neurotransmitter receptor sites down regualtion

[madmick19]

bit of a strange question to do with post/preload amino acids

heres the question :

if you supplement neurotransmitter precursors to your regualr diet eg (tryrosine for dopamine and L-tryptophan for seretonin)
does the excess bioavailability cause the neurotransmitters receptors to down regualte??.

now being that L-tryptophan was once used as a anti depressant i have a partial answer but not really a definitive one as l-tryp does change mood states but i can t find a answer for tyrosine.....


anyone??

 

[bigmac74]

I'm not sure how it works, but it's probably similar to how plants take up nutrients. They will only absorb what they need, and leave the rest. If you pre-load with more tyrosine than your body needs, then it will probably just excrete what it doesn't need.

That's what I think anyway.

 

[Smyth]

Thats right. Except there is a bit of Le Chateliers priniciple going on and fat soluble vitamins and water soluble vitamins are retained differently. At least by taking supplements you know that there will not be a deficiency.

 

[BilZ0r]

Um, big doses of tryptophan certainly boost serotonin release, which will the down regulate both receptors, and the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5-HT (probably.)

 

[madmick19]

so potentially, if you added daily supplements of neurotrans precursors to your diet, that which is not used or stored is excreted, could the time frame of filtering the excess out of the body change the receptor regulation.... if it doesnt get filtered much in the first pass of the liver ect

is there a possability that receptor sites may downregulate within that time frame??

 

[/navarone/]

long time ago I was thinking of doing the same thing to cure my annoying feeling of numbness but i was also scared of a body feedback effect causing a low production of neurotransmitters once i stop the tryptophan/tyrosine diet.

I'm pretty sure there are some other supplements which enhance production of neurotransmitters without downregulating receptors or inhibiting enzymes that produce neurotransmitters. Some vitamins and minerals have that power but i dont remember which ones.

My last biology teacher told me that theres a 'self suggesting' way to enhance production and efficency of neurotransmitter activity, thought this is done through some particular 'meditation' which is much harder than it sounds.
Certain thoughts have a great power on the brain.

In case of depression and numbness:
Believing that u'll feel happy by taking some substances is just pure rubbish.
The cooperation of ur psychology is necessary in order to feel better.

In case of neurotransmitter depletion due to drug use:
precursors are necessary cuz theres a lack of neurotransmitters and they help a lot, but never by themselfs. A Gooooood sleep refills the brain with neurotransmitters, some exercise or activities help the body and the brain to be more efficent.

technically taking tyrosine and tryptophan supplements is pretty useless (unless ur chronically depressed), they wont do wonders by themselfs and apparently there is a risk if u take too much. A healthy and extended diet gives all the precursors u need(and more). milk, meat, eggs, fish, fruits and veggies all have tryptophan and tyrosine and plus theres a much smaller risk that ur body will down regulate ur receptors or inhibit production of neurotransmitters.
I learned that the body works on a specific chemical equilibrium and I shudnt mess around with it, meaning: do not put to much weight on one end but rather put everything in a equilibrated way.

The only occasions in which I would take tyrosine and tryptophan (or even better, 5-HTP) supplements i right before and right after a drug like MDMA, that ensures a good long-lasting high and a lighter comedown.
But when sober, the natural way is the safest i think.

I'm not trying to be a doctor or sumthing, what i said is based on my experiences and the solutions that helped me the most.

 

[GABAlover]

In case of depression and numbness:
Believing that u'll feel happy by taking some substances is just pure rubbish.
The cooperation of ur psychology is necessary in order to feel better.

Congratulations, you have just won the GABAlover award for profound ignorance.

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

In case of depression and numbness:
Believing that u'll feel happy by taking some substances is just pure rubbish.
The cooperation of ur psychology is necessary in order to feel better.

Could i politely point out that believing you'll feel happy by takng a substance and doing so is indeed a psychological co-operation?
Did you perhaps meen physiological?

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

Um, big doses of tryptophan certainly boost serotonin release, which will the down regulate both receptors, and the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5-HT (probably.)

Interesting; i think i remember you, or perhaps the dea.org, saying that of the avaliable 5-HTP to the body, less than 1% is converted to 5-HT in the brain...

So theoretically large doses of 5-HTP and/or L-tryptophan after MDMA usage also cause a minor boost in serotonin release.

My question is: Is the ratio between the amount of avaliable serotonin produced by the dose of 5-HTP and the serotonin release produced by said dose high enough to be truly usefull to the burned out e-tard in question (on a recovery basis)? Or is it outweighed by the further downregulation of already 'battered receptors', thus lengthening the recovery period? Or is the 5-HTP induce release minor enough, compared to the release caused by the MDMA, to be inconsequential?

 

[BilZ0r]

A significant dose of 5-HTP will definately increase the amount of serotonin receptor signal transduction going on. (Though I think tryptophan would be better for long term use).

 

[MattPsy]

Is it possible that rectally administered 5-HTP would result in a slight peak of 5-HT release? I would think that the bioavaliabillity that way would be much higher than orally.
I have no idea what made me try it, but 20 mins later a warm glow spread all over my body and I felt quite euphoric (dose of 150mg). No other drugs were involved, and had been clean for over 2 weeks.
If that was just a placebo effect then hey, pretty wicked (and unexpected!) placebo.

 

[Shari17]

Something I've wondered about

Is the ratio between the amount of avaliable serotonin produced by the dose of 5-HTP and the serotonin release produced by said dose high enough to be truly usefull to the burned out e-tard in question (on a recovery basis)? Or is it outweighed by the further downregulation of already 'battered receptors', thus lengthening the recovery period? Or is the 5-HTP induce release minor enough, compared to the release caused by the MDMA, to be inconsequential?

I'm a newbie to Bluelight but I'm slowly but surely learning how to work my way around (put the accent on the SLOWLY).8)

These are interesting considerations. Valid ones.

Here's one I've often thought about. On the paternal side of my family, my grandfather suffered with Parkinson's Disease (PD) and so does my father (his son). I've known it could be a genetic illness in some cases even before the researchers felt sure enough about this to talk about it publicly. For me, it has always been obvious that in (SOME) families it can be genetic. While I don't know the answer to the question posed here I have wondered, for a long time, whether or not the genetic form of PD would predispose their offspring to addiction. It is well known that in PD the neurotransmitters in the brain (or other vital brain chemicals) are seriously affected. PD patients develop the symptoms of the disease because they are lacking (and/or have low levels) of dopamine and other chemicals that cause the symptoms.

The children of the genetic form of PD, while they might not get the disease itself, may be predisposed to developing drug addictions. Opiates and other drugs might replace levels of these important chemicals that may run low enough to cause a predilection to substance abuse but not low enough to cause the Parkinson's itself. In my own family there are several of us who wandered into addiction because (I'm just theorizing) the chemicals in the brain were so low that once a narcotic was taken, was introduced, it (speaking only for myself) replaced that chemical-something that was missing and, even after just one dose I felt, not high, but normal (I can't explain this feeling).

I'm not saying that there was no euphoria at the beginning but I was 11 when I first had to use Percodan because of incapacitating menstrual cramps. I remember feeling that rush but it didn't last very long, even at that young age. Yes, I became a drug addict who hates alcohol but "needs" Opiates. The reason I'm making a point of this is because I come from a very nice, upper middle class family and I had a wonderful childhood. THE BEST! It was the best time in my life and it should have worked AGAINST drug addiction (and I didn't become addicted until I was in my late twenties, early thirties). Is it nurture of nature? In my case it was most definitely NOT NURTURE.

I would love to do some research on this hypothesis. If it turns out that children of people with PD have a statistically significant chance of developing drug addiction, then we can turn this disease (addiction) from one that needs treatment in order to get to recovery to a form of this disease that can be prevented in the first place. Any more ideas? Anyone interested in this for a research project? Treatment vs. prevention. This should be looked into and some studies ought to be done.

By the way, I had the hardest time getting off the drugs. I had to go through treatment six times. I was quite a lost cause until approx. 12-13 years ago when I found Buprenex.

Shari

by Golda Meir

We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for FORCING US to kill their children. There will never be peace with the Arabs until they learn to love their children more than they hate us.

[/B]

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

^ certainly a consideration.
Ive just finished reading this: http://www.maps.org/mdma/protocol/litreview.html.

Which has some interesting points regarding possible predisposition of MDMA users to impulsivity, possibly due to the typical re-distribution of the serotonin system found in users... its down a similar sort of vien to your post.

 

[Shari17]

Re the MDMA

yossarian_is_sane! ^ certainly a consideration.
Ive just finished reading this: http://www.maps.org/mdma/protocol/litreview.html.

Which has some interesting points regarding possible predisposition of MDMA users to impulsivity, possibly due to the typical re-distribution of the serotonin system found in users... its down a similar sort of vien to your post.

​

Hey, are you truly sane, Mr. yossarian_is_sane? Just kidding (I think).

What is that link? It looks like a book but it might be just a study. Thanks for sending it, but it's so long and I haven't had a chance to look it over yet. Do you know how many pages (approximately) it would take to print it out? I think that is what I'll have to do because I can only sit at the computer for so long and the first thing I do is to read, and respond to, my e-mail and that can take quite a while. I think if I printed it out I'd be able to read it in a more comfortable place.

I have to admit that I'm not sure whether or not this read is going to be something I'll be able to understand. It might be too technical but I'm interested in this kind of thing and I'm sure having this interest will make for an easier time. Yes, I think I'll print it out and read it in a more relaxing time and place.

Thanks so much for including the link in your post!

Shari

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

Yossarian is the sanest of them all (read catch-22)

Its basically a summary of quite a range of studies. Pages 1 through 185 is the summary although 101-145 are probably more up your alley. Not too techinical although i sat down and read the whole thing which mad more sense because of more context.

 

[BilZ0r]

Shari17; If you don't want to get banned, I would stop posting essentially offensive material as your signature (even if it is just satire).

On a completely different note; It is very unlikely that whatever genetic predilection to Parkinson's you have (or don't have, it could easily be environmental), would cause drug taking. If anything, a lack of dopamine would cause resistance to drug addiction, not the other way around.

 

[Shari17]

Freedom of Speach is an American right

Shari17; If you don't want to get banned, I would stop posting essentially offensive material as your signature (even if it is just satire).

On a completely different note; It is very unlikely that whatever genetic predilection to Parkinson's you have (or don't have, it could easily be environmental), would cause drug taking. If anything, a lack of dopamine would cause resistance to drug addiction, not the other way around.

You understand very little about brain chemistry and even less about other things.

Mr. BilZ0r

You understand very little about brain chemistry and even less about other things.


I don't know what country you come from, originally, but in America there is a freedom of speech which is guaranteed by our constitution and practiced by Americans. In case you haven't noticed, this freedom is not banned just because another person doesn't like what is being said or doesn't agree with your personal political purview. If this were true the KKK wouldn't have been allowed to march. If this were true individuals would not be able to state out loud or in print that the Holocaust never really happened.

If you don't like what I'm writing then don't read my posts anymore. However, there are far more things that people are writing, even on Bluelight. I love that smiley 'penis' don't you or does that bother you, as well? How about nudity all over the place? Should we tell people that they can't take their clothing off for a photoshoot in Hustler Magazine? Are we supposed to stop saying something just because one person doesn't like it???

What else would like to have banned? Are there any other words or pictures that you find distastful? Where do you draw the line when it comes to this freedom of speech.

I'm a little too angry right now to even spend any more of my time teaching you what we can and cannot do according to the American Constitution.

You sir, are no American as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't stop telling people what they can and cannot say you will be banned from here because your opinions are "essentially offensive material!"

And, by the way, my signature line is not SATIRE. It is something I deeply believe in and therefore I will not stop using it.

If you have the authority to ban me from Bluelight, then do so. If people like you can censor what others say then I wouldn't want to be anywhere near here.

I hope that others who are reading this will add their own views, either way, on what you posted!

Shari




by Golda Meir

We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for FORCING US to kill their children. There will never be peace with the Arabs until they learn to love their children more than they hate us.

 

[Shari17]

I'll take your advice

Yossarian is the sanest of them all (read catch-22)

Its basically a summary of quite a range of studies. Pages 1 through 185 is the summary although 101-145 are probably more up your alley. Not too techinical although i sat down and read the whole thing which mad more sense because of more context.

Hi...Oh gosh, I read Catch 22 a very long, long time ago. I'll have to get back to basics on this, but the subject matter is really so interesting to me.%)

Shari


by Golda Meir

[quote]We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for FORCING US to kill their children. There will never be peace with the Arabs until they learn to love their children more than they hate us. [/quote]

 

[Helios.]

R E S P E C T is a two way street.
L O V E is omnidirectional.

"As sane as Andy Weil in a Sheraton Hotel."

 

[yossarian_is_sane!]

You understand very little about brain chemistry and even less about other things.

Mr. BilZ0r

^I think this is the most hilarious part of your post...

I'm sorry but if you have an issue with a mod take it to pm. There's no need to rant about your constitutional rights on a drug website. Take a warning as that instead of a personal attack. Back on topic ----->