Misc New here: Questions on Kratom and Blue Lotus

[Mycophile]

Hey,

So I'm new to this forum, don't know what the vibe is really like here so apologies ahead of time if I say something I'm not supposed to.

I've done the usual drugs that aren't really hard, the usual mild pscyhedelics, bla bla...(also, I haven't really read many threads so I am not sure how open people are here about mentioning specific illegal drugs they have used so I'm gonna be a little careful about it, but I assume one can't really get in trouble for past drug usage as I've never heard of anyone arrested for mentioning that once they used an illegal substance a few years ago or whatever...)

Anyway, I am curious about Kratom and Blue Lotus, their mental and physical effects, side effects and whether or not they can be mixed with Klonopin and Prozac.

I'm also interested to a lesser extent about whether they can be mixed with with Percocet (oxycodone/Tylenol) which I only use under doctor supervision when undergoing surgeries.

About Kratom: 1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?

Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc

2) What are the negative side effects?

3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it?

4) is it 100% legal in the United States?

5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?

6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?


Likewise about Blue Lotus:


1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?

Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc

2) What are the negative side effects?

3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it? I have heard of Blue Lotus used as a tincture or smoking.

4) is it 100% legal in the United States?

5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?

6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?


Any answers would be appreciated,

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

TTT

I'm looking for a fun, recreational drug that is legal, easy to get, somewhat similar to the feeling of weed and/or percocet (I know they feel different, basically, anything from a mild soothing psychedelic feel to a mild opiate feel) which is SAFE, especially to take with Klonopin and Prozac, and fairly non habit forming.

I am not sure such a thing actually exists other than weed...lol (soon to be legal hopefully).

People seem to be saying Kratom is like this, but I heard one poster say that he's been an opiate addict for 10 years now because of it and that the withdrawal is HELL.

If that is the case, sounds like something I might like to TRY a few times, but not something I'd use consistently...

Honestly, another drug I really like the feeling of oddly enough is Benadryl/Simply Sleep BEFORE it puts me to sleep. Just that care free drowsy feeling, good for listening to music, but the problem is that it puts me to sleep and then I can't enjoy it haha...plus it gives me a hangover sometimes.

 

[lostinthespace]

My ethos is to warn about the bad before advising about the "good". And in this ideology that leads me to start with blue lotus.


Blue Lotus :: AVOID. I was sold this in a head shop once claiming it had "opiate-like" effects. That was utter bullshit! I think it acts as a dopamine (D2) agonist. MY personal experience - low doses resemble 1st Gen antihistamines and mACh (muscarinic Acetylcholine) antagonists. Low doses sort of "put you out there" - out of your own headspace but way out of touch with the "here and now". Imagine 150mg diphenhydramine, or an equiviliant dose of doxylamine. That sort of what it feels like. Not opiate like in the slightest.


Larger doses however for me the D2 agonism took over while still retaining some of the previous qualities similar to 1G Antihistamines and mACh antagoinsts. Memory fuckered, concentration and attention fuckered, slightly delirious, all with a nice helping of D2 induced psychosis to go with it. Not fun. Not pleasant. NOT RECREATIONAL.


Now to answer your question in reverse chronological order


1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?


Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc
##Low doses - sedation similar to 1st Gen antihistamines and mACh antagonists.


2) What are the negative side effects?
##See my more detailed experience.
3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it? I have heard of Blue Lotus used as a tincture or smoking.
##I used it as a tincture. It was very bitter. Never tried smoking it.
4) is it 100% legal in the United States?
[TABLE="class: law-summary, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

U.S. FEDERAL LEGAL SUMMARY​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

Blue Lotus​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]REGULATED
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

No​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]STATUS
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Not Approved For
Human Consumption​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]SCHEDULE
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Un-Scheduled​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?
##I don't know - but I would err on the side of caution. Definately when it comes to SSRIs.
6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?
##I dont know - I doubt it.


1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?


Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc
##Opiates with a mild stimulant edge.
2) What are the negative side effects?
##What you might expect from other opiates.
3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it?
##I like to make it into a tea. Some people grind it into powder and use capsules. Others smoke it. I've only ever used as a tea.
4) is it 100% legal in the United States?
[TABLE="class: law-summary, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

U.S. FEDERAL LEGAL SUMMARY​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

Mitragyna speciosa​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]REGULATED
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

No​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]STATUS
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Not Approved For
Human Consumption​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]SCHEDULE
[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Un-Scheduled​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?
##I take prozac and have never had problems with kratom. But this is just me, and doesnt mean its 100% safe.
##As for klonopin, the same safety considerations should be taken when combining klonopin with other opiates. Reduce the dose of both drugs, your best bet is probably to start at 50% of your usual dose of both and titrate upwards - e.g. percocet.
6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?
## Why would you want to take blue lotus or kratom after surgery beats me - that is when and why you take percs right? Because if your gonna be mixing percocet with some of the other drugs your talking about here to get high - now would definitely be the time to tell us. We aren't feds. We aren't cops. We're harm reductionist. We know your going to take drugs regardless of the legal or social conformity and niceties - we just want you to be safe when you do.


Let me answer that question in another way - do you think taking morphine, or vicodin or dilaudid while on percocet is safe? Especially in a weakened state after surgery as you claim? Possible with a little klonopin too that maybe you snuck in? Mixing opiates, possible benzos. Probably not. ESPECIALLY after surgery when your vital signs are going to be watched like pedophile in a playground.


Stay safe, much love

 

[jones-in_J]

Im about to go into work or id type more. With kratom do NOT gwt the fucking extracts though. I've been using kratom for almost 2 years, daily for about a year, and can tell you first hand for me they do not give any extra effects and make yoyr tolerance insabely high. I prefer regular powdered bali or malaysian. Try bali first its most like regular opiates the malaysian is more stimulating and less euphoric

 

[lostinthespace]

The black label stuff was the best. Hands down. Even if it was tainted with oDT.

 

[Mycophile]

My ethos is to warn about the bad before advising about the "good". And in this ideology that leads me to start with blue lotus.


Blue Lotus :: AVOID. I was sold this in a head shop once claiming it had "opiate-like" effects. That was utter bullshit! I think it acts as a dopamine (D2) agonist. MY personal experience - low doses resemble 1st Gen antihistamines and mACh (muscarinic Acetylcholine) antagonists. Low doses sort of "put you out there" - out of your own headspace but way out of touch with the "here and now". Imagine 150mg diphenhydramine, or an equiviliant dose of doxylamine. That sort of what it feels like. Not opiate like in the slightest.


Larger doses however for me the D2 agonism took over while still retaining some of the previous qualities similar to 1G Antihistamines and mACh antagoinsts. Memory fuckered, concentration and attention fuckered, slightly delirious, all with a nice helping of D2 induced psychosis to go with it. Not fun. Not pleasant. NOT RECREATIONAL.


Now to answer your question in reverse chronological order


1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?


Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc
##Low doses - sedation similar to 1st Gen antihistamines and mACh antagonists.


2) What are the negative side effects?
##See my more detailed experience.
3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it? I have heard of Blue Lotus used as a tincture or smoking.
##I used it as a tincture. It was very bitter. Never tried smoking it.
4) is it 100% legal in the United States?
[TABLE="class: law-summary, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

U.S. FEDERAL LEGAL SUMMARY​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

Blue Lotus​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]REGULATED[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

No​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]STATUS[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Not Approved For
Human Consumption​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]SCHEDULE[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Un-Scheduled​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?
##I don't know - but I would err on the side of caution. Definately when it comes to SSRIs.
6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?
##I dont know - I doubt it.


1) What drugs can the mental and physical effects be most readily compared to?


Weed? Percocet? Opium? Shrooms? etc
##Opiates with a mild stimulant edge.
2) What are the negative side effects?
##What you might expect from other opiates.
3) what is the most potent form to use and what is the best method of ingestion? Does one eat it?
##I like to make it into a tea. Some people grind it into powder and use capsules. Others smoke it. I've only ever used as a tea.
4) is it 100% legal in the United States?
[TABLE="class: law-summary, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

U.S. FEDERAL LEGAL SUMMARY​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

Mitragyna speciosa​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]REGULATED[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

No​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]STATUS[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Not Approved For
Human Consumption​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]SCHEDULE[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]

Un-Scheduled​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



5) Can it be safely mixed with Klonopin and Prozac?
##I take prozac and have never had problems with kratom. But this is just me, and doesnt mean its 100% safe.
##As for klonopin, the same safety considerations should be taken when combining klonopin with other opiates. Reduce the dose of both drugs, your best bet is probably to start at 50% of your usual dose of both and titrate upwards - e.g. percocet.
6) Can if be safely mixed with Percocet?
## Why would you want to take blue lotus or kratom after surgery beats me - that is when and why you take percs right? Because if your gonna be mixing percocet with some of the other drugs your talking about here to get high - now would definitely be the time to tell us. We aren't feds. We aren't cops. We're harm reductionist. We know your going to take drugs regardless of the legal or social conformity and niceties - we just want you to be safe when you do.


Let me answer that question in another way - do you think taking morphine, or vicodin or dilaudid while on percocet is safe? Especially in a weakened state after surgery as you claim? Possible with a little klonopin too that maybe you snuck in? Mixing opiates, possible benzos. Probably not. ESPECIALLY after surgery when your vital signs are going to be watched like pedophile in a playground.


Stay safe, much love

Don't worry, I just asked to be sure.

Not only will I not be mixing any Blue Lotus or Kratom with Percocet, but I'm going to most likely not abuse the percocet EVER again as I have in the past.

It's not the worth the risk.

Thanks for the info.

I also am not sure I'd mix Kratom with Klonopin, I'd do a LOT more research before considering it.

Glad I found this forum to help out with that.


One more question however: It seems to me that you are saying blue lotus is NOT FUN FOR YOU PERSONALLY...but personal preferences differ for drugs.

What I am more interested in knowing is...IS IT SAFE??

Especially to mix with Klonopin and Prozac?

Also, I do not understand the technical talk of agonists and such so please break that down for me.

I don't know much about chemistry.

Thanks again.

 

[Mycophile]

Im about to go into work or id type more. With kratom do NOT gwt the fucking extracts though. I've been using kratom for almost 2 years, daily for about a year, and can tell you first hand for me they do not give any extra effects and make yoyr tolerance insabely high. I prefer regular powdered bali or malaysian. Try bali first its most like regular opiates the malaysian is more stimulating and less euphoric

Do you have any idea if it's safe to mix with Klonopin and Prozac?

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Do you have any idea if it's safe to mix with Klonopin and Prozac?

Do not take this as fact, this is merely my subjective experience:

I have personally mixed kratom with klonopin and other benzodiazapines and it is perfectly safe IF you use lower-than-usual doses of each as they do potentiate one and other. If you've mixed percocet with klonopin in the past, kratom will be no more dangerous than that. As for Prozac, I have no personal experience with that, but I have read tons of people who do and have no trouble with kratom. I mix kratom with kanna all the time, which is believed to be an SSRI, and that mixes very well but I don't know how similar it is to Prozac.

In general, kratom is a very gentle substance that will produce fantastic effects that prove to be addicting simply because they work so well. The psychological addiction will get you before the physical one does, so be careful and moderate.

 

[Mycophile]

Do not take this as fact, this is merely my subjective experience:

I have personally mixed kratom with klonopin and other benzodiazapines and it is perfectly safe IF you use lower-than-usual doses of each as they do potentiate one and other. If you've mixed percocet with klonopin in the past, kratom will be no more dangerous than that. As for Prozac, I have no personal experience with that, but I have read tons of people who do and have no trouble with kratom. I mix kratom with kanna all the time, which is believed to be an SSRI, and that mixes very well but I don't know how similar it is to Prozac.

In general, kratom is a very gentle substance that will produce fantastic effects that prove to be addicting simply because they work so well. The psychological addiction will get you before the physical one does, so be careful and moderate.

Interesting.

Really sounds like Kratom is a fairly safe drug...maybe ALMOST as safe as weed?

Or maybe that's going a bit too far.

How is Kratom when you mix it with weed and/or alcohol??

As far as "using less than usual doses"...I NEVER use less Klonopin than I am prescribed to take because I am not supposed to according to my doctor.

I don't use it for recreation, nor do I even understand how people do because it's not "fun" for me but maybe that's cause I need it.

I can take as low as 1.0mg a day of Klonopin, but my dosage is 1.5, so I guess I could take a LITTLE less but I'm not supposed to go below 1.0.

My tolerance for Klonopin is SO high because I have been on 1.5mgs and sometimes more for 10 years.

I can have 15 drinks in 4 hours on 1.8mgs of Klonopin and it feels NO different AT ALL to me than drinking off the Klonopin.

I'll just have a horrible hangover, like I always would haha.

It's just a pet peave of mine to be told to "cut the Klonopin in half" as if I don't need to be taking it.

That just sounds more like advice for a recreational user, not someone who needs it.

Also, what is "kanna" and what is the experience like?

Is that the same as Wild Dagga?

Do you know if that can be taken with Klonopin and Prozac?

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Kratom with weed is very nice they synergize great together.

I have mixed kratom a lot with temazepam and a few times with alprazolam and with the low amounts of each I take I never felt like I was ever in danger but the benzo tends to overpower a lot of kratoms effects and just gives more of an intoxicated feeling. I've also mixed kratom with oxycodone and hydrocodone (in low amounts) and it basically just felt like a strong dose of kratom to me.

I've mixed kratom with alcohol once and while the effects were nice initially I got pretty nauseous as the night went on and I only had 2 ounces of vodka, I'm not much of a drinker though.

People tell you to take less than you usual dose of benzo for safety reasons because when mixing benzos and opiates it's not 1+1= 2 it's 1+1=3 or 4. So many people with tolerances to both have OD'd combining the two.

 

[Mycophile]

Kratom with weed is very nice they synergize great together.

I have mixed kratom a lot with temazepam and a few times with alprazolam and with the low amounts of each I take I never felt like I was ever in danger but the benzo tends to overpower a lot of kratoms effects and just gives more of an intoxicated feeling. I've also mixed kratom with oxycodone and hydrocodone (in low amounts) and it basically just felt like a strong dose of kratom to me.

I've mixed kratom with alcohol once and while the effects were nice initially I got pretty nauseous as the night went on and I only had 2 ounces of vodka, I'm not much of a drinker though.

People tell you to take less than you usual dose of benzo for safety reasons because when mixing benzos and opiates it's not 1+1= 2 it's 1+1=3 or 4. So many people with tolerances to both have OD'd combining the two.

That's the thing.

I am looking for drugs to experiment with that will NOT have me worrying about even POTENTIAL overdose.

If there is, then I won't use it at all period.

I don't know, I guess it's going to be hard to get a real perception of how safe it is to mix with Klonopin because people keep saying it's PROBABLY ok, but that you never know.

With substances like weed, booze, shrooms, LSD, Salvia I DO know pretty much 100% that I'll always be fine (except with alcohol it's more like 99% despite what docs have said, mine says otherwise and about 16,000 times of getting drunk on it says otherwise as well).

Sounds like I will just keep having to do more and more research on it before I know if it's truly safe to mix.

And what is "kanna" anyway?

 

[Snake_Eyes]

No idea about kanna I've never tried it.

 

[crestfallen]

1) A low dose of hydrocodone. 10mg with no tolerance, 20-25mg if you have a moderate tolerance

2) Taking too much (over 10 grams) can make you dizzy, nauseous, and dysphoric

3) UEI is like a super concentrated form but it's expensive and not worth it. Just get plain bali leaf powder which is much cheaper and doesn't skyrocket your tolerance. I like to mix a tablespoon in a cup of orange juice and drink it.

4) It's legal in most states, google it to find out for sure

5) I take lexapro and klonopin and it works great so I doubt it will be a problem with other ssri's

6) I would take one or the other. It's safe but I don't like to mix it w/ other opiates

It does have w/d's(if used everyday) but they are very mild compared to full agonists like oxycodone, morphine, heroin etc..

 

[Mycophile]

1) A low dose of hydrocodone. 10mg with no tolerance, 20-25mg if you have a moderate tolerance

2) Taking too much (over 10 grams) can make you dizzy, nauseous, and dysphoric

3) UEI is like a super concentrated form but it's expensive and not worth it. Just get plain bali leaf powder which is much cheaper and doesn't skyrocket your tolerance. I like to mix a tablespoon in a cup of orange juice and drink it.

4) It's legal in most states, google it to find out for sure

5) I take lexapro and klonopin and it works great so I doubt it will be a problem with other ssri's

6) I would take one or the other. It's safe but I don't like to mix it w/ other opiates

It does have w/d's(if used everyday) but they are very mild compared to full agonists like oxycodone, morphine, heroin etc..

May I ask your dosage of Klonopin?

I take 1.5mgs

Has there ever be a known overdose leading to death or liver failure from Kratom?

People mentioned it being possible to overdose, but so far most seem to think it's very safe.

I mean "technically" one can overdose on alcohol too, but I haven't really heard of it happening very often unless someone goes totally and completely off the wall.

One last question: I know we can't source on here, but what is one way of knowing that what one is ordering is high quality?

Does the quality really matter that much in the effects?

Thanks

 

[lostinthespace]

Well, I hated blue lotus. But YMMV. Maybe I got bum gear. I don't know if its safe. I bought it from a head shop, and lets be honest with ourselves, nothing from a head shop is 'safe'.

 

[JJ-180]

I put 50g Blue Lotus flowers in a bottle of red wine and allowed it to steep for about 2 weeks,before drinking. The effects were subtly different from alcohol alone, but not in any way I could categorize. On the whole I'd have to rate the experiment as a failure.

 

[lostinthespace]

You couldnt pay me to repeat the experience. Actually you could but still.....

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Hey Mycophile I tried to respond to your private message but your inbox is full.

 

[dmarie562]

One more question however: It seems to me that you are saying blue lotus is NOT FUN FOR YOU PERSONALLY...but personal preferences differ for drugs.

What I am more interested in knowing is...IS IT SAFE??

Especially to mix with Klonopin and Prozac?

Also, I do not understand the technical talk of agonists and such so please break that down for me.

I don't know much about chemistry.

Thanks again.

With Kratom type is really a matter of what your preference is. A lot of people use it instead of a pain pill, as a sedative, as an energy pill or even to drop addiction. The white strains are very pain relieving while the reds seem to be more sedating. The greens are the energizing strain. The best thing about Kratom is it is all natural so it is safe. If you have taken to much you know it. Like most things your body will reject it at this point. If you feel nauseous, have a stomach ache or even start to feel sleepy these can all be signs you've taken to much. The lotus is usually an extract making this stronger so you will not want to take as much as you would of a non-enhanced strain, and you probably don't want to mix it with another strain being that you don't know how they will react together. Hope this helps

 

[sekio]

The best thing about Kratom is it is all natural so it is safe.

Natural does not equal safe. Opium is natural. Belladonna is natural. Strychnos nux vomica is also.

There are plenty of side effects to kratom. There's all the usual ones you'd expect from an opioid - itching, constipation, pupil constriction. Regular habitual use of kratom will produce opioid dependence, as well as withdrawal from the stimulant effects. Some people don't handle the stimulation well - it is of the same nature as yohimbe, noradrenaline release-mediated, so it can cause anxiety in susceptible individuals. I've also heard of people who have trouble with their bile ducts when they take kratom on the regular.

You just have to try a little bit (4-6 grams) and see if you like it, and if you do, moderate your usage.

There have been relatively few reported deaths from kratom, likely because it has not been extensively used in Europe or the Americas, until recently. Like dmarie says, people get sick and stop taking kratom before they get gravely injured.

Consuming kratom can be kind of tricky, too. You need a lot of gel caps, or to be able to tolerate the bitter leafy alkaloid taste.

You also can't rely on every batch of kratom being a uniform strength. As far as I know nobody sells standardized kratom extracts. So you'll have to figure out a good dose every time you buy a new lot of kratom.

BTW Blue lotus is a pretty flower but otherwise just a waste of time.