N.J. murder leads to proposed ban on 'bath salts'

Yeah but it's up to the person to know that a drug is addictive and not fall into the habit.. I've done plenty of addictive drugs, even got addicted (physically and mentally) to these drugs. It's 100% my fault. Not the drugs. I knew they were / are adictive and continued along the path of use knowing the risk of addiction.. I had / have the ability to stop whenever I choose too. The drug doesn't MAKE me take it. It's my choice. It's up to the user to know the risks and possible outcomes of their decision.. making them FULLY responsible for whatever happens.

And no if someone was unknowingly dosed with datura it would not be his / her fault as they didn't know about it? I don't see what that has to do with anything..
 
indicameds said:
Its not the chems. Stop blaming shit on a substance that has no morals or no remorse and be a fuckin human and take responsibility for what you do. Im tired of every one saying all this shit is because of bath salts. I hate em, dont get me wrong. But I hate the marketing behind them and the fact that they cut a known substance with other shit and dont label it.

This guy was obviously fucked up already in the head. Im sure there were warning signs but I bet every one had there attention focused on his addiction problems instead of his aggression. I mean The trigger on a gun doesnt pull itself. Addiction only makes underlying problems come to light easier.

But with all that said, Im sorry for the family of the girl and all the people who was close with her.

Bath salt in general are disgusting for the fact that your using shit that could have talc in it, sugars dies and all types of shit. But that makes it no different than bath tub annie dope cooked in the woods by some red neck that is just as easy to buy. The thing that makes this so tragic is that there are plenty of sources for Pure R/Cs and yet people are still choosing to shoot unknown bullshit. Well Im just rambling now. Ill stop so I dont offend anyone or the family of the female as it is a sad and tragic event that should of never happened.
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Smartest thing i have heard ll day...or week =D
 
And no if someone was unknowingly dosed with datura it would not be his / her fault as they didn't know about it? I don't see what that has to do with anything..
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Just to point out you're essentially saying 'the substance doesn't make anyone do anything, unless you're dosed unknowingly then it's entirely not your fault'. I just have the impression you are using two different measures here, as a way to defend recreational drug use as harmless - since you lay full responsibility with the person taking the drug.

Interesting to hear a former addict say he had the option to stop whenever he chose to... Must be about a gazillion addicts out there that don't agree with you, but that's not the discussion here so nevermind.
 
Interesting to hear a former addict say he had the option to stop whenever he chose to... Must be about a gazillion addicts out there that don't agree with you, but that's not the discussion here so nevermind.
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I quit a few times, any addict that claims the drugs make them do it is looking for a scapegoat. The heroin fairy doesn't sneak into your room at night and shove a needle in your arm.
 
Mora Fiend said:
I quit a few times, any addict that claims the drugs make them do it is looking for a scapegoat. The heroin fairy doesn't sneak into your room at night and shove a needle in your arm.
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Well, with some drugs while they're physically present (e.g. stimulants) it's almost accurate to say "the drugs make me do it" due to how more-ish/fiendish they are. But in between runs or uses, the drugs don't make you buy more drugs, that's for certain.
 
Mora Fiend said:
I quit a few times, any addict that claims the drugs make them do it is looking for a scapegoat. The heroin fairy doesn't sneak into your room at night and shove a needle in your arm.
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True. But stating that you can simply stop and 'that's it' is not really credible either.

Anyway. I'm getting the impression my opinion is misunderstood, or perhaps that some of you are deliberately twisting my words. If I say drugs are partly to blame, I do not mean the ones using them have no responsibility for their actions. If I say an addict does not simply have the option to stop taking drugs, I do not mean some kind of fairy is sticking needles in his arm.
 
^ I could agree with that, addiction does make you do things you would of otherwise never thought of doing, but at the same time it's up to you as the user to not get addicted, that means being responsible with the substances you are using. At the same time I know as well as anyone how hard that can be and just how easily it sneaks up on you. So yeah I can see 3rd's point, there is no single place to put the blame here, it's a combination of several factors that caused this tragedy.
 
3rd_I_blind said:
Just to point out you're essentially saying 'the substance doesn't make anyone do anything, unless you're dosed unknowingly then it's entirely not your fault'. I just have the impression you are using two different measures here, as a way to defend recreational drug use as harmless - since you lay full responsibility with the person taking the drug.

Interesting to hear a former addict say he had the option to stop whenever he chose to... Must be about a gazillion addicts out there that don't agree with you, but that's not the discussion here so nevermind.
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No, im saying that if a person knowingly takes a drug they are fully responsible for anything that follows. If a person took so many GABAergics they wake up in some random town with no memory of why or how.. they shouldn't have taken so many GABAergics. If someone takes so much speed they don't eat or sleep and end up going psychotic.. they shouldn't have taken so much speed / not slept, etc.. If someone drinks so much they puke, they shouldn't have drunk so much..

If someone unknowingly ingests a drug which causes some negative reponse then a) it's the person who poisoned thems faults or b) it's an accident and no1 (and nothing) is to blame.. accident.

In what way am i saying that recreational drug use is completely harmless? I've said many times that it's up to the user to know the possible harms and judge accordingly.

As for the addicts that "can't stop". How did they get to being addicted? Did the drug jump into their brains? Or did the user decide to keep using knowing of the possible consequences?

Drugs may alter the decision making process of a user, but the user still decides. Before ingesting any drug, the user decided to take the drug.. Did the drug make them take that first dose? Or did the user decide to take it? What possible outcome could come from taking an addictive drug? The urge to redose. What possible outcome could come from redosing? Addiction? Well..
 
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It's like blaming rape on the victim for wearing a short skirt.. blaming murder on the victim for being a bit of a prick..
 
rickolasnice said:
It's like blaming rape on the victim for wearing a short skirt.. blaming murder on the victim for being a bit of a prick..
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Come on man, this is total bullshit. Fucking pathetic attempt to make it all 'emotional' by comparing it with rape, and comparing me with someone that would blame a rape-victim. It's a fact use of drugs and addiction to drugs can make you do stupid/sick/selfish shit you normally wouldn't even think you were able to do. The analogy you are using is absolutely retarded in this case.

But please go ahead and keep on proclaiming use of MDPV has not even the least bit of influence in the tragic murder that has happened. You are of course aware that if you repeat your opinion until infinity, you automatically are right. Good job mate! :|
 
its a home product not intended to get ppl high

i would love to meet THE SUCK A DUCK that came up with getting high off bath salts...

how fucking bored do you have to be.......... SERIOUSLY ..
 
3rd_I_blind said:
Come on man, this is total bullshit. Fucking pathetic attempt to make it all 'emotional' by comparing it with rape, and comparing me with someone that would blame a rape-victim. It's a fact use of drugs and addiction to drugs can make you do stupid/sick/selfish shit you normally wouldn't even think you were able to do. The analogy you are using is absolutely retarded in this case.

But please go ahead and keep on proclaiming use of MDPV has not even the least bit of influence in the tragic murder that has happened. You are of course aware that if you repeat your opinion until infinity, you automatically are right. Good job mate! :|
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Way to ignore my main post and focus on my exaggerated metaphor..

Of course use of MDPV had some influence but in no way was it to blame. I've taken mephedrone and other such "fiendy, selfish" drugs but have never robbed or stabbed anyone. If drugs caused people to act in a certain way then why isn't every user acting in this way?
 
Monkeybizness said:
its a home product not intended to get ppl high

i would love to meet THE SUCK A DUCK that came up with getting high off bath salts...

how fucking bored do you have to be.......... SERIOUSLY ..
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Are you retarded? They're not really bath salts.. it's a way of getting around the law. They are drugs just like any other.
 
Going with the notion "the drugs are to blame", we may aswell lock up anyone with a psychological disorder before they all kill us.
 
Rickolasnice, I do take full responsibility for what I do when I am on drugs, I have been doing them for over 10 years and I have enough knowledge now to understand how to use drugs responsibly.
 
^ It's cool, I know how ya meant it and you're right. If you take something you should know what it's going to do to you, you should do your research and know what to expect.
 
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