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National Database for OTC Products

C

Charles Bronson

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
193
Location
South East Queensland, Australia.
Check your sauces (sp) people...

Gillard just passed a bill that states that every prescription/otc product bought containing codeine/dihydrocodeine/oxycodone/cocaine/basically every S8 drugs will be put down in a national fucking database that allows real-time tracking of all OTC products being bought at pharmacies, like pseudoephedrine...

Game over man, game over. Nanny state wins, looks like we're all going to be squares who get up at 5-6 a.m. each day, go for runs/drive our cars to the gym, come home, have breakfast, going to work from 9-5 p.m., coming home, getting ridiculously wasted offa beer and beating the shit out of our wives, ya know, living that safe life in the suburbs...:\

Looks like all my occasional dabblers in OTC codeine products, have been fucked, because of a new implementation by the government which doesn't allow one to simply give the pharmacist his/her name, but rather prove one's identity.

Game over man, game over...:/
 
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Source? Since when did Cocaine have any medicinal value? If you think this will happen then think again, the pharmacy industry would loose billions of dollar because of this. They already lost heaps due to the pseudo but OTC pain killers are used way more, and so what if it did happen? Some people need ongoing pain management and they cannot interfere with that database or not.
 
Sources please? I live in the same city, and a friend of mine's experience on Friday night would show that this is not the case.

ETA: Also, why would this not be in the news? Quick google searching turned up nothing, and given the noise over changing the scheduling for codeine I'm sure this sort of move would at least draw some attention...
 
Yeah but @Sustanon,
Wouldn't you feel like a junk fiend, knowing that you have bought multiple packets of whatever in whatever pharmacy, and then decide one day to visit a pharmacy that's new to you, only to be told be to fucked off by some chem punk-bitch who thinks he is doing 'us good' rather than making a few pretty polly on the side?, all this taken in to account that your prior history with OTC products have been monitored.

As was stated, 'mate' of mine went in to a pharmacy asked for a 200 ml bottle of Rikodeine, was told that he'd been having up to 3 bottles of Rikodeine per month, stated it was bullshit, bought it and left, word got through to me through the usual routes and what does a FOAF point out in today's Sunday Newspaper (Queensland)...Fucking Thousand Year Reich!
 
Database crackdown on pill abuse

DRUG addicts and prescription pill abusers purchasing "hillbilly heroin" and other highly addictive drugs from pharmacies will be tracked electronically for the first time.

In a crackdown on the booming black market for legal painkillers, the Gillard Government will track every prescription for these so-called "drugs of dependence" lodged with pharmacists in a new national database.

Health Minister Tanya Plibersek will announce today the $5 million national electronic records system will track every prescription of addictive drugs in real time. It will include scripts for cocaine, pethidine, morphine, methadone and oxycodone, commonly called hillbilly heroin.

The crackdown on prescription drug abuse follows evidence drug addicts are doctor shopping for multiple scripts, stealing scripts pads from doctors and forging prescriptions for drugs including codeine, oxycodone and morphine.

The information gathered through the national database will be available to doctors, pharmacists and state and territory health authorities across Australia.

"While controlled drugs such as oxycodone, morphine and codeine play an important clinical role in managing pain, abuse of these drugs can cause enormous harm and is a growing problem in the community," Ms Plibersek said.

"The new records system will be able to flag patients in real time who have repeatedly sought controlled drugs, helping to prevent people from inappropriately using the drugs or selling them."
Click to expand...

It looks like it's for controlled drugs only, not OTC drugs. There may be room for pharmacies to take their own initiative and track OTC codeine sales, as these programs are basically websites that pharmacies enter information into.

Also, Tasmania has had this for a while now. That was where the trial took place, and I believe months ago when the trial was on I posted something about it on here.

ETA: Also, if this has been turned on already I doubt that your friend would have been caught through it unless they took the time and effort to retroactively add codeine and dihydrocodeine OTC sales to the system, which I highly doubt. More likely he was just not careful with his pharmacy shopping. I can confirm that in Brisbane at least, not every pharmacy is requiring ID for OTC codeine sales.
 
Its concerning but Im not worried yet. Im waiting until I see concrete evidence of this being implemented across the board. Also, given the worst-case scenario, wouldnt be from "xyz date" in the future? Like months to a year away like it was with the new codeine laws a year or so ago?

The administrative load this will place on pharmacists sales bimbos for codeine products alone would be gargantuan.

Regarding your friend having his details recorded... are you sure it wasnt just a particular pharmacist's discretion? certain pharmacists are fuckwits and have the right to record details of customers buying codeine if they wish. Ive gad my details recorded at a little neighbourhood chemist in my town before. I freaked out for a couple of days thinking it was all over but turns out it was just this pharmacist. he was new to this chemist and Im guessing it was a prime location for codeine shoppers and he just got sick of it. I remember buying some panadeine and then literally a month later buying panadeine or something again and the look of resignation on his face was just too much. Not to mention he said that if i wanted to buy panadeine again from that chemist Id have to supply a prescription. Then maybe a couple weeks later I bought some pan+ and all of a sudden he was recording details.... I guess he just couldnt take it any more lol.
 
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^ Most pharmacists are probably against further restricting codeine sales as well, given that the majority of their business is usually for these products, or people come in for them and then hopefully purchase other items.

I don't know if they have to have a certain date, as I don't even think this is legislated; rather, the government has put money towards creating this program and now it is ready for national use. Legislating to require it for prescriptions and sales would mean a certain date to start being concerned, but a lot of pharmacies may start using it for prescriptions without the need for legislation. The community pharmacy sector in Australia tends to co-operate with the federal government quite a bit as part of letting them largely be autonomous in how they regulate their industry with the five year community pharmacy agreements.
 
I thought all prescriptions were recorded regardless? ie. an integrated database?
 
^ Not nationally. Each state has a Drugs of Dependence Unit (DDU, at least that's what we call it in QLD). This unit monitors S8 drugs (in some states S4 benzodiazepine scripts, S4 codeine and also have a pseudoephedrine task force). Each S8 script the pharmacy gets they have to record all the details of and do a 'dispense and cancel', basically making a copy of the script, cancelling it so that neither script can be re-used and then sending the copy along with patient details to the DDU. If the patient has already filled a different script for that drug that day, it won't be caught on to by the pharmacy. Even if the pharmacy calls up the DDU, unless the doctor had to phone in for a health department approval they won't catch on either until all the pharmacies send in their S8 scripts which happens once a month, at the same time that Medicare scripts are claimed if I recall correctly.

Now though it will be like pseudoephedrine, with real time monitoring. It is very simple to do, like with pseudo it will just be a web based program where the customer's details and prescription is entered into and the program will then show the pharmacist (and I assume, the DDU) any other relevant scripts that have been put in. I'm surprised it cost them $5 million dollars to do this, as the infrastructure is already in place with Project Stop.
 
So let me get this straight, who decides that you have reached the limit? 30 pills, taking 6 a day will last 5 days. How many people are there that need ongoing pain management who arnt able to get anything stronger from the doctor? Its the users decision if the consequences are worth it not anyone else's. What makes me angry is the government limiting us to what we can and cant do. U can imagine how much money the manufacturing companies along with the pharmacies are going to loose with this being put into place. It ruined the pseudoephedrine market completely. Makes me so fuking angry, fukn idiot government work on regulating tobacco and alcohol first. Wonder why they dont want to do that? Its all about the money nothing else, do you think they care if more and more people die from those 2 LEGAL drugs? Nope. So why start worrying about these sort of things first when there are obviously more important things to worry about?

Just watched a really good documentary on the war on drugs, now I really understand it all. Instead of that they could have made war on poverty. Spending that much to fight it when it could be decriminalized and spending that money to help the poor so they wouldnt have to resort to prostitution, robbery, violence etc etc. They are just doing it for the sake of it when there could be other better ways of dealing with things. Sigh* All citizens are so tightly controlled, need to wake up and step up otherwise soon we will need to get permission to take a breath of air!!
 
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Some pharmacies take down details for their own store (and I guess it's possible they could do it for an entire franchise), that's probably what your friend ran into with rikodeine.

I was asked for my name and address a few times buying codeine, but funnily enough they never asked for ID to confirm it so I could just BS them anyway, though I never bothered.
 
^ In QLD they all take down details, lately it's been more popular to require ID at some places but many will still just get you to write down name and address.
 
The suburb i live in has 4 pharmacies, 3 of them take details and require ID and record them internaly, all three of those pharmacies have told me they will not sell me anymore products with codeiene without a doctors letter, the 4th pharmacy which is also the most expensive automatially grab a pack of codeiene contained tablets off the counter soon as i walk in the door and are incredibly pleasant

For me the harder it is to get codeine the better, those who think their lives will be turned uside down by no access to codeine have a far better and longer lasting alternative. poppyseed tea, its safer, about the same price , lasts longer, gets you higher and no grocer will ask you to prove your idendity
 
i love the way some australians refer to the prime minister and compare her to a nazi. doesn't require any evidence, just hop on the bandwagon and off we go. angry mobs are really trendy amongst the retiree set at the moment, but i gotta say it's not my scene.
i can't say i'm surprised, really - the more personal attacks i see directed at the PM, the more i respect her (dubious politics notwithstanding). maybe if you don't remember the howard years...?

footscrazy made mention of (what seemed to be a victorian) scheme that appeared to be a larger database, but i'm not aware that we've had any updates or further information on that. i think mr blonde may have mentioned this recently?
i'm very curious to know more about what happened there, i'm not sure if there was an update at any point?

it's easy to forget that OTC drugs can be refused on the discretion of the pharmacist.
if you repeatedly buy drugs containing codeine or other drugs of potential abuse, i'm sure it becomes rather obvious. the few times i experimented with rikodeine, it was much harder to obtain than a packet of 'strong pain relief' pills, and more obviously bought to be abused (unless you have a heavy cold - quite easy to tell, hard to fake). people buy painkillers all the time for all kinds of reasons, but being refused sale for rikodeine doesn't seem unusual to me at all - it always took more talking and craftiness to obtain a bottle than it did to get some pain pills.
some pharmacy staff might bullshit you about what they know, others may refuse to give a reason, and others may oblige and sell it to you. believe it or not, "some chem punk-bitch" may consider they have a responsibility to their employer/reputation/community etc not to sell drugs of abuse to kids who don't seem to be sick. not an ethical debate i'd want to get into, but i can empathise with people that actually give a shit about their jobs and various responsibilities.

as for a national database on s8 drugs - i don't think this is the end of the world.
sure, for some users who depend on black market painkillers, there might be a decrease in availability but i'm not really surprised the government would want to regulate schedule 8 prescriptions more, especially because of the impact of oxycontin on the american drug market. as oxycodone is gradually becoming more common in australia, it makes sense to me that there would be more attention paid to prescriptions. the federal government has been aware of the abuse of oxycodone in australia for years now, it has only been a matter of time before a digital monitoring system was set up to help the flow of information. since when did federal government bureaucracies work effectively anyway?

if you think the federal labor government has bad drug policies, you should compare them to the liberals!

yes - we live in a nanny state, but this is hardly helped by people that abuse drugs and the medical system with no concern for the publicity and other consequences of their actions.

if you doctor-shop, you are helping create the situation that makes it so hard for people (such as chronic pain patients) to get the medicines they need. most addicts couldn't care less, but this kind of government attention doesn't just appear because the prime minister wants to curtail your freedom - it is a response to a very real practice in the community. i'm greatly opposed to drug prohibition and the so-called war on drugs, but this is a pretty fundamental part of what the federal government is responsible for.
maybe if all of the people that try to play the system for drugs or money are stopped, more legitimate patients will have access to the medicine they need? that is the purpose of these sorts of things.
to me, the bigger issue is people who need medicine being refused it because all pain patients become guilty by association with doctor shoppers. if the situation is better monitored, perhaps this stigma will be lessened?

legislating to try and decrease prescription drugs being abused or diverted is actually a job of governments, no matter how you look at it - especially when we are talking about things that are subsidised on the PBS.
sure, i would like to be able to get my hands on more s8 pharmaceuticals, but i'm a drug addict and it is probably better for me and society if these things are restricted to folks who need them.
 
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if you doctor-shop, you are helping create the situation that makes it so hard for people (such as chronic pain patients) to get the medicines they need. most addicts couldn't care less, but this kind of government attention doesn't just appear because the prime minister wants to curtail your freedom - it is a response to a very real practice in the community. i'm greatly opposed to drug prohibition and the so-called war on drugs, but this is a pretty fundamental part of what the federal government is responsible for.
maybe if all of the people that try to play the system for drugs or money are stopped, more legitimate patients will have access to the medicine they need? that is the purpose of these sorts of things.
to me, the bigger issue is people who need medicine being refused it because all pain patients become guilty by association with doctor shoppers. if the situation is better monitored, perhaps this stigma will be lessened?
Click to expand...

That's great in theory, but I think in practice you're being a little over optimistic.
 
^yeah - i agree.
i guess what i am trying to point out, in my usual round-about way, is that people don't tend to take any personal responsibility for their actions.
basically, what we have here is a thread calling the government fascists ("SS Gestapo-in-Command of the Third Reich, heir Fuhrer Gillard...") for apparently starting a monitoring system for prescription drugs.

now, i'm all for political radicalism and people standing up to the status quo, questioning and so fourth but what is actually proposed (or being implemented?) here is not exactly extremist denials of fundamental rights. standing up for what you believe in is fantastic, but you need to get your facts straight if you expect to get anywhere.
in all the histrionics, i think what the OP is failing to realise is that the plan seems to just involve prescription medication, as the info mr blonde has found would indicate. and not just prescription medication, but controlled drugs - schedule 8.

tighter controls, tighter regulation - from what i understand, only really a problem if you depend on diverted drugs to maintain a habit, or something of that nature. it always was a crime to doctor shop, and it was always a crime to sell your medication to (fellow?) drug users.
i'm not necessarily saying i agree with the plan - because i don't necessarily care - and i don't know a hell of a lot about it. so long as people who need strong painkilling drugs get what they need, i don't see anyone being unfairly maligned here.

without explaining a little bit of the reasoning behind such a scheme being set up, it's a bit hard to get through to people who come across as distrustful of all government.
you know - simply explaining why they are doing this, and some of the flow-on effects.
if i were talking to some middle class suburban parent types, you could explain it and they would think "getting drugs off the streets" was a good end in itself. for them, that would be a good justification.

for bluelight users, however, we don't usually accept that propaganda unquestioningly, so i was trying to frame it in a reasonable outcome that people might understand. most people here wouldn't particularly want less drugs on the street, but there are other things to take into account that we might be able to relate to.

i think that doctor shoppers are a big part of the reason for uncaring the way chronic pain patients can be treated (when denied medication).
without putting the blame on them entirely, i think it is fair to say that maybe if doctor shopping was less prevalent, less of a perceived "issue", patients needing pain relief might be treated with a bit more compassion.

you're absolutely right that this is overly optimistic! :)

in a way, i was trying to use that as an example - i suppose i'm weighing that up against the naivety of saying that all government controls on pharmaceuticals are fascistic.
sometimes they are - but sometimes they are the result of a real, a perceived or a potential problem. personally, i don't really care too much about people abusing drugs (prescription or not) but when the government is responsible for monitoring drugs - and especially - for subsidising them on the PBS - but i do understand why such measures are made.
just because i like drugs doesn't mean i can't understand the government's position on controlled pharmaceutical drugs!

i don't know enough about this issue to say that no honest patients will be adversely affected - but i don't think plans that stop people from abusing the medical system in order to obtain drugs are necessarily people i should feel a great deal of sympathy for.
i empathise much more with people who can't get the pain relief they need, which is why i mentioned them as an example.

but you're right - like many large-scale government initiatives, it probably won't have all of the desired outcomes.
 
Mr Blonde said:
^ In QLD they all take down details, lately it's been more popular to require ID at some places but many will still just get you to write down name and address.
Click to expand...

Not all, holiday destinations and tourist hot spots are less likely to check identification ime.
It's been a month or so since I've been on the Gold Coast but I was up the Sunshine Coast this weekend.
Generally, if I'm buying any codeine products there it's easy to play the interstate card and youve been at the beach all day and just came past the chemist on the way back to your apartment. I've never actually had to say this, but I've noticed it's assumed.
On the few times I have been asked for my details and not identification, I have simply been asked to write down my name and address without producing any photo I.D
Comes in handy if you are buying bulk :)
 
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