Bupe need advice about stopping suboxone; now have stopped. merged thread.

[curlygurl1980]

just wanted to tell thank u to every single person that has posted encoureging( xcuse the spelling thoughfull words to me. every one of them means alot and makes me feel like i am not all alone in my fight. today was day two at the clinic and i must say that i feel really well i am not hurting my brain isnt screaming at me and i slept unbeleivably good last night!!!! I feel at peace and i have not felt like this since i came off of my subs and it is such a wonderfull feeling it really is so even though all this turmoil is happening with my husband i can honestly say that i can move forward with MY life with a sound mind and peace in my heart and i know without a shadow of doubt i am doing the right thing. again thank u everyone for all of your kind words this is the only place where i have support and with out bl i dont know where i would be. much love, Miranda

 

[curlygurl1980]

he told me again this morning it was over. i cant breath i cant function i am a disgusting addict. when i look in the mirror and a pretty face stares back at me but on the inside i feel unworthy disgusting i have actually always had a pretty good self esteem but my husband who is so close to perfect its unreall has proved that i am a nothing. i have fucked up my marriage u knowi have never been married bfore it was the best day of my life u know i never thought i would get married for a long time i just bounced from here to there with no car no job i just did drugs. i am disgusting when i met my husband and he knew my past but still wanted to marry me i couldnt bleive it. he is a hard working wonderfull provider he does not do hard drugs but he does smoke pot. anyways he is a wonderfull father u know he has custody of his 3 boys from a previous marriage. i take care of them, i dont know another woman that would have taken on what i have. then we have a two year old together and i have another daughter who is twelve. he was married for ten years bfore she was an addict but she pawned all of his stuff and fucked around on him and did all kinds of stuff and guess what she even went to the methadone clinic and u know what she left him for another manh he begged her not to. so now because of what she did to him he says he wont stand for nothing out of me. he says he didnt realize i still had problem he thought it was only in my past which pretty fucking stupid bc when he met me he was going thru his divorce and partying alot (drinking) and guess what i was eating pills snorting hella cocaine eating roll etc so how in the hell did he not think i still had a prob? he says he didnt think it was everyday now mind you there were plenty of times i would go and buy 50 to 75 loritabs that he i about !! where the prob came in is that i was getting more pills like ocs etc.. that he didnt know about but someone who i though was my friend told on me. he would only let me take loritabs nothing else bc of his ex. stupid i know. but where i was in the wrong was that i was getting stuff behind his back and he said he would have never married me if he knew i had to have something everyday. so here i am today fixin to be all alone with my girls. i have lost the most beautifull person i have ever known. but i had to get on the methadone i had too. i had to do it for me. i dont work i am a house wife i have no college degree so i can get a good job but i will make it i have to and i really do bleive if he would leave me for trying to get better even though he does not agree with it he would have left me sooner or later over something else. i am broken i am lost nand sadness washes over me like waves in the ocean

 

[SubDude]

^ If it's absolutely over make sure you get a good atty to split assets along with a fair temporary support. Quickly go to AFDC to see what you qualify for so you can take care of your girls in case he's going to be a dick about it.

Next go to your local community college and start preparing yourself for independence. You will likely be surprised the amt of financial aid you can get.

You WILL get thru this and can use this stumbling block as a stepping stone. Becoming independent will be an amazing and satisfying journey...

 

[curlygurl1980]

thank u SubDude i am trying to look at the positives and goin back to school has always been a dream of mine although i have no idea what feild to go in. a friend of mine is a single mother and she was telling me yesterday just what u said about financial aid. thanx again bl is the only support i have. happy thanks giving

 

[jamesBrown]

^ If it's absolutely over make sure you get a good atty to split assets along with a fair temporary support.

Actually, given her past drug use history(which is extensive) and her recent induction into methadone rehabilitation after "failing"(thats how the courts will see it) suboxone maintanence, and the fact that she never worked to "contribute" to the household, she will probably be made to look like a stupid, lazy, junky, and basically a bad person overall. Im not saying I feel this way, im just saying that this is how your husbands attorney(if he gets one) would "attack" you. Its EXTREMELY easy for them to make you look that way and take away all your privelages with your own kids even, not to mention all the "stuff" you guys shared during your marriage. He could very easily end up getting all of the stuff from your house and you would get squat.
Drug use is really something that the courts do not tolerate and they slam down hard on people who are users, especially when they are responsible for the welfare of children. You better hope this doesnt go to court cuz you will probably lose your children(atleast for a while) because I guarantee you that the drug issue is the first one that will come up.

Your best option is hoping that your husband doesnt want to cause problems. As in, he doesnt want to involve attorneys, and he has no problem splitting up your stuff(but dont expect to get ANY of his money). If this divorce is going to go through you better hopethat its simple and quick. He has alot of power because he has the wild card of your drug use to pull out at any time to cause ALOT of trouble for you.

I want to type more but its allready a long post, my backs hurting like hell, and I have another MRI to go to.

Good luck, I hope everything goes well for you, and remember to stay positive. There are always lots of "new beginnings" in life and if you look forward to them, they are more likely to end up a positive change.

 

[oldhead]

Good luck on your MRI JB and again for all you post on here. You are huge to me and about 5 other friends.

 

[curlygurl1980]

jb yes i know how i would look thankfully my husband is not like that at all. my kids are my life and he knows that so that will never ever b a problem we will just split things up acordingly and that will b that. that is one thing i am very very thankfull for he knows i am a good mom and would never ever try and take my kids

 

[SubDude]

jb yes i know how i would look thankfully my husband is not like that at all. my kids are my life and he knows that so that will never ever b a problem we will just split things up acordingly and that will b that. that is one thing i am very very thankfull for he knows i am a good mom and would never ever try and take my kids

I hope thats the case... but divorces tend to bring out the worst in some people... and unfortunately, they rarely go smooth with kids involved. If there are significant assets... [acquired during the marriage] most states automatically award 50/50 regardless of who actually "earned" them. If there's little or no assets, the issues will be alimony/spousal support, custody, visitation, and child support.... which disputes can easily arise from. You probably want joint custody with you having primary physical. Just remember, the more overnite visitation time he gets with the children, the less financial child support he will likely be required to pay.

It's always good to settle a divorce outside court... but if a glitch or two comes up, don't worry about a judge "penalizing" you because you have a history of drug dependence... especially if it started with pain mgt. If it becomes an issue, a good atty can usually explain ORT is irrelevant to parenting skills, ability, and history. You therapist, counselor, friends, and family can provide an Affidavit or be deposed to verify that. Of course thats assuming it's true and you don't have any past legal or neglect issues. You can check out BL's Legal category for more advice. Or go to the following:

http://forum.freeadvice.com/family-law-57/

Once again... good luck and keep us posted.

 

[stray cat]

i would definitely recommend at least consulting with an attorney about all this if it does look like divorce is going to happen. there are a lot of legal intricacies that can vary by state (e.g. you could live in a community property state), and it is always best imo for a non-attorney to speak with a lawyer about these issues.

 

[Suboxone]

don't quit. if you've been an addict for ten years than you need to let yourself adjust to sober life. most doctors suggest being on buprenorphine for (minimum) a few years.

if you want to quit, talk it over with your doctor and do things the right way rather than trusting some kids on the internet.

 

[curlygurl1980]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this last post confused me mybe u just read thru my thread a little here and a little there i have been off of my subs for at least a month now which i will assume is what u r talking about.and i come on here to get advice and opionions from people. of course i consult my doctor when it has anything to do with my health or medication.

 

[DexterMeth]

hey everyone i have gotten great advice bfore so i am hoping u guys will give me some of your opinions again. i have been on my suboxone for 3 months now and i am precribed 2 a day i have gotten myself down already to only taking 1 half a day now and i am thinkin about stopping all together. i have been an opiate addict for ten years by the way and i definitley dont want to go back to that my question is do yall think its to soon to quit and also at what dose does one usually just stop altogether at and how long do i need to b on that dose if i do stop i just want to continue stepping down. i was thinking a quarter of a 8 mg pill and the stopping altogether. (i take mine sublingual by the way). all advice is welcomed and needed!! thanx

I think only you know the answer as to whether it's time for you stop stop or not yet. Comming from an outside perspective/based off your syntax, I'd say you obviously are still fiending some, but it's also completely obvious that you want to quit, and furthermore sound like you're ready to.

Asking for what dose it's ok to stop at? Really? You must be having 2nd thoughts. What's the worst that can happen? You still have your subs, don't throw them away.

The common amount most people are on when they stop subs? Good question, and I have no clue, although perhaps I should. All I'm saying is it's obviously up to you and is different for everyone.

 

[Pegasus]

Common amount most people jump off is around 0.2mg... which is certainly the ideal scenario.

I think OP is on MMT now, though...

 

[Dr. Beat]

I have just read this whole thread, and there is lots of good info here, especially from James Brown, but there is one thing he says which I think is wrong:

Low dose Buprenorphine is much more euphoric than high dose Buprenorphine because low dose Buprenorphine hits Mu receptors and blocks Kappa receptors, medium doses of Buprenorphine blocked Delta receptors, and high doses of Buprenorphine activates ORL1 receptors.

As Buprenorphine has such a long half life, taking 4mg a day over a few weeks will increase the Buprenorphine in your system to a high amount, hitting all 4 receptors.

activating Mu and blocking Kappa receptors increases Dopamine.
blocking Delta and activating ORL1 receptors lowers Dopamine.

So it should be obvious as to why low doses of Buprenorphine is best. I have been on Buprenorphine for over 4 years, and thinking of getting off it, so reading this thread was really helpful! So thanks everyone, especially James Brown.

I have been prescribed 4mg most of the time, but try to take only 2mg a day, every second or third day, to get better energy from it.

nor-Buprenorphine does not normally cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier, so it should not give you much, if any, euphoria. But it does hit opiate receptors in the body, depressing breathing and increasing constipation, and other effects.

I also believe some people are born with low opiate receptors, or low natural endorphins, so these people are much more likely to get addicted to opiates or other drugs (alcohol, etc). Plenty of people try opiates, either curious, or get injured so they are prescribed them. Your brain chemistry then determines if you get addicted or not. Just my opinion (and a lot of addiction scientists)

 

[Dr. Beat]

I have just read this whole thread, and there is lots of good info here, especially from James Brown, but there is one thing he says which I think is wrong:

Low dose Buprenorphine is much more euphoric than high dose Buprenorphine because low dose Buprenorphine hits Mu receptors and blocks Kappa receptors, medium doses of Buprenorphine blocked Delta receptors, and high doses of Buprenorphine activates ORL1 receptors.

As Buprenorphine has such a long half life, taking 4mg a day over a few weeks will increase the Buprenorphine in your system to a high amount, hitting all 4 receptors.

activating Mu and blocking Kappa receptors increases Dopamine.
blocking Delta and activating ORL1 receptors lowers Dopamine.

So it should be obvious as to why low doses of Buprenorphine is best. I have been on Buprenorphine for over 4 years, and thinking of getting off it, so reading this thread was really helpful! So thanks everyone, especially James Brown.

I have been prescribed 4mg most of the time, but try to take only 2mg a day, every second or third day, to get better energy from it.

nor-Buprenorphine does not normally cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier, so it should not give you much, if any, euphoria. But it does hit opiate receptors in the body, depressing breathing and increasing constipation, and other effects.

I also believe some people are born with low opiate receptors, or low natural endorphins, so these people are much more likely to get addicted to opiates or other drugs (alcohol, etc). Plenty of people try opiates, either curious, or get injured so they are prescribed them. Your brain chemistry then determines if you get addicted or not. Just my opinion (and a lot of addiction scientists)

 

[curlygurl1980]

well just a little upate to everyone thats been keeping up with my posts things r going really reaLLy well . My husband is being much more understanding about my decision to go to the methadone clinic and he is trying to learn more and be more understanding about addiction. i am so releived and so happy that he is finally coming around. Methadone has been a much better choice for me bc i can actually sleep on it as i couldnt the suboxone. it feels so good to not have to wake up every morning and search for a stupid pill. i feel fantastic and i am happier than i have ever been. thanx again to everyone for there support

 

[stray cat]

i've been following your thread, and it sounds like things are really looking up- so glad to hear it

 

[SubDude]

Hope it's for the right reasons. I can say from experience I held onto a couple of marriages long after they were done because the alternatives looked worse.... At the end of the day, you do the math on the positives vs negatives and hope you made the right calculation.

 

[curlygurl1980]

^^^^^ i am absolutley positive that i am making the right choice. my husband really is a wonderfull man a great provider phenominal father he just does not get the whole addiction thing. but i will say this he is trying he really is. things r really going well and i am so so gratefull for that

 

[fungusAmongus]

...

Everyone is different and everyone must find there "sweet spot", so to speak, concerning the amount of low dose suboxone to take....you want to take a small amount so that you can still have receptors available for the full agonist norbuprenorphine...but not too small so that your leaving receptors unfilled with neither bupe or norbupe.....understand?" [/I]

Thats pretty much all you need to know about how bupe causes euphoria/buzzes/etc.....everything else you learn through trial and error. Just go down to under 1 mg and find the exact amount of suboxone that gives you pleasure/energy/etc without you barely feeling anything at all(or withdrawing).

first, thanks so much for your informative and direct post, loaded with FACTS not heresay and the like...so i have one more question to ask...

what is the best way, using the method you described in this post to reach the "Sweet spot" (SS), to go from the SS to being Bupe-free??? im beginning a bupe program next week from a 5 dose a day H habit to being totally drug free, and the one thing that has me more then a little concerned is how little i hear about the kicking bupe and how sick do you get when you totally stop?

is it dependent upon how low your Bupe dosages are at the end? does it depend upon how long you've loaded the receptors with norbuprenorphine? what is your opinion about how to make that final step from being " under 1 mg and find the exact amount of suboxone that gives you pleasure/energy/etc without you barely feeling anything at all(or withdrawing)" and STOPPING THE SHIT FOR GOOD??

truly looking forward to you response...this is a life and death situation for me and im a highly interested party.

regards,
- mark

PS. after reading this thread i;ve realized im dangerously close to hijacking it, but ironically enough curlygurl1980 my WIFE is in the exact same position your husband was in, and im facing the same consequences as you were with quitting, and have a incredible, wonderful spouse who has endured enough drug-drama from me to choke a mastodon, yet is still hanging on (by a thread this time, but better then nothing) ... also, could you share your experiences since your last post and how are things going with your recovery??

PSS. after reading this thread again FROM THE REAL BEGINNING NOT...i see that Dr Brown has already giving his "prescription" on how to stop...in fact many of you have chimed in with "recipes" for kicking bupe, so never mind...thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread its perhaps the single best resource on the web for learning about this sort of thing...