N.J. murder leads to proposed ban on 'bath salts'

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AunShui

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She was in my high school graduating class. You can find info on this anywhere online (lots of sensationalist news coverage :\ ) but basically her bipolar boyfriend with a bath salt habit murdered her, presumably while high.

I can't believe how obvious this pattern is, yet how oblivious everyone is to it - people will always want to get high, and making new drugs illegal will only spur the development and marketing of new, even less tested drugs. There's no law that can stop this process, and there's no way of changing it without a major overhaul of the world's drug policy. Now we're throwing the book at bath salts (specifically 4-mmc and mdpv), and I'll bet it'll be less than a year until the next big thing is behind the gas station counter.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, feel free to move it if you have to.
 
Hi AunShui,

I've found a link to the newstory and I can move this to the Drugs in The Media Forum for you as it doesn't seem to be covered yet. If you were close to the girl yourself and want some support and someone to talk to then feel free to post about yourself in The Dark Side as well.
 
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/state/nj-murder-leads-to-proposed-ban-on-bath-salts

Deputy Speaker John McKeon (D-Essex) and Assemblywoman Linda Stender (D-Union) plan to introduce a bill soon, after a Rutgers University senior was allegedly killed by her long-time boyfriend – a Cranford man whose mother says her mentally ill son was using “bath salts” in recent months.
...
The legislation McKeon and Stender say they will introduce would criminalize both possession and sale of any products containing substances that include mephedrone or methylenedioxpyrovalerone, commonly known as MDPV.

According to Daily Mail Online, Parisio was diagnosed with bipolar disorder on his 19th birthday and has been admitted to several drug rehabilitation programs. Mrs. Parisio spoke of her son's terrible paranoia that people were out to get him and his use of bath salts.

According to everythingaddiction.com, Louisiana had more than 160 poison control cases – and at least three deaths – linked to the chemicals in bath salts, in January Florida enacted a ban on MDPV, a ruling that stands for 90 days. North Dakota instituted a ban in February 2010, and Huntington, West Virginia outlawed MDPV and mephedrone last December.
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Ask the people IV'ing bath salts right here on BL and then saying how they panicked... :\
 
Its not the chems. Stop blaming shit on a substance that has no morals or no remorse and be a fuckin human and take responsibility for what you do. Im tired of every one saying all this shit is because of bath salts. I hate em, dont get me wrong. But I hate the marketing behind them and the fact that they cut a known substance with other shit and dont label it.

This guy was obviously fucked up already in the head. Im sure there were warning signs but I bet every one had there attention focused on his addiction problems instead of his aggression. I mean The trigger on a gun doesnt pull itself. Addiction only makes underlying problems come to light easier.

But with all that said, Im sorry for the family of the girl and all the people who was close with her.

Bath salt in general are disgusting for the fact that your using shit that could have talc in it, sugars dies and all types of shit. But that makes it no different than bath tub annie dope cooked in the woods by some red neck that is just as easy to buy. The thing that makes this so tragic is that there are plenty of sources for Pure R/Cs and yet people are still choosing to shoot unknown bullshit. Well Im just rambling now. Ill stop so I dont offend anyone or the family of the female as it is a sad and tragic event that should of never happened.
 
Damn this is really sad to hear and i feel for her family and friends but people need to start taking more responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to place the blame elsewhere, not saying the bathsalts didnt fuel his idiotic rage but damn thats fuckin sad :(
 
He was diagnosed with bi-polar and by the admission of his own mother was paranoid, it doesn't sound like the drugs are the primary cause of what went on here.
 
Excuse me, but how are the drugs not to blame here!? There is a difference between blaming the drugs or laying total responsibility with the drugs.

Dopamine agonists are known to decrease behavioral inhibition, increase agressive behavior and exacerbate both psychosis and bipolar mania. So how on earth can anyone claim those drugs have not contributed a fair share in this tragedy!?

The analogy with the gun and the trigger is really out of place; guns might not kill people without someone pulling the trigger, but if you don't carry around a gun in the first place you simply rule out the possibility of killing someone. Same goes for drugs; there is always the possibilty you do something stupid when high, so not taking drugs is the only way to be absolutely sure you won't do something stupid when on them. Edit: After re-reading I noticed the gun and trigger part was used differently, but I'll just leave this in my post anyway. :)
 
^ You are 100% correct, not doing something is the only way to make sure you won't do something stupid while you're doing something. So, let's go down a list of what else releases dopamine in everyday life?

1. Food
2. Video Games
3. Love
4. Chocolate
5. Exercise

So, as long as you don't do anything ever, you won't have to worry about doing something stupid without it being your own fault.
 
Mora - the point isn't to not do anything ever, the point is to do things that are probably not going to hurt you. The problem is stupidity, like snorting white powders you buy from the gas station.

I think the real problem is that, rather then spending money on things like research and education, we put our funds into the criminal justice system, which is proven to not work. You can say drugs aren't to blame, but do you really think this kid had any idea that mephedrone is metabolized into a potent, potentially heart-stopping anaesthetic, or that it causes a cascading catecholamine release? We hardly even know how these drugs work, which is why there are people running around getting hurt.

Here's a letter I felt I had to send to one of the representatives making noise about mephedrone:

Congresswoman-

My name is x, and I'm a 22 year old college student from x, New Jersey. Though I understand that you do not represent my district, I felt the need to comment on a recent statement you gave ABC news regarding proposed legislation aimed at the recreational substance Bath Salts.

The recent murder of 22 year old Pamela Schmidt is a tragedy. I feel particularly qualified to say this because we were in the same high school graduating class. I understand that mental disease also played a role, but there is little doubt in my mind that the bath salts are at least partially to blame.

Bath salts arose as a replacement to drugs like cocaine and ecstasy. Time has shown that as old drugs are made illegal, so will new ones be made available. The process is simple - add a carbon here, remove a nitrogen there - and generate a new substance with effects designed to mimic those of the old one. There are at least two problems with this process; the first is that there is no trial period or scientific regimen studying the safe use of these new drugs, and the second is that inventing new, legal recreational drugs is an extremely lucrative profession. This is a never ending spiral that will without a doubt continue after bath salts are made illegal.

The only way to prevent a tragedy like this from happening again is to revolutionize the type of legislation that is designed to control it.

I understand the war on drugs sets precedent for what can be done at a time like this. I don't disagree that bath salts should be made illegal - they are scientifically proven to be dangerous, a point being constantly reenforced by new research. If the war on drugs has taught us one thing, it is that it's impossible to prevent people from wanting to get high. The only thing that can truly discourage drug usage is education, based not off of fear but of scientific fact.

I beg that you do not use Pam's memory as an excuse to pass legislation that will only exacerbate an existing problem. Please consider funding education programs and scientific research instead of prosecuting bath salts as just another drug. By all means remove them from store shelves, but don't let them become another sensationalized news story; it is the mysticism about drugs that makes them so enticing to so many, and it is this very mysticism that can be combated with knowledge, which is provably more effective than prison sentences.

Thank you for your time.
 
I think that is a well written letter and I hope that it all works out for you.

My problem with this is simple, there are many people who use these chemicals and enjoy them responsibly, same as alcohol. My question is this:

Would these drugs even exist if the mainstream drugs were legal, or are these people who are being harmed by them another casualty of unrealistic legislation and uneducated abuse?
 
Mora Fiend said:
^ You are 100% correct, not doing something is the only way to make sure you won't do something stupid while you're doing something. So, let's go down a list of what else releases dopamine in everyday life?

1. Food
2. Video Games
3. Love
4. Chocolate
5. Exercise

So, as long as you don't do anything ever, you won't have to worry about doing something stupid without it being your own fault.
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You are aware that there is huge a difference between intrinsic dopamine release because of eating a banana and snorting multiple mgs of MDPV, and your example thus makes absolutely no sense? Always those retarded comparisons people come up with if you point out established facts about the bad things drugs might cause. :\ 'OMG, drinking 8 L of water can kill you too'

It is a fact dopamine agonists (and NOT simple intrinsic dopamine release) make people more agressive, worsen psychosis and a lot of other shit that might cause users to do random stupid things or get into a fight. It is also a fact that bipolar people are more prone to substance abuse, so either way it is not a simple 'the drugs are to blame' nor 'the drugs are absolutely not to blame'. It is all connected on a higher level, but the bottom line is some guy killed his girlfriend which might have been prevented if he had not used MDPV or if he wasn't bipolar.
 
Not to mention, MDPV isn't a dopamine agonist/releaser, it's a reuptake inhibitor (for whatever that's worth).
 
Dedbeet said:
Not to mention, MDPV isn't a dopamine agonist/releaser, it's a reuptake inhibitor (for whatever that's worth).
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Do you have a good reference for this? I am not questioning your statement here, but there seems to be absolutely no scientific research published regarding the pharmacodynamics of MDPV.

That aside, it does not really matter in the current discussion. Simply put, dopamine agonists, releasers and reuptake inhibitors will all generally have the same kind of adverse effects when abused.
 
^ Still, all of this intelligent smokescreen doesn't take away from the fact that a LOT of people use drugs, we don't all go out and kill people. There's people who murder others without ever touching a drug in their lives, the drugs aren't to blame, it's the human condition, so people are predisposed to kill.
 
The drug did not make this emotionally unstable man take it, nor did it make him carry on into forming a habit.

You can't blame drugs for peoples actions. They didn't tell him to do anything. It's up to people to use responsibly.. It's like saying a car is what causes a dangerous driver to kill somebody.
 
rickolasnice said:
The drug did not make this emotionally unstable man take it, nor did it make him carry on into forming a habit.
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Ever heard of addiction or depency? Especially dopaminergic drugs are prone to be addictive, so in a way such a drug does cause you to form a habit and 'make him take it'. It is probably a kind of vicious circle; bipolar disorder is associated with a higher incidence of substance abuse, while the substance (in this case) will worsen the symptoms, causing more substance abuse... So just as much as it is bullshit to claim he is innocent because 'the drugs did it', it is also bullshit to disregard drug use as a factor. It is called 'drug-induced psychosis' for a reason (I'm not claiming this specific case was a drug-induced psychosis, but the discussion whether drugs are to blame should not be limited to this case).

You can't blame drugs for peoples actions. They didn't tell him to do anything. It's up to people to use responsibly.. It's like saying a car is what causes a dangerous driver to kill somebody.
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Why can't you blame drugs? The car IS partly to blame if a dangerous driver kills somebody; if there would have been no car then he couldn't have killed anyone. It's not to say the driver can't be blamed for his actions, but your reasoning is just faulty. You should all stop viewing this whole thing in such a black-and-white fashion. It is never 100% the drug's fault, or 100% the bipolar disorder. It is a combination of all of it.

If your reasoning would hold true, someone that was unknowingly drugged with (for instance) datura and got into a fight where he seriously injured someone should be held fully responsible!?
 
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