My story.. heroin, benzos.. struggling..

[AlphaOdure]

My story.. struggling from 30mg-40mg/day etizolam

Hi, i'm "returning" to these forums from a long time off...

I'm a recovering heroin addict; w/ a recent relapse in September of this year. But prior to that was clean off of dope (but on subutex 4mg/day) since '07. Thing is,from '08 till August i've been on some sort of GABAergic (well, until Nov 1.. i was put on ativan from Oct thru Nov 1st to wean off). I was on carisoprodol (40 pills a DAY! 8) ) from online pharmacies, when that became scheduled; I started using butalbital, a barbiturate- again 40 pills a day.. then moved to etizolam when i found the cheapest vendor out there.. was at about 30-40mg/day (intro dose is 0.25-0.5mg).

So basically my GABA-a receptors are fucked. But in August i was hospitalized w/ seizures & unknown catatonia.. the doctors think it was all from a bad reaction to 5-meo-DALT, but, uhh, i was hospitalized for 3 weeks & almost died (and i have little memory of the whole ordeal.. probably b/c of the catatonia & the sedation).. but i think a lot of it had to do w/ being on the etizolam previously. They're submitting my case to the American journal of Neurology b/c of how rare these seizures were.. While there they put me on ativan & discharged me at 6mg/day, did a slow taper to nothing from Oct 6-Nov 1.

But w/ all that.. i still find myself wanting.. needing desperately GABAerigcs.. etizolam especially. I also have considered baclofen for its anti-addictive properties, phenibut helps but its barely noticeable--slight mood lift but other than that just placebo, even at 5g. The thing is the baclofen would also be acquired from online pharmacies since doctors are hesitant to just prescribe this as an antiaddictve; unless anyone has any suggestions? I am just depressed, anxious as hell.. help!!! i can't even go to a doctors appointment w/o trembling & getting embarrassing tremors.. I've been on nearly every antidepressant & it seems I pretty much have medication resistant depression; i am diagnosed bipolar btw & am on abilify, pristiq, & depakote.

 

[phactor]

I moved back and forth between opiates and benzos/booze/phenibut quite a lot. I am sure you know how serious the addiction to these substances are. My advice is to go to the doctor. I know you want to do it yourself, but realize this could be your life at risk.

 

[AlphaOdure]

I have.. & she overruled my neurologist & tapered me off ativan. I do realize how dangerous GABAergics are; particularly my previous doses of etizolam at 30-40mg/day, which is absurd. But my doctor wont even give me gabapentin for fuck's sake.

As far as the phenibut goes I take it once every 3 days. I know that baclofen had helped me in the past w/ cravings (i could take less of buprenorphine, too), and even though its a GABA-b agonist; it did help marginally w/ GABA-a positive allosteric modulator cravings. I just have zero coping skills. I have such horrible anxiety from abusing GABAergics (carisoprodol, then barbiturates, then etizolam since '08 )--tremor, nausea & depersonalization in social situations--that it becomes a vicious cycle & i avoid meetings, doing things, getting out, etc.

When will this end? I just tapered off benzos on November 1st after abusing them for 6 years (again tolerance was 30-40mg etizolam/day; 60-80x the threshold dose for anxiety)--i've heard 6 months to many years.. i would rather go through cold turkey heroin withdrawal this shit is so horrible, even w/ a taper; the PAWS is just a bitch.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey AO

Really sorry you are struggling. I'm going to throw a few things out here with absolutely no judgment and of cousre just address anything you want or feal comfortable with.

I would leave all the chemicals alone until you are able to heal, except those prescribed. I would seriously consider leaving all the "research" chemicals alone for good.

I was once a huge proponent of synergization of different substances to dictate experience and to reach and explore combinations of setting and altered perception.

Knowing what i know now about about how interrelated and entwined the brain is to its components and to the very workings of the body and having experienced the deregulation due to this and other factors, I would have foregone synergism almost completely.

Im very glad you made it through the catatonia.

If you are in a very heightened state of anxiety then please just skip this until your rolling more smooth. Its really just exploring a shot in the dark cause of the catatonia and is nothing to bother or fret about now.

NSFW:

Does your family lineage include any schizophrenia? If it does there is a very rare condition called Catatonic Schizophrenia. If this is a real possibility then I would refrain from all substances that have been linked to early onset of schizophrenia.


I do not mean to alarm you, but a year and a half of so back we had a thread in TDS were a man posted just a couple posts. The back ground was that his girl friend had a clear family history of schizophrenia. They were together and had taken research psychedelic, I can not remeber which one at this time, but she lapsed into catatonia with no movement for something around four hours if I remeber. She decided that drugs were not something she could continue and gave them up successfully for group of months. She then decided to try and trip again. Her boyfriend unfortunately started the thread and posted the history as within ten minutes of taking the first dose she again slipped into the catatonic state and had not moved in almost two days. They were apparently out in a very remote cabin. He was advised to seek immediate help and we never heard anything after that.

What happened to you is very rare. I would seriously consider hanging up the spurs on space travel.

The benzo withdrawal is rough.. I have done it a few times. Your six days in and I would guess you will feal much better in ten days or less. Are you actually craving the benzos or desiring relief from the fucking greatly heightened anxiety and other symptoms? Just hang in there and realize your going to make it through this. If you feal your tapper was not adequate and has left you in danger then please seek appropriate medical help asap. if your all good then you are a long way in and there is no sense going back just to plod through what you have already done.

Here is a link to the ashton manual in case you have not gandered at it or want to peak at it again.

Benzo Information

BENZODIAZEPINES: HOW THEY WORK AND HOW TO WITHDRAW (aka The Ashton Manual)
Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Since you are trembling I would say fuck it who cares what these people I will never see again think and consider seeking medical help. They are there to help and see good people like yourself in very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous conditions all the time. They're all perfect idiots like the rest of us on this planet.

have you tried lamictal for the anxiety and BP (2?)

I hope you find the peace your looking for and hope you keep posting for support. Hang in there.

Hope any of this helps.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Thanks neversickanymore,

I wasn't aware of catatonic schizophrenia; interesting. While its hard to think i'll never trip again, I think its probably for the best. It is just very unusual for this to be an underlying mental illness b/c I have tripped extensively, particularly w/ research chemicals. However, its definitely reasonable to stay away from less proven psychedelics for good..i guess just for today I must stay away from psychedelics 8)

And its a little of both--i'm craving benzodiazepines mainly b/c i know how alleviating they can be for anxiety (although alleviating them w/ say a strong anxiolytic would help, gabapentin or something--I have been on every class of antidepressant for this & nothing seems to help the anxiety or bipolar & depression). But also I crave benzos b/c I'm just fucking bored. I see my neurologist in a week.. we'll see if he decides to reintroduce the ativan.

I hope you're right & i go back to some sort of normalcy in 10 days or a week or so.

 

[straightrazor]

I get where you are coming from, I have been struggling with a polydrug addiction for over 15 years but my main problem has always been high dose benzo abuse. I dosed them by the handful for years on end and have suffered about every withdrawal symptom in the book including grand mal seizures on five different occasions (that's only the ones I'm aware of and had to be hospitalized for.. I have literally years of "blackout time" I can't account for). I've been diagnosed with numerous things over the years but pretty much every doctor can agree I'm bipolar. I have a couple months of clean time at the moment

First thing is first, you need to get off all the GABA drugs. While an argument can be made that some people need to stay on a GABA drug for the rest of their life this is definitely not the case for the type of person who takes 40 pills a day of whatever GABAergic they can get hold of. There are people who can take a couple milligrams of a benzo a night for years on end without updosing with no problems, this is obviously not me or you. Can you really blame a doctor for not wanting to even script you gabapentin? It has potential for abuse and you have shown that you will abuse pretty much any downer you can get your hands on.

You mention finding yourself wanting and needing GABAergics, especially etizolam... well no shit! You are a GABA junky and GABA drugs are what make you feel better. You have been using GABAergics for so long that your body needs to learn to function without them again. Going back to these pills isn't going to help anything, as I have already pointed out even if you can find a doctor to write you a script for some kind of a benzo you are an extremely poor candidate for long term use, you have shown you just can't handle it. Neither can I.

Tremors are part of GABA withdrawal. So are depression and anxiety. Speaking of anxiety mine tends to also present as agoraphobia during benzo withdrawal and before starting benzos I was extremely outgoing. As shitty as these symptoms can be you need to go ahead and tough through it. There is no way to get back on pills and somehow avoid this withdrawal, you have been using GABA drugs for so many years it is only going to get worse every time you go back on (google the kindling effect)

GABA withdrawal can last a long time but that is no excuse not to go through it. Everyone is different, if you have never tried to withdrawal before you may be one of the lucky ones who is healed relatively quickly. Every time you take another GABAergic you are just making it that much harder to get off.

My advice,

focus on a healthy diet. if you are anything like me you have been neglecting your health for years.
try cutting sugar/caffeine to help the anxiety
exercise if you can but start small with walking. dont try to do anything really exerting as it can rev up symptoms. listen to your body.
meditate. if you think meditation is some woo-woo nonsense, it is not. there is all sorts of scientific literature on the benefits of mindfulness.
find a psychologist who does CBT
Quit doing psychedelics, at least for the near future. Your anxiety level is going to be high in withdrawal and you will probably have a bad time.

Lastly but arguably the most important, come to terms with the fact there is no pill to fix your GABA issues. There is no GABA maintenance drug and the longer you try to fix your anxiety issues with GABA drugs you are just digging yourself a deeper hole. When you are going through withdrawal and feeling terrible it is easy to convince yourself you NEED these drugs but these withdrawal symptoms do go away given time but not over night.

It really isn't realistic to eat GABA drugs to maintain every day for 6 years and expect to feel normal again in a week. It doesn't work that way. Your body needs time for your GABA system to reach some sort of homeostasis again. You would be better off to realize right now this is going to be a struggle and if you somehow convince your neurologist to write you for more ativan you are simply prolonging the inevitable. Reading your post I get the vibe that you aren't "done" with the idea of using benzos therapeutically, if you go into withdrawal with the idea that a pill can fix all your problems you are almost certain to cave into the symptoms at some point and have to start all over again. I've ridden the rollercoaster way to many times...

Good luck.

 

[motiv311]

I've struggled with polydrug addiction, i've been "diagnosed" bi-polar but thats bull --- I merely had self-induced hypomania via dosing myself with all sorts of substances. (ahh you got to love BL drug-snobbery! : ) anyways, I would take it easy for now, and consider getting off some of those psych meds if you can bear it---- those don't mix well; in fact , drugs don't mix well with the truly bi-polar

 

[AlphaOdure]

Straightrazor-

Well as of writing this post yesterday I wasn't entirely dead set on staying off GABAergics b/c I actually had it planned to order some etizolam, but I decided against it. I know that just for today I don't have to use any GABAergic (aside from my Rx'd depakote/valproic acid). Although I've been on phenibut for the last two weeks once every 1-3 days, I am currently tapering off that to avoid any discomfort.

I can say that I woke this morning pretty well refreshed for once, and I feel slightly better. I usually feel like I'm bored w/ everything/have no interest in anything, along w/ no energy--as downers made me more motivated, energized if that makes sense. I also slept the best I have since I began tapering off of 6mg lorazepam--i actually slept about as good as I used to on 30-40mg/day of etizolam or on 40 carisoprodol or butalbital's a day.

I've struggled with polydrug addiction, i've been "diagnosed" bi-polar but thats bull --- I merely had self-induced hypomania via dosing myself with all sorts of substances. (ahh you got to love BL drug-snobbery! : ) anyways, I would take it easy for now, and consider getting off some of those psych meds if you can bear it---- those don't mix well; in fact , drugs don't mix well with the truly bi-polar

Well, i find that valproic acid (depakote) is helpful in mediating some nighttime w/d symptoms, as it acts to regulate GABA-levels. Other than that I'm also on abilify and pristiq. I had a psychotic episode when they originally had me w/d from benzos, 48 hours after dropping me from 6mg to 2mg/day I awoke after a 3-4 hours nap suddenly, couldn't move, was trembling & physically shaking, was rocking back and forth, couldn't talk or think, was drooling, eyes were dilated, extremely agitated, & was having an unending panic attack.

I had also dosed phenibut about 4 hours prior to this happening, but I don't see how that would cause such a agitated response.. unless it combined w/the acute w/d syndrome quite negatively. Anyway, I don't want to repeat this so i will stick on the antidepressants/antipsychotics i'm currently on.