addition to the drugs you already take... If you're asking for advice, take it.

Sorry for that, but I could have saved your life just now. Think about it...

You're asking about the safety of mixing things with your benzo, which means you are definitely aware of the dangers, so why would you ignore them? Granted, kratom, kanna, blue lotus, cannabis, all are things that could most likely be taken in conjunction to your benzo and you'd have not a single complication, but why chance it with something you have zero experience with? At the very least, taper your dosage over the course of the day you plan to use the new substance, that way you can still get what you need but will more gently introduce it to your system.

Just be safe!! Don't be ignorant and assume everything will be fine just because something is natural, or you have a tolerance, or have done something stupid before and lived, etc..

Very bottom line: Go for bali kratom and you might consider flushing your kpins, as it's far, far better in all aspects than benzos IMO. Kava kava is a nice benzo alternative too. Kanna is an interesting animal that takes some experimentation !!!BUT!!! if you're taking an SSRI like Prozac I would definitely STEER CLEAR of kanna!!!

 

[Shaal]

Sorry, I don't really reply to your questions fully. I'd just like to bring a few remarks.

I've made a tea from Kratom powder, 5g, and I ate the powder as I drank the tea. I also finished my girlfriend's tea, so maybe that was more like 6-7g. I felt sedated but nauseous.

From Blue Lotus (macerated in vodka or wine) I get a nice sedation but I tried watching a movie and lost all interest in it.

From Wild dagga (20x extract, smoked), I got nothing.

I stay away from Kanna since it's an SSRI and I don't like the idea of screwing with my serotonin balance.

 

[blight12]

Kratom is magic if treated with respect and dosed properly, not taken daily and using only the leaf, best results from any legal stuff ive ever tried. Kratom will beats benzos easily for me.

Kanna i know well being from its source country, it works similar to MDMA/SSRI but seem to have a much reduced risk profile, could be useful for certain situations but it scares me since its Serotonin based, to risky.

A fat line of extract however was very close to MDMA without the euphoria but the feeling and weird visual effects are all there. I would say a better option to test for treating someting that an SSRI would treat as its definitely better then an SSRI, but I wouldnt get into rec usage.

Point is you cannot go wrong with Kratom if you use it responsibly. Best euphoria and usefulness you will ever get from a legal drug. And buy crushed leaves, not powder, simmer for 10 minutes and strain with a sieve, for a tea, sip slowly over time to check dosage and response.

Trying to take that disgusting powder or wasting time capping shit is just horrible. The best way to do the powder was mixing it wioth yogurt and getting it down that way, which was still torture .
The shit tasting tea iced and washed down with a drink is magical.

 

[Duke of the Realm]

I've enjoyed Kratom immensely since I found out about it a couple years ago. It will pick you up when you're feeling low and leave you clear-headed and ready to solve the task at hand. Red vein strands are my favorite as they feel more opiate in effect, as opposed to Maeng Da, or green veined kratom plants that give you stimulation without much of a body high. Red vein has a certain stimulation effect to it as well but could also be considered for pain relief.

What was interesting to me was the characteristic this plant has depending on the level of dosage. At low doses ~2-3 grams, it is mostly just stimulating, but the more you take after that increases the euphoric effect. Around 8-10g can make you sick and nauseated, much like too many hydros or what have you. Tolerance can and will start to build up as I was having to increase the amount I was spooning out. I found that the powder washed down nicely with pepsi. :s It tastes disgusting but that's the price I was willing to pay. At least the absence of acetaminophen is a plus if you were to compare it to hydros.

 

[blight12]

Yeah very dose dependent response. I always know when its getting to high because i get the shakes, hand trembles and anxiety. Not pleasant when you take to much at all.

Also on a decent dose smoking does weird things, makes it feel really strange for the duration of the smoke, all dizzy and unpleasant.

And going to sleep is interesting due to those crazy high res images that blow through your mind while you lie there, in such perfect dreamlike detail. Can be a bit disturbing at first.

Once had a full blown spiritual experience after trying to sleep on it, way more real then any dream feels. It was awesome. Im certain it does some other strange things we dont know about or are unrelated to the usual opiate assumptions.

 

[Shaal]

Blight12 and Duke of the Realm, so what would you recommend as a nicely sedating dose, without nausea? 5g? On my approx. 8g dose the sedation was here but it was quicly gone (I got out afterwards so maybe I just forgot about it). What about a dose stronger than 10g?

I got some "Thai" kratom from a vendor. They also have "Bali" and "Malaysia". Do you kow which one would be the most sedating? And how would they correspond to red / grein vein? Thai = red; Bali and Malaysian = green?

Also, Blight12, I chose the powder because the finer the grain, the more effective the extraction. It wasn't nice eating the powder left after drinking the tea it but it was feasible.

 

[blight12]

I just pour a shitload into a pot, maybe three cups of leaves and boil it with a lot of water so i can I can slowly and judge effects in that way. In the past with powder based tea i think i had to use like 20g for the tea for the same effect of 10g eaten powder.

Tea is nice as well since you make a lot and simply use it until you reach your required level and stop or store it for another day.

With the powder though its so fine that it cant be filtered out with a sieve or coffee plunger jug thingy etc. Would have to use proper paper filters and thats just so slow. The leaves are cheaper and work just as well for tea. I actually ordered it accidently an was annoyed until i realized its awesome benefits for tea over powder.

The Bali is supposed to be the most sedatory and thai the most stimulating but bali still causes me the stimulation effects in lower dosages. I actually dont like the higher dose Kratom sedation effects. Ive binged H once over 4 days and know what thats like and how nice it is but Kratom doesn't seem to get to that level before showing negative symptoms or bad sedation similar to exhaustion or anti histamine sleepyness.

The closest I got to real H was extracts, i think it was called Thai Essence and is still currently available. But then normal kratom stops working, and not simply as well but Kratom tolerance literally gets to the point where it does absolutely nothing no matter the dosage or even extracts besides extreme anxiety and physical trembles. And puking. Booze and Kratom = many puking sessions for me.

 

[Shaal]

Thanks! Do you get as much nausea from 20g leaf tea than 10g eaten powder?

To get the same effects, if you need twice the amount for tea, then eating powder seems to be the most economical.

 

[Mycophile]

This will sound harsh, but I sincerely mean it purely in the name of HR. I guess you can say that your attitude towards this is a "pet peeve" of mine

In regards to taking less kpin, I think that is a naïve standpoint. It's that exact thought process that gets people killed, thinking they are invincible to something because they have a tolerance. How do you think people who use heroin every day of their lives for 20+ years and have a tolerance as high as the moon suddenly one day OD on opiates and die? Probably because they thought that same thing you thought. You just said you "drink 15 drinks in 4 hours on 1.8mgs of kpin" which is EXTREMELY irresponsible. You listen to your doctor when he says "don't take less drugs" but you didn't listen when he said "don't drink alcohol with it". You and I both know that not only did your doc tell you that when he handed you the script, but it also warns you right on the kpin bottle as well. I've been scripted every benzo in the book, so you're not fooling me or probably anyone else here. You also just said that you never adjust your kpin dosage, and then immediately after said how you sometimes take 1mg and sometimes 1.8mgs, so which is it? It sounds like you hear only what you want to hear and are lying to yourself, refusing to group yourself in with the "users". I'm not reprimanding you, you do whatever you want, but don't be a hypocrite and try to put up a front to drug users about the drugs you take when you're asking on a drug forum what drugs to get safely high on in addition to the drugs you already take... If you're asking for advice, take it.

Sorry for that, but I could have saved your life just now. Think about it...

You're asking about the safety of mixing things with your benzo, which means you are definitely aware of the dangers, so why would you ignore them? Granted, kratom, kanna, blue lotus, cannabis, all are things that could most likely be taken in conjunction to your benzo and you'd have not a single complication, but why chance it with something you have zero experience with? At the very least, taper your dosage over the course of the day you plan to use the new substance, that way you can still get what you need but will more gently introduce it to your system.

Just be safe!! Don't be ignorant and assume everything will be fine just because something is natural, or you have a tolerance, or have done something stupid before and lived, etc..

Very bottom line: Go for bali kratom and you might consider flushing your kpins, as it's far, far better in all aspects than benzos IMO. Kava kava is a nice benzo alternative too. Kanna is an interesting animal that takes some experimentation !!!BUT!!! if you're taking an SSRI like Prozac I would definitely STEER CLEAR of kanna!!!

Thank you for the advice and forethought.

I just wanted to explain that both my neurologist and a leading expert on Benzos who wrote some books on Klonopin who I spoke to years ago both told me that drinking on Klonopin is not actually dangerous in terms of overdose or respiratory depression for those who take their prescribed dosage daily. I am not being hypocritical because I am staying within (or VERY close to) my prescribed range.

I trust my neurologist fully and he's scared me away from many mixtures I've thought of taking in the past like Ambien and alcohol and Percocet and alcohol so when he and this other doctor both say Klonopin and alcohol are safe together I believe them.

I mean, they also say not to drink on Prozac but considering I've been on it since age 14 I've NEVER NOT been drunk on prozac.

Also, the Klonopin bottle does not say "DO NOT drink on this medication" like, for example, the ambien bottle, it says "this medication may cause drowsiness and alcohol MAY intensify the effects".

My neurologist has explained to me that that warning is not the same as those which state "DO NOT" drink on this medication.

I remember 10 years ago when I first started taking Klonopin I'd get a LITTLE more tired when drinking, but that has never happened since.

Sure, if I took more Klonopin than prescribed it would be dangerous, but I generally do not.

My point was that my doctor tells me not to go below 1.0mgs and not to go above 1.5mgs, and that while I have taken up to 1.8mgs before, that I generally listen to his advice. I have a DOSE RANGE, of 1.0-1.5, so what I said to you, other than RARELY going over by only 0.3mgs, is by doctor's advice.

I believe that there are certain drugs mixtures where the dangers are greatly over stated (and some understated), and based on the opinions of TWO doctors, I believe that is the case with drinking on a prescribed dosage of Klonopin and Prozac and if they told me the combo was dangerous I'd listen.

My neurologist said to me, QUOTE: "you will not have respiratory depression or liver failure or overdose from mixing alcohol with your prescribed dosage of Klonopin, the only danger is that you might get tired and slip and fall or hurt yourself or something".


My belief is that in a few years info will come out supporting the stance that drinking on one's PRESCRIBED dosage of Klonopin or Prozac is not as dangerous as once thought, but we'll have to see.

When he prescribed me Ambien he made SURE that I realized that drinking on that was STRICTLY FORBIDDEN...so he is not negligent and wanted me to realize the difference between that and Klonopin.

I do generally take my doctors advice.

I will not take Kanna either.

Thanks again for the advice and information.

 

[sekio]

It really depends on how much alcohol you consume... If you're drinking to get hammered then yeah, that 1.5mg of Klonopin is going to make a difference. If you have two glasses of wine with dinner then it probably won't matter.

 

[Mycophile]

It really depends on how much alcohol you consume... If you're drinking to get hammered then yeah, that 1.5mg of Klonopin is going to make a difference. If you have two glasses of wine with dinner then it probably won't matter.

Well, I'm not going to get into a debate about it, but my point is that 10 years and thousands of times of getting drunk on this dosage I haven't ever noticed even the slightest difference to when I used to drink the same amount on no Klonopin.

And as both my prescribing physician and another leading expert both told me, the risk of overdose or respiratory depression is really not significant for me on my current dosage.

I've told my doctor that I get drunk, and of course being a doctor he doesn't approve but he said QUOTE "I don't approve of that because drinking that much is unhealthy, not because you are doing it on your medication.

He has told me he thinks I shouldn't drink, because it's unhealthy, and he also thinks I shouldn't smoke weed, but what doctor wouldn't say that?

Based on both 2 doctor's opinions and my own experience, I think the risks of drinking on a PRESCRIBED dosage of Klonopin are overrated and not comparable to drinking on Percocet or Ambien.

Even the leaflet which comes with Klonopin and the bottle itself never says it can lead to overdose, only that drinking with it can increase drowsiness.

Perhaps one might get a little more tired or drunk drinking on Klonopin, but I don't personally believe the combo itself is inherently dangerous on my current dosage like some combos.

I'm sure it's not "smart", but getting drunk isn't really smart either.

I wouldn't tell anyone else to do what I do, but being that my doctor doesn't believe it's very dangerous I am not concerned.

 

[f33lg00d]

^ "what doctor wouldn't say don't smoke weed"

When I was a kid my mom told my doctor is been smoking maryj and he was like just don't smoke it during school lol dude was a bro, old hippie.

 

[Hammilton]

Another leading expert? Lol wut?

I don't really disagree with you but citing unnamed leading experts makes you seem foolish. Also, Sekio is absolutely right, one can definitely die from overdosing on clonazepam and ethanol. Sure, you've got a tolerance and you're used to this combination. That doesn't mean it's inherently safe. Some have combined MAOI's and amphetamines without ill effect, I wouldn't suggest trying it though.

Also every question you asked here would be better answered by readin g erowid, that's what it's for, after all.

 

[Mycophile]

Another leading expert? Lol wut?

I don't really disagree with you but citing unnamed leading experts makes you seem foolish. Also, Sekio is absolutely right, one can definitely die from overdosing on clonazepam and ethanol. Sure, you've got a tolerance and you're used to this combination. That doesn't mean it's inherently safe. Some have combined MAOI's and amphetamines without ill effect, I wouldn't suggest trying it though.

Also every question you asked here would be better answered by readin g erowid, that's what it's for, after all.

I never said I was a leading expert, if you are referring to the doctor I spoke to other than my own, yes he's one of many who may have different opinions.

But as far as MY OWN PERSONAL NEUROLOGIST goes, who I personally will trust above ALL others because I know him and have for years and trust him, he PERSONALLY believes that mixing Klonopin at HIS RECOMMENDED DOSAGE and alcohol does not present any SERIOUS threat for overdose, respiratory depression or liver damage, only that it may increase drowsiness and like I said THE BOTTLE ITSELF only says: "increases drowsiness. Alcohol may intensify effects"

Word for word.

Whereas something like Ambien reads, word for word: "Do NOT drink on this medication".

I believe that the FDA or whoever writes these warnings has their reasons for writing "alcohol intensifies effect of drowsiness" vs " Do NOT drink".

My neurologist says the same, and I'm sorry but I'm going to trust him over people on an internet forum who do not have MDs and who I've never met.

Even posters here have noted that Benzos have little effect on respiration themselves but only in combination certain CNS depressants can that be a risk.

I believe it's not a SERIOUS risk with alcohol for anyone with any tolerance who is taking a prescribed dosage of the medication and my doctor agrees.

The only reason I wrote out that response was because Seattle Stranger said something like "You know Damn well that your doctor told you never to drink on Klonopin" and I found that kind of annoying and insulting because he did NOT say that, and I made sure to ask his opinion in depth 10 years ago before I started taking Klonopin and even went the extra mile to call another leading expert on his opinion WHO ALSO HAS AN M.D.

He supported my doctor's stance, and so has A DECADE of weekly drinking shown to have ZERO effects in combination with the Klonopin.

If it was ONLY my personal reactions to the drug that would just be anecdotal but my own doctor's opinions corroborated by another who doesn't even know me or have anything to gain by telling me that supported it.

I am SURE that you CAN overdose on Klonopin and Alcohol and the reason is:

Either by itself can be overdosed on!

So OF COURSE if I were to go right now and take 4 times my Klonopin dosage and down 20 shots I could die.

I could ALSO die just by downing 30 shots in 30 mins, or just take my whole bottle of Klonopin.

But My personal neurologist, not even just an M.D. but an expert in this area, supports that 1.5mgs of Klonopin for ME PERSONALLY poses little to no risk of overdose even with heavy drinking and so I believe him.

And let me reiterate that he does NOT even think I should drink at all. He thinks drinking is unhealthy and that I should only drink in moderation (of course it is unhealthy) but has still stated that that's my personal choice, and that he would NEVER prescribe me Klonopin if he believed it was life threatening for me to drink on, even in copious amounts.

He said the danger is my getting extra drowsy and falling and having an accident or something, but not respiratory depression or liver damage, and personally I have never even found the mixture to make me more tired than drinking used to when I was not on Klonopin.

He's said the opposite about mixing alcohol with Ambien, which he warned could cause respiratory depression, but not with alcohol.

He never made any statement that I could not overdose if I downed a bottle of Klonopin with a handle of whisky lol.

So, I don't want to get into an argument over this, but lots of doctors have different opinions, and based on my own doctor who I trust and supported by ANOTHER expert doctor, and backed by a decade of mixing the two with ZERO ill effects, I will take all that evidence over the opinions of online posters or doctors I have never met and I think that many others would do the same.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Not all pharmacies put the same warnings on the pill bottles. I would be a hypocrite if I told you to not drink on your prescribed benzo as I sometimes lightly drink on mine except mine is temazepam. I found an old zolpidem (ambien) bottle and you are right about it saying not to drink alcohol while taking it however my temazepam does not say this. Like your clonazepam it simply says "increases drowsiness. Alcohol may intensify effects" with that said I would put money on that my benzo causes just as much respiratory depression as ambien if not more. Just saying. I realize that with your history you're going to do what you want regardless...just be safe.

On another note I tried kratom (3grams) with two ounces of rum last night and unlike last time I didn't have any stomach issues. In fact it felt pretty damn good.

 

[Hammilton]

There's that unnamed leading expert you're citing again. Lmfao. Never used that abbreviation before, but you're hilarious. Either you're hearing what you want to hear or you're delusional. Or both, it's not one or the other, I suppose.

Also, your personal experience does nothing to support your claims. Actual research would, but you'll have a hard time avoiding all of the fatal combination of a benzodiazepine and alcohol papers published.

And calling on us to take the word of your unnamed leading expert is fallacious reasoning, sumptin we don cotton to rown here.

 

[Mycophile]

There's that unnamed leading expert you're citing again. Lmfao. Never used that abbreviation before, but you're hilarious. Either you're hearing what you want to hear or you're delusional. Or both, it's not one or the other, I suppose.

Also, your personal experience does nothing to support your claims. Actual research would, but you'll have a hard time avoiding all of the fatal combination of a benzodiazepine and alcohol papers published.

And calling on us to take the word of your unnamed leading expert is fallacious reasoning, sumptin we don cotton to rown here.

See your PM box.

I don't ask ANYONE else to take MY word or an anonymous doctors word on ANYTHING.

But I realize that you would rather focus on that than the fact that MY PERSONAL PHYSICIAN has evaluated ME PERSONALLY and my own medical history and ruled my habits to not be life threatening, and find it fascinating that you think personal medical evaluation based on an individual and their dosage is not as relevant as studies which might as well assume that I am an 80 year old women who takes 3 times my dosage of Klonopin along with Ativan, Xanax and Abilify or whatever other drugs I do not take.

You have chosen to focus on the LEAST important part of my statement because it makes me look ignorant while ignoring the importance of what I am saying: which is that the safety of mixing drugs is PARTIALLY evaluated on a case by case basis by personal doctors and cannot all be explained by online articles which never take into account other factors which simply assume alcohol + Klonopin + human = problem. Human beings and drug interactions are obviously more complex than that.

Because I said that my own personal doctor has evaluated ME and MY specific dosage and health history and ruled that drinking on my dosage FOR ME is not life threatening does not mean it is not for others.

But thank you very much sir for being extremely impolite and ENTIRELY misunderstanding my argument and calling me ignorant and delusional and using such mature abreviations as LMFAO.

I'll continue to listen to my personal doctor who knows my dosage, drug and health history over anonymous people and online articles thank you very much.

And yes, I urge anyone who thinks that mixing alcohol and Klonopin may either be dangerous or safe (or for that matter thinks ANY drug interaction may be dangerous) to discuss this with their own personal physician and take his opinion as paramount as it is the only opinion you will ever get that is based on you individually and takes into account your medical history, dosage and other health factors.

Mixing benzos and alcohol is OBVIOUSLY not always safe. And if I ever said anything to lead anyone to think I meant this, I misspoke.

All I know is my personal medical history, my personal experience, and what my personal doctor who knows me and my history says.

 

[Sprout]

Coming onto a HR forum and then ignoring any and all advice that isn't what you want to hear is pointless.

 

[Mycophile]

Coming onto a HR forum and then ignoring any and all advice that isn't what you want to hear is pointless.

Yes that's true, and it's not what I'm doing at all.

I just got into a debate with one or two posters about one thing we disagree on.

I NEVER asked for advice on that particular topic (mixing alcohol and benzos). The thread had a totally different focus.

I did ask advice on a different topic a few weeks ago, and I found the advice very helpful and (mostly) took it.

I just happen to disagree on this topic with a particular poster.

I think I am being misunderstood, so I will comment no more on it.

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

End thread /

 

[Sprout]

Whether it is relevant to the thread or what you asked, this is Bluelight, a forum built solely for providing harm reduction advice. As such, an active member will not ignore something that may present harm, that is the entire ethos of this board.