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Harm Reduction New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

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I have not actually used Codeine before, I normally take about 20mg of oxycodone (percocett) to get proper, what would be a dosage of Codeine that would match that same high? thanks!
 
You would also get the Butalbital (water solubility is 1700 mg/L).
You'd probably need as much as can be converted by your body (~400mg) but with the amount of Caffeine in the mix, it might not be too comfortable.
 
Merging question about CWE on butalbital into the CWE mega thread.

The codeine, caffeine and butalbital are all going to dissolve in the water, so take that into consideration when you're dosing.
 
I haven't really seen anything in this thread about cwe with benzos. Is it just because that there's usually significantly less binder, and it's never really an issue taking large amounts of benzos every day? Or is the solubility of benzos similar to that of aspirin and acetaminophen, making the process a lot harder?

Just curious.
 
^ Its because there's nothing to separate.... benzos don't contain acetaminophen, aspirin, or anything else. There's literally nothing to separete. Take benzos straight.
 
I'm afraid I can't recall the source of this...extract from an extraction method, it regards codeine, or dihdrocodeine in particular, and people have contradicted some of what's said:

Crush thoroughly the tablets and carefully dissolve in cold (ca 20° C) water. Use approximately 2ml of water per 1 tablet, eg 100ml of water for 50 tablets. You may add more water if you can't dissolve the tablets easily. If you want to evaporate the liquid, it's better to use distilled water instead of tap water.
Warning: Boiling and hot water may destroy codeine.
Cool the solution down to approximately 5° C (41° F) stirring occasionally. Very low temperatures make the secondary substances even less soluble.
Leave the solution in a cool place for about 20 minutes to let the secondary substances settle on the bottom of the container.

Contradictions proposed:

1. I've read that very hot might damage codeine, but some say warm or hot water is suitable as a means of dissolving the tablets without damaging the product. Can someone clear this one up?

2. Is it important to leave the solution for 20 minutes before filtering to let the APAP settle at the bottom, surely it's had all the time in the freezer to do this?

Thanks
 
Dancan said:
I'm afraid I can't recall the source of this...extract from an extraction method, it regards codeine, or dihdrocodeine in particular, and people have contradicted some of what's said:

Crush thoroughly the tablets and carefully dissolve in cold (ca 20° C) water. Use approximately 2ml of water per 1 tablet, eg 100ml of water for 50 tablets. You may add more water if you can't dissolve the tablets easily. If you want to evaporate the liquid, it's better to use distilled water instead of tap water.
Warning: Boiling and hot water may destroy codeine.
Cool the solution down to approximately 5° C (41° F) stirring occasionally. Very low temperatures make the secondary substances even less soluble.
Leave the solution in a cool place for about 20 minutes to let the secondary substances settle on the bottom of the container.

Contradictions proposed:

1. I've read that very hot might damage codeine, but some say warm or hot water is suitable as a means of dissolving the tablets without damaging the product. Can someone clear this one up?

2. Is it important to leave the solution for 20 minutes before filtering to let the APAP settle at the bottom, surely it's had all the time in the freezer to do this?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Water in no way needs to be anything but cold for this entire process. APAP and Codeine solubility both increase with warmth, but your codeine solubility is already 1000mg/0.7ml at 21C so you WILL NOT get any more codeine with warm water.

Also, letting the APAP settle to the bottom doesnt really matter since all of it goes into your filtration apparatus anyway. I've heard of some people just skipping filtration and skimming the water off of the top, but its generally a lazy and inefficient thing to do.
 
But that wasn't my question. I'm aware of how extremely soluble codeine/dihydrocodeine are in water, warm, or cold. Personally I find using warm water to dissolve the tablets to be quicker than crushing them. So my first question has nothing to do with solubility, I'm asking whether or not warm/hot water could damage the final product, reducing the overall output. It seems to be a divisive issue.

I tend to let the water filter through first, so as to reduce the clogging of the filters. Once that's gone through, I pour some water onto the sludge, mix it up a bit, and let that filter.
 
Dancan said:
But that wasn't my question. I'm aware of how extremely soluble codeine/dihydrocodeine are in water, warm, or cold. Personally I find using warm water to dissolve the tablets to be quicker than crushing them. So my first question has nothing to do with solubility, I'm asking whether or not warm/hot water could damage the final product, reducing the overall output. It seems to be a divisive issue.

I tend to let the water filter through first, so as to reduce the clogging of the filters. Once that's gone through, I pour some water onto the sludge, mix it up a bit, and let that filter.
Click to expand...

Ah I see, I apologize for misunderstanding.

All the literature including the Merck index lists codeine as heat sensitive. The only hard figure I have seen comes from another forum, which says to keep it below 60C. If I find a better source, I will post again.

edit - several manufacturers list storage temperatures for tylenol/codeine products at 15-30C. Other than that, I cannot find a solid figure on temperature.

Bottom line is its up to you risking a breakdown in the codeine. Crushing really isn't that big of a deal, especially with a mortar and pestle that you can get at any kitchen store.
 
I use a pill crusher, two at a time, when I've tried it that way. Thanks for the stat!
 
One thing I've noticed about CWE's. For a "cleaner" hit, use the refrigerator instead of the freezer. Dissolve the pills in luke warm water. If you have the patience, let the solution sit in the fridge for up to two days. The APAP will basically "cake" at the bottom of the glass, so that you don't really even need a filter [granted, a filter will obviously be safer. You kind of have to just judge how much APAP is involved]. You could just drink the liquid on top.
 
APAP: Roughly 1 gram per 100ml at room temperature; around 0.1-0.5 grams per 100ml if the temperature is lowered to around 22C.

Aspirin: Roughly 1 gram per 100ml at room temperature. Same at 22C.

Ibuprofen: Roughly 1 gram per 100ml at room temperature or less.

^^is that for the opiod, cuz if i use 15 vicoden ESs then thats a lot of water, or should i be going by the 7.5mg hydrocodne?
 
Being organic compounds, can oxycodone, hydrocodone, ect not be extracted using a solevant such as ether or perhaps tolulene?
 
i8hooked said:
Being organic compounds, can oxycodone, hydrocodone, ect not be extracted using a solevant such as ether or perhaps tolulene?
Click to expand...

Extracted from what? they are already pure, what's the point?
 
rolls said:
Extracted from what? they are already pure, what's the point?
Click to expand...

The point?
to separate the drug(s)from the APAP and all that other stomach upsetting stuff.
For instance 10/325 lortab
or 5/325 percocett.:\
 
i8hooked said:
Being organic compounds, can oxycodone, hydrocodone, ect not be extracted using a solevant such as ether or perhaps tolulene?
Click to expand...

Depends on what their solubilities are like in those solvents, look it up.

Why not just use water though?
 
Anyone know how to extract the caffeine from these CWE? I tried a few methods in the past and I don't think they worked very well if at all.

Other than the caffeine problem I don't have a problem with CWEs, especially considering that morphine is my favourite opiate and drug.
 
^ I believe free base caffeine is soluble in water (in fact isn't most caffeine present as the base?) whilst codeine free base is insoluble. If you add a base to your solution you should be able to precipitate out the codeine.

Sounds like more trouble then it's worth though.
 
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