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neurotoxicity with supplements: just as bad?

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piheart

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
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3
hey all,

this is my first post on bluelight, though i have lurked once in awhile without a username in the past couple years. i decided to start taking mdma this summer, and i am glad i did. since the end of june i have rolled about 10 times. only recently have i started to read about the negative effects of mdma on here... and boy, am i freaked out. i realize that i have had what many users would call an unsafe schedule up until this point in time. i don't want to end up with the long-term comedown and neurological trauma that many of you are experiencing, and i'm so thankful for a safe place to come ask questions and read up on these things. it's such a shame that the world can't realize the potential for good that research on mdma and its effects could have on society, and for many of you, and i hope that this changes in the future.

so, there are places on this site that list numerous supplements that can help with neurotoxicity. to preload and postload these supplements might have some effect on how bad the neurotoxicity is from using mdma. i'm wondering if anyone knows how much these supplements can help? are there people who have long-term comedowns now, and really bad after-effects even after sticking to a strict supplement and exercise regimen the entire time they aren't rolling?

don't get me wrong: i'm not trying to cheat the system, i know it doesn't work that way. i'm not going to continue rolling as much as i have the past few months, a lot of it has been peer influence, which now i am seeing clearly for the first time. i also see the reasoning that there is no substitute for a good, long three months between each roll. i just want to gauge people's personal experiences, and maybe compile some info about this as i'm planning my next few months. thanks guys. <3
 
Welcome to Bluelight, I hope you decide to stick around :)

piheart said:
there is no substitute for a good, long three months between each roll.
Click to expand...

This pretty much. There is nothing that can keep your rolls safer than that... but what do you do for those three months? Well, instead of loading yourself with (untested) supplements, I personally think it is much safer, and healthier for you to go the natural route.


Healthy diet high in tryptophan (foods like turkey, milk, nuts/seed are all high in it), exercise (not necessarily working out, but not sitting on your ass for hours.) and exposure to sunlight (doesn't have to be direct sunlight, the sun is powerful enough to shine through clouds and reach into the shade) have all been proven to stimulate serotonin production..... and to do it 100% safely, to boot.

Really the best thing that will keep you safer and make your rolls better, is living a healthy lifestyle. It probably sounds a bit dumb, and I'm sure that taking a pill seems easier... but I think you'll see much more promising results if you do those 3 things I mentioned. Diet is probably the most important really, followed by exercise then sunlight. There are of course other things that can effect serotonin, but those are the probably the easiest for you to alter..



Our moderator DarksidedSam has a great guide on the diet, you should check it out ;)
 
Indeed i do , here it is : http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/entries/...equire-lower-dose-and-lessen-have-no-comedown

But to be honest, WAITING is the most important thing about mdma. Even with Vitamin C and E, and my e-diet and everything, i rolled not even a month waiting and the comedown i got mid week sucked balls.

You have got to wait i think, I know of people who eat a gram or more of mdma in one night and get nowhere near as high as me which is kinda sad if you think about it.
 
If you're looking to reduce the specific neurotoxicity that is hypothesized to be caused by MDMA then a low dose and minimizing re-doses is most important. In all studies analysing the effects of neurotoxicity in rats - a neurotoxic dose is typically administered and this is normally pretty large, 5+mg/kg minimum, but certainly not uncommon for humans to administer. Subsequently, I don't believe lower doses of MDMA to be neurotoxic but accumulated lower doses used without moderation will still cause damage - but not the acute neurotoxicity that you mention. Neurotoxicity is thought to occur due to dopamine-derived oxidative free radicals binding to serotonin receptors (in the absence of serotonin) and thereby destroying them. It makes sense that if you don't excessively redose MDMA stays primarily serotonergic and doesn't cause excessive dopamine to flood the empty serotonin receptors.

Have a look at the supplements megathread - loads of antioxidants listed that attempt to reduce the oxidative free radicals that mdma can cause. It is important that you take them while coming down or just post-experience as this is when neurotoxicity is likely to occur. Serotonin is depleted, excessive dopamine enters the synapse, is oxidized and destroys the serotonin receptor.

Dose low, re-dose sparingly and try antioxidants (orange juice is my usual choice).
 
I use Vitamin C and E religiously with MDMA/Amphetamine use to help prevent neurotoxicty - Vitamin E is fat soluble so dont go to hard on it as i can accumulate and cause toxicity itself, Vitamin C however is water soluble and isnt stored so you need to keep topping up on it. Other antioxidants help too think natural herbs/teas etc but the amount is probably not going to be doing a lot

Cant say whether I have felt much of a difference using or not using, I dont suffer any severe comedowns even with the supposedly "horrid" meth/MDMA combedowns however I can vouch, off topic, that repeated use of MDMA every weekend dont be surprised if the "I never get comedowns" starts turning into "fucking hell dude im scattered".... I have used Antioxidants since my 3rd time rolling onwards and have had my binge on mdma...my use has and is easing up though for obvious reasons.... so while I cant vouch that they have had a deffinitive effect I can tell you they arent a ticket to being able to roll everyweekend safely, safer maybe yes, but not safe.
 
Folley said:
Welcome to Bluelight, I hope you decide to stick around :)



This pretty much. There is nothing that can keep your rolls safer than that... but what do you do for those three months? Well, instead of loading yourself with (untested) supplements, I personally think it is much safer, and healthier for you to go the natural route.


Healthy diet high in tryptophan (foods like turkey, milk, nuts/seed are all high in it), exercise (not necessarily working out, but not sitting on your ass for hours.) and exposure to sunlight (doesn't have to be direct sunlight, the sun is powerful enough to shine through clouds and reach into the shade) have all been proven to stimulate serotonin production..... and to do it 100% safely, to boot.

Really the best thing that will keep you safer and make your rolls better, is living a healthy lifestyle. It probably sounds a bit dumb, and I'm sure that taking a pill seems easier... but I think you'll see much more promising results if you do those 3 things I mentioned. Diet is probably the most important really, followed by exercise then sunlight. There are of course other things that can effect serotonin, but those are the probably the easiest for you to alter..



Our moderator DarksidedSam has a great guide on the diet, you should check it out ;)
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply! i'll be sure to check that guide out. i'm vegetarian and tend to eat pretty healthy most of the time so that's not a problem, supplements just seem like a good addition. yeah, i'm having a tough time rationalizing the three-month thing just because it seems so long, but i trust you guys more than my friends. i rolled three times last month and am definitely feeling less than perfect... so i'm taking a break from alcohol, weed, cigarettes, everything this month. hopefully that will help too.
 
Darksidesam said:
Indeed i do , here it is : http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/entries/...equire-lower-dose-and-lessen-have-no-comedown

But to be honest, WAITING is the most important thing about mdma. Even with Vitamin C and E, and my e-diet and everything, i rolled not even a month waiting and the comedown i got mid week sucked balls.

You have got to wait i think, I know of people who eat a gram or more of mdma in one night and get nowhere near as high as me which is kinda sad if you think about it.
Click to expand...

that is sad :/ i am still having a tough time because most of my rolls are for events, and most of the time when i go to edm stuff it's so much better when i'm rolling. like, i have an event dec 1 and one dec 30-31, so it's tempting to just wait one month-ish. alcohol doesn't really do it for me, and weed is alright but not at shows. it's so hard for me to abstain. i usually only take around 140 mg each time, maybe twice i've taken around 200, but no more, and i do fine.
 
I know what your on about, the vibes are unreal but its really worth the wait trust, although i tend to make lots of others jealous.

I actually notice its the girls that get very high , i tend to be smiling and buzzing with lots of the girls moreso than the lads, maybe they always overdo it haha ;)
 
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