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Naturally occurring dissociative compounds?

Nexus298 said:
Has anyone tried Psychotridine or Hodgkinsine? Hodgkinsine reportedly has mu agonism as well as NMDA antagonism. Hodgkinsine is basically 3 eseroline's stuck together minus the hydroxy group (which can make or break an opiate). Eseroline is said to be a "fairly potent" opiate. I was thinking of importing some Psychotria colorata but I'd like to here trip reports on it first.
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I am highly interested in these compounds.
 
Survived Abortion said:
That's the point: there may be some plant/fungi whatever somewhere which synthesizes arylcyclohexylamines because it serves them some purpose.
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That's not really a useful way to go about inquiry, though. I mean lots of stuff could be true, but you're just on a wild goose chase unless you look at the evidence to guide you to your conclusions. At the moment, I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests arylcyclohexylamines occur spontaneously in nature; if I were presented with convincing evidence to the contrary, I would readily change my opinion.
 
TheAppleCore said:
Not necessarily. Often, certain traits can become widespread in a species, simply because the genes that are responsible for the trait, and the genes responsible for another more adaptive trait, share a similar location on the same chromosome in the species' DNA, and so the two traits are carried from parent to offspring hand-in-hand. In other words, a useless trait "tags along" with a useful trait by close association in genetic code.
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I see. Thanks for the clarification :)
 
Well I wasn't saying that we should all go out on a mad hunt for ethnobotanicals to see if any of them contain arylcyclohexylamines. I was merely speculating.

Also, I don't really think it's that far-fetched of a speculation. The fact that ketamine has such a profound effect on the human brain suggests to me there must be something similar in nature. Most synthetic drugs are based off of compounds found in plants. And some have even been discovered in plants after their initial design in the laboratory, such as DMT.

But I think the point here is that there are other NMDA antagonist compounds in nature which may have similar effetcs, which are not arylcyclohexylamines.

Never Knows Best said:
If by dissociative you mean NMDA antagonist, then no, we haven't found one or else you'd be aware of it already.
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Huperzine-A is an NMDA antagonist, and it is found in plants.
 
Sometimes I wonder, when people say "man-made synthetic chemicals", and people are like "they aren't natural, they aren't found in the wild, maaan."

What if we just haven't found them yet, there's so many combinations out there. Like it's possible 25i-NBOMe is out there, right? Or am I wrong?
 
jaurk said:
Sometimes I wonder, when people say "man-made synthetic chemicals", and people are like "they aren't natural, they aren't found in the wild, maaan."

What if we just haven't found them yet, there's so many combinations out there. Like it's possible 25i-NBOMe is out there, right? Or am I wrong?
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Possible but extrememly improbable, borderline impossible
 
Survived Abortion said:
But I think the point here is that there are other NMDA antagonist compounds in nature which may have similar effetcs, which are not arylcyclohexylamines.

Huperzine-A is an NMDA antagonist, and it is found in plants.
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But such plants as that aren't recreationally viable dissociatives, which is what I meant when I said there aren't any. I should have made that clear in my post, my apologies.
 
if there's a worthwhile NMDA antagonist being made by a plant somewhere on this planet, then i'm gonna bet that the plant produces opiate-like molecules.

dextromethorphan isn't that far off from codeine. besides the opium poppy there are lots of plants out there that produce lesser opiates or opiate-like compounds. i bet there's an NMDA antagonist mixed up with one of them.
 
jaurk said:
Sometimes I wonder, when people say "man-made synthetic chemicals", and people are like "they aren't natural, they aren't found in the wild, maaan."

What if we just haven't found them yet, there's so many combinations out there. Like it's possible 25i-NBOMe is out there, right? Or am I wrong?
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I'm a synthetic chemist, am I not natural? Plants are chemists too, what's the difference between finding a chemical in their lab versus in mine?
 
Roger&Me said:
I'm a synthetic chemist, am I not natural? Plants are chemists too, what's the difference between finding a chemical in their lab versus in mine?
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"synthetic vs. organic" or whatever is imo a false dichotomy... at best its a spectrum with no clear line between the two sides...

man made things are synthetic supposedly... but what about birds nests? beaver dams? i guess no real chemical alteration happens in those two examples.... but what about bee hives? bees are pretty proficient chemists.

thenightwatch said:
if there's a worthwhile NMDA antagonist being made by a plant somewhere on this planet, then i'm gonna bet that the plant produces opiate-like molecules.

dextromethorphan isn't that far off from codeine. besides the opium poppy there are lots of plants out there that produce lesser opiates or opiate-like compounds. i bet there's an NMDA antagonist mixed up with one of them.
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further thought... this possible plant that i'm dreaming up would likely produce opiod-like analgesia at doses lower than the doses that would produce dissociative like effects, producing some imaginable difficulties in discovering any potential NMDA antagonist properties...
 
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