Opioids Naltrexone induced WD's from only 3 days continuous use. Possible??

[neurotichaosis]

So the last few months I have been maintaining successfully a semi-regular opioid habit that seems to be working out for me. I use generally 2-3 nights a week, and experience no dramas on the days without, often going 5 days between dosing and no dramas whatsoever. More often than not it's OC, 160-240 mgs a night varying between snorted, rectal, IV or a combination of them over a night. Yes I know they sound like high doses, but I've been referred to by very tolerant friends as being a freak of nature dosage wise without tolerance.

I took last thursday and friday OC in typical amounts, then around midnight on sat I IV'd 100mg of morphine. Prior to this I had gone 5 days clean, with the last dose being 6mg bupe IV with no noticeable effects. I was fine all week. Anyway back to the morph...
Stupidly I had drunken a few big glasses of wine prior to dosing waiting to score and around 1am felt my breathing a bit laboured so before retiring I figured it was probably a safe idea to take 25mg of naltrexone since there was nobody else awake in my house to keep an eye on me in case respiratory depression got the better of me. Most likely would have been okay, but considering the alcohol I'd rather be safe and ruin my buzz than my partner to find me blue by morning.

The rest of the night involved waking up in the midst of horrible panic attacks, followed by excruciating gut pains and then fevered dreams all night and morning. This reminded me of how WD's started past detox although not as severe as when I maintained a daily habit for 6 months. The rest of the day I had the runs, weakness, cramps, tearing, runny nose and generally feeling like ratshit. Stayed all day in bed and managed to stomach some miso soup and few bits of sushi by end of night. Somewhat better today than yesterday, but still feel unwell and definitely not fully recovered as I took 45mg of dexamph over the past 6 hours and can barely move around the house.

So if anybody has any ideas whether this reaction to naltrexone is even possible if multiple days between using has not been an issue for months please throw in your two cents.
Could it be possible than because of the higher doses I take, that I have developed a mild tolerance that doesn't bother me between days of not using and ingestion of naltrexone made it all come crashing down on me???

 

[neurotichaosis]

P.S. please do not let the thread be taken over by comments about the dangers of shooting pills. Nothing goes in without a prefilter followed by a 0.2micron filter, and I follow strict hygiene practices.

 

[Crashing]

Here's your problem -

I had gone 5 days clean, with the last dose being 6mg bupe IV with no noticeable effects

Why would you shoot bupe when you are trying to put days between dosing? This basically negates the effects of not doing any opiates for the next few days because it stays in the system for so long, even if you can't tell. That's probably why you have a physical dependence. Also, i don't understand the ROA combinations, because in simplest terms, all you're doing is wasting product because you're already comfortable with the needle. Sounds like the habit is starting to shift from semi regular to more regular.

 

[neurotichaosis]

I shot bupe because I had never done it before and it was on offer. Thought I might get a free buzz. It was also 5 days prior to my 3 day use in question.

Comfortable with the needle doesn't mean a romance affair... also doesn't mean I prefer to use that way. I don't always have enough of the right equipment to do things safely, and I'm too lazy to go to exchanges weekly so I am happy to use other ways majority of the time. I'd also not like to end up like friends without any usable veins and give em a decent time to heal.

The different ROAs more has to do with taking a dose that will have a longer duration than IV initially and topping up over the night with some 40mg lines.

Trust me I've gone from regular, detoxed and took a month off, and now maintaining this usage for 6 months.
I'm not slipping down into heavier usage because I can't afford to do it. Everything has been consistent for a while.

I can guarantee that the bupe didn't last for 5 days, and I can guarantee that without the naltrexone I would not have had any problems WD wise from being abstinent until this coming weekend, which is still the plan despite feeling under the weather.

I'm not looking for a critique of my lifestyle. I just want to know if the naltrexone can really have such an effect when I don't experience problems with not using for such periods of time.

 

[Crashing]

Being a heavier user of all sorts of opiates with all ROAs for years i can pretty safely speculate that the Bupe had a significant impact on your "use for 3 days so i wont get withdrawals" schedule.

Regardless of it though, i rather overlooked that you used to use regularly. This has a significant impact on the amount of dosages in a row that you can do. Having been a regular user in the past will greatly shorten the length of time your body needs to become physically dependent with consecutive dosing days.

Don't use bupe, though, that will really fuck up your plan to use semi regularly a lot quicker than you think. IVing 6 mg and feeling nothing isnt exactly a sign of semi regular use.

 

[neurotichaosis]

Okay thank you for that advice.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Regardless of it though, i rather overlooked that you used to use regularly. This has a significant impact on the amount of dosages in a row that you can do. Having been a regular user in the past will greatly shorten the length of time your body needs to become physically dependent with consecutive dosing days.

Don't use bupe, though, that will really fuck up your plan to use semi regularly a lot quicker than you think. IVing 6 mg and feeling nothing isnt exactly a sign of semi regular use.

^This. Just because you have done this pattern of usage for a while without noticeable withdrawals in between doesn't mean you can keep doing it without getting physically dependent. Think back to when you first became physically dependent on opioids - if you are like me it started with not using every day and eventually you just realized you weren't able to go the few days in between without using anymore. That happens far more quickly and easily once you've already been dependent in the past. Using long-acting opioids like buprenorphine, as mentioned, will negate part of the break you take anyway, as bupe stays in your system for a long time (and therefore it could have been covering your withdrawals during that time or contributing to building dependence). You may have been slowly building a mild physical dependence that just became a lot more noticeable when you took the naltrexone. Also having the opioids abruptly ripped from your receptors could have basically reminded your brain to go into withdrawal mode, since it is familiar with withdrawals from the past, if that makes sense.

 

[neurotichaosis]

Thank you swimmingdancer. That last thing you mentioned re: naltrexone makes a lot of sense. I could have been developing a mild tolerance which wasn't really noticeable and the abrupt shock of the naltrexone must have shocked my system a bit.

Though I have to say that even if I had gone 2 months I wouldn't have felt anything from the bupe at that dose. I went 3 weeks with nothing early december whilst on holiday, and re-dosing upon returning saw virtually no change in dose required. I didn't even see pupil constriction 40mg of OC... took another 40mg for constriction.
I am confident that I'm just one of those people who is wired differently so to speak.

I mention this because I have no doubt that the higher doses required for me to feel effects would increase the shock I experienced from the naltrexone ingestion.

Thanks for the advice people. Hope it serves others in knowing that these things can happen even whilst avoiding daily use.