My seven principles of psychonautics

[Flickering]

Psychelics are a significant part of the reason I would now consider myself agnostic rather than atheist, not because of any entity contact or visions or whatever but precisely because 'its just a substance tweaking chemicals in your brain' which has helped me realise how subjective (as humans generally and as individuals) our view of the world is and how little we do or can really "know".

Mm, to be more specific, I'm atheist / agnostic. Agnostic for precisely the reason you said, and atheist because by default, I don't believe in an afterlife or in God. I've written essays about our limited perspective on the universe, some were quite strange, I even had one friend ask me if I was tripping when I wrote it, long before I was considering taking drugs.

As for mdma I used to think that it was just a party drug with very limited potential for valuable insights etc. but when I was in the US recently (I live in Australia also) I had by far the cleanest and strongest pill I've ever had and I had a very valuable experience (in a Las Vegas hotel room of all places) so I think there is huge potential there and I wish I could experiment further (damn Australia's mdma drought).

Sweet. Can I ask how you managed to get a pure pill or was it just luck? I suppose it doesn't matter at this stage, but I might be visiting the U.S. around the end of this year.

Finally, if you can get DMT easily then I am very jealous.

Yeah I'm lucky enough to have two or three sources and if I wanted some, I could probably have it by the end of the week. The guys I'm shrooming with are particularly enthusiastic about it. At the moment though, it's up the ladder, too intense for a newbie. I'd offer you some but there's a rule against that on Bluelight, and chances are you live many hours away.

Oh and san pedro - are you sure that's still legal to buy here? I thought it was banned even as an ornament. But if not I definitely need to find some, as you say now, before it disappears.

You know, someone once said that there is absolutely no evidence to support the belief that life is serious. There's nothing wrong with tripping for the sole aim of fun (I am now of the general position that psychs are for fun, and insight is a just a bonus/form of fun). Trying to find insight never really worked well for me, I just let it happen if it happens. Also, taking your psychs too seriously can very easily lead you down a path of delusion (which many of us have gone down at some point or another, for varying lengths of time). I know you said you realize it's just chemicals messing with your brain, but the fact you're on a quest to achieve something from them tells me you may one day lose the plot chasing some ''truth'', be mindful in avoiding that sort of thing.

I will. I guess that's a danger too.

It so happens that despite how austere I'm probably coming across, I have three sacred golden rules of life:

1. Never take life seriously.
2. Make sure your enjoyment of life doesn’t infringe upon others’ enjoyment.
3. Always remember that nothing is sacred.

So you know, when you say the insights are a bonus fun, in a way that's actually the point. Atheist, agnostic or whatever, I'm also a nihilist, so I don't believe anything has an ultimate purpose and what I choose to do with my life is enjoy it. But there's enjoying it as in eating cake and having sex five times a day, and there's enjoying it as in diving deep into the puzzles, self, reality, mind, etc. I'm having a lot of fun, it's just more of a... philosophical fun, I suppose? than a recreational fun. Which has always meant more to me. I have a distinct passionate purpose, and the thought of fulfilling it is way more exciting than the thought of getting high for any other reason. Basically it's something I have to do, but it's about the only thing in the world I actually want to do, which is why I take it seriously. I don't WANT to find a stable job because it's boring, hence I don't take it seriously. But I sure want to solve this puzzle, hence I give it my all. These principles are there to make sure I do.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you learn from DXM? I love dissociatives, but I view them as the ultimate tools for escapism/hedonism, they may have taught me a thing or two, but what I learned was possibly delusion, and maybe even a danger to me. Also, what plateau do you usually aim for/find the most valuable?

I've only just started, haven't gone higher than second plateau yet. What I've gained from it so far is, I'm more comfortable with life. I guess the severe dissociation brings my body to the place where my mind is usually at, and in a strange way helps me cope with being so spaced out all the time. I've also felt more confident. In the second plateau, I'm able to turn my surroundings into a very personal and safe space, impenetrable, and that's quite a beautiful sensation. The changes are emotional, subconscious and subtle. I'm not sure what to expect from the third plateau, which will be two DXM trips away - next one 480mg, then 600mg.

Not looking forward to that vanilla cherry flavour.

usually with the help of some object, video, or song of some emotional attachment that reminds of what/when I want to recall and prompt reminiscing

Yeah, this is my plan. Sober, I'm quite receptive to sense impressions from years ago. If I see a film I haven't seen since I was five, I'll get the shadow of a memory of what it was like watching it the first time, at that age. I'm hoping some of the drugs on my list are going to expand that sense. I've heard psilocybin is very good for this exact thing. Several accounts at about 2g report going somewhere they haven't been in a long time, and they relive experiences they had there.

Why are you interested in recovering memories, if I may ask?

 

[acidclouds]

Sweet. Can I ask how you managed to get a pure pill or was it just luck? I suppose it doesn't matter at this stage, but I might be visiting the U.S. around the end of this year.

I got them off a fiends friends friend so it wasnt just off the street but yeah it was just luck. But if you check pillreports you can see that your chance of getting mdma pills is pretty good in the US compared to the crap we have here.

After I bought them I checked pillreports and found them listed as "mdma high" and they didnt dissapoint :D.

Yeah I'm lucky enough to have two or three sources and if I wanted some, I could probably have it by the end of the week. The guys I'm shrooming with are particularly enthusiastic about it. At the moment though, it's up the ladder, too intense for a newbie. I'd offer you some but there's a rule against that on Bluelight, and chances are you live many hours away.

DMT was actually the first psychedelic I tried but it was only a threshold dose. I've never broken through but I would imagine it would be better to try some less intense stuff before you do. Haha thanks but yeah I'll just have to try to find it or make it myself

Oh and san pedro - are you sure that's still legal to buy here? I thought it was banned even as an ornament. But if not I definitely need to find some, as you say now, before it disappears.

I'm pretty sure the proposed laws have not been put to parliament yet. I just bought a cutting online a few days ago actually. I've bought and planted a few cuttings since hearing about the new laws and theyre starting to grow nicely

 

[Flickering]

Thanks for the heads-up. Looking into it now.

Good luck with the DMT. Obscure drugs are a pain in the ass to find. I did manage to find salvia, but the guy who had it didn't want to share. So, know what it's like.

 

[acidclouds]

No worries. Yeah I've found DMT to be a hard one to get even in the psychedelic scene - which is ironic considering it occurs naturally in many Australian trees and can be fairly easily extracted - but as always I guess its just who you know.

I'm not all that keen to try salvia from what I've read about it but if it was legal I would give it a go. Its legal in the US (and pretty much every country on earth except Aus) so you'll be able to get some easily and legally when you're there. I plan on trying it when I'm in Europe next year

 

[any major dude]

interesting set of rules you've got there. Definitely a good idea to do a good amount of research and set some guidelines as opposed to just diving in.

In as far as suggestions go, i'd agree with MDMA having loads of therapeutic potential. At the moment the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials are flagship of the renaissance in psychedelic research. I'd also consider some 4-substituted tryptamines, as many of them have therapeutic potential in spades, and you can be more accurate in regards to dosage than you can with shrooms. I do like shrooms as well though. At the very least, worth looking into. Other simple tryptamines such as DPT & MET have psychospiritual potential as well. In regards to phenethylamines, 2c-d, 2c-e, & possibly 2c-p (if you're not averse to lengthy trips) can be quite enlightening. I personally found 2c-e to have a particular benefit in regards to problem solving.

Also, if you're specifically looking for deep introspective type trips there's some really good material available on inducing that type of experience. You should check out some of the research protocols from the MDMA for PTSD studies, Psilocybin for terminal anxiety, ibogaine for addiction etc. You may well find some useful information in there. Also, the following books have really awesome info on the more therapeutically inclined trips: The Secret Chief Revealedhttp://store.maps.org/mm5/merchant....ode=Maps&Product_Code=SCR&Category_Code=Books by Myron Stolaroff, LSD Psychotherapyhttp://store.maps.org/mm5/merchant....=Maps&Product_Code=LSDPSY&Category_Code=Books by Stanislov Grof, and there's also a good bit of interesting & relevant info in higher wisdom: eminent elders explore the continuing impact of psychedelics eds Charles Grob & Roger Walsh. I'm personally familiar with those, but there are plenty more interesting & useful titles in the MAPS bookstore :D

In regards to only using psychedelics in the setting you describe, there are certainly worse ways to go about it, but the line between recreation & therapy is a very fuzzy one.... a concert or electronic music show would probably be considered a recreational setting by most, but psychedelics have been paired with music & dance by indigenous cultures for 1000s of years, and the states one can reach combining music, dance, & psychedelics can be transcendent. However, it is an uncontrolled environment & thus an increased chance of a negative outcome as well. Likewise, i've attempted to do some serious thought work whilst blindfolded & headphoned on my couch & ended up giggling at patterns in the ceiling... Set, setting, & intent certainly do shape a trip, but sometimes these things take you to unexpected places. Additionally, what a lot of psychonauts consider fun (shattering your ego, having revelations about the nature of the universe &/or human behavior) is also quite therapeutic. And lastly, the emotional release that comes from enjoyment of a recreational activity (drug related or otherwise) is also vital to a psychologically healthy individual.

 

[DJHENRU]

edit. nm

 

[cryptix420]

cryptix, I don't believe it is ethical for you to say "take a bunch of psychedelics and you'll meet your maker" or even correlate as such with DMT or any psychedelic. Obviously OP is being proactive and introspective on their approach to the ways of altered states of consciousness, which I find quite refreshing.

Kuddos.

Well, I respect your opinion sir. However, more often than not, this is the case. I am much happier now with my current views on life and spirituality than I was before in a black hole of depressed nothingness. It's not fun thinking it's just a black void when you die. It's much nicer to think of it as 'energy'. Some of you guys know what I mean I'm sure.


Also, for all those who say MDMA is 'low on your list' or you don't wanna try it because it's 'bad for you'...I feel this is a misunderstanding. MDMA has been by FAR the most valuable therapeutic chemical I have come across in my 3 years of drug experimentation. I had a really whack childhood with an evil stepmom who fucked me up in the head in a number of ways. Namely the insecurity about myself and hatred of people.

MDMA opened me up to look deep inside myself without a single feeling of guilt or shame or wrong, and instead made me only have the deepest and most utmost love for myself and my fellow human beings. Of course some of us can get a little caught up and roll a bit too much and this is where the negative effects can start, but other than that I would say MDMA is quite a benign and worthwhile substance.

Plus, I've read all sorts of stuff on MDMA, from talking about how it damages neurons and whatnot to theories that it may actually strengthen the serotonin system, making one less vulnerable to depression and anger in the long run.

 

[treezy z]

personally i take psychedelics every damn chance i get provided set and setting are good. then again i'm a crazy dissociative freak so maybe your rules are good.

also, i feel setting rules like this is a sign of addiction.

 

[StickyChron]

I think the idea of a list of psychedelic guidelines is a very weird concept. IMO the nature of psychedelics themselves is often that of losing control and letting them do their things.

Don't get me wrong, setting time limits between trips is a good idea, but saying you're only doing them for the "spiritual insights" is like saying you absolutely only eat food because you have to in order to live. You're missing a huge component of life with this philosophy, which is enjoying as much of it as you can.

Psychedelics often "find" me it seems. The more I dwell on set and setting, and the anticipation of finding them and subsequently doing them, I find myself expecting more and gaining less. When I wake up in the morning with no plans to do psychedelics whatsoever, and I end up having an impromptu LSD trip in the woods with some friends or I just go to a wild club with my fiancee and ingest MDA/MA, its generally been the most introspective and meaningful experiences as far as personal insights go and facilitated some of the most beautiful moments of my life.

Psychedelics are amazing on so many different levels. I've had some of the best and worst times of my life while on psychedelics, but I've never regretted a single experience. Pretty cool.

 

[tixarn1]

While many of these principles gain my respect, you haven't taken a psychedelic so can't really have personally applicable knowledge of psychonauting. The ritualistic approach is a great reccommendation though!

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Why are you interested in recovering memories, if I may ask?

Well my life these days is rather pathetic, and my only real friend remaining is Jim Beam, so I like to go back to a more optmistic time in my life, regain a frame of mind when I still had good things going for me, revisit some locations in a place I used to live, go back to a few days fun with some old friends...I find that as time goes on, my sober recollections have been distilled down to a few symbolic moments, and the realities of the situation have been lost in rose colored nostalgia and my subconscious manipulating them to be in line with my current personal narrative. So I chemically enhance memory to see things more accurately, and engage in simple escapism. When you're pessimistic about the future, and don't have anything in the present, living in the past can become quite tempting, unhealthy though it may be.


Anyway, your principles seem pretty good, and definitely look forward to the third plateau, that's when things start getting interesting (720mg is my own usual DXM dose when I choose to indulge in it).

 

[TheAppleCore]

Finally, a fellow psychonaut that doesn't buy into the "fun drugs". I think we all can agree that the point of all this isn't to stimulate dopaminergic activity in our brains, so we can give ourselves chemical stroke-jobs. It's to explore the frontiers of the human imagination, to expand consciousness, to engage in self-discovery!


Maybe ecstasy can further this goal, but in all honesty, is there anything MDMA can show you that LSD or mescaline can't? If so, is it even worth the neurotoxicity?

I view ecstasy as just another distraction from the TRUE quest of a psychonaut.

I fast for twelve hours beforehand

Bad idea, IMO. Fasting is just going to drain your body of energy -- valuable energy that you'll need to propel your consciousness as far as you can into the depths of psychedelic hyperspace!

When you're pessimistic about the future, and don't have anything in the present, living in the past can become quite tempting, unhealthy though it may be.

It makes me sad to hear you say things like this. From the posts you make here on Bluelight, it seems to me that, underneath the pessimism, you're a very bright and curious soul. Don't give up on finding love for the here & now -- you are MORE than capable!

 

[acidclouds]

Maybe ecstasy can further this goal, but in all honesty, is there anything MDMA can show you that LSD or mescaline can't? If so, is it even worth the neurotoxicity?

I've never had the overwhelming empathy and love for myself, other humans and the world that I've had on mdma while on other psychedelics. Not to say that you cant but I just havent. I have had some amazing experiences involving learning about, accepting and loving myself on acid.

Its easy to get pessimistic about the state of the world and human nature sometimes and I think the mdma empathy can give an interesting and valuable counter-point to that

my only real friend remaining is Jim Beam

I'm sure you already know this but alcohol just makes me feel so much worse metally. I can really notice for the whole week if I drank on the preceding weekend.

Cutting down alcohol consumption and increasing physical exercise has really turned my mental health around for the better. A cliche I know but its so true

 

[Unelmaporsas]

I'm sure you already know this but alcohol just makes me feel so much worse metally. I can really notice for the whole week if I drank on the preceding weekend.

Cutting down alcohol consumption and increasing physical exercise has really turned my mental health around for the better. A cliche I know but its so true

I'll 2nd that. Never had real problem with alcohol, but cutting down drinking (maybe once a month nowadays, and mostly < 6 beers) helped a great deal with my anxiety and depression.

 

[acidclouds]

Interesting discussion between Terrence McKenna and Charles Hayes about mdma as a psychedelic:

TM: I've done MDMA a half-dozen times. It's not very interesting to me. I felt real good, but minus the hype, it was just amphetamine.

CH: But MDMA seems to throw open the doors of your psychological house and enable you to calmly, without panicking, examine your own neuroses.

TM: Yeah, but I think on a hundred mics of LSD the same thing would happen. Plus, MDMA has some toxicology issues that need resolving.

Charles Hayes (ed), Tripping: An anthology of true-life psychedelic adventures, p. 418.

 

[B9]

5. Approach each trip ritualistically, with clear intent. And 6. Never simply get high for fun.

Hm - I'd run away if I was tripping around you - Is there something unwholesome about "fun".

 

[waketheeffup]

These experiences are definitely going to change my view of things - I'm counting on it, in fact, that's the point. :D But there's always something to be said for being the new guy to an age-old practice. The naivety of it is exciting, and the prospect of it all feeling normal in a few years... well, as normal as drugs can feel... is alien. Still, partly I want the introductory phase out of the way already so I can have a better idea of what the hell I'm talking about.

I don't want to be rigid and bureaucratic with any of these principles, though. That kinda defeats the purpose of opening your mind. My rule #4 is there to keep on track; probably better to avoid heroin and ice if you're concerned about your health, but as for ecstasy, I see it being lots of fun but not actually helping me. Basically, a distraction, which is why I rule it out as irrelevant. As for mescaline being a stimulant, I'm flexible there because the point of it is to go on a vision quest, not to PARTY HARD! It has a reputation as being one of the more serious, shamanic drugs.

I also get a euphoric high in the aftermath of DXM. After the first time, plateau 1, I had a sense of confidence and daring. Leads me to think it might be something of a stimulant too. But yeah, the guidelines are all about intent, and that's more or less a side-effect.

My aim with the seven rules is to balance health (like you say, all drugs can be dangerous, so essentially this is about harm minimization, not elimination) and introspection. Thanks both of you too for your input. Some of the brain and substance chemistry there still goes over my head, but I'm getting the hang of it.

Throughout my relatively low amounts of usage with this drug (less than 15 in my life) I can say that 4 of the most profound discoveries I've had, both introspective and worldly, were produced during the "high" of E.

I've felt the most connected to the spiritual realm/source energy on shrooms, while MDMA yielded SO much knowledge about this physical realm (the earth/human experience and our relationships as co-creators)

In my quote I bolded a few statements that i find interesting with your viewpoints on MDMA. It has a bad rap since its called a club drug (dont get me wrong music is FUCKING AMAZING whilst rolling, and dancing feels really good too, but doesnt dancing to music while sober feel great too? Self expression, throw some MD in there and you have self expression without any fear based emotion attached to it, completely free )

Here are my lessons from MDMA:
A) Everything in this world has an element of beauty to it, and if you can connect to and find that beauty, you will learn to appreciate everything individually and find value/reason within anything (if you are willing).
B) Enjoy the small things/stop and smell the flowers. Things you "see" (but ignore) every day can often times make a world of difference in your daily experience
C) I've felt what it was like to be with my best friends on a warm night with ZERO fear, worry, anxiety - it was incredible.
D) most recently, i looked into the eyes of the one i love and saw straight through her external/physical self directly into her soul, and it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen/felt/experienced. We both saw it, and then we held each other for a long period of time and basically became one entity.
I wouldn't trade that for anything.

I thought these experiences were just because of the drugs during the come down, but have channeled and carried over these lessons to my sober "reality."

Every time i hug my lady i feel the EXACT same feeling (becoming one, 100% relaxed, amazing) and its been 5 months since that experience.

there are some things that are just drug related (lightshows are sick on MDMA for example) I can remember, but those take aways were invaluable and taught me just as much, if not more, than LSD or shrooms ever have.

I'd say try it once (get one GOOD pill, don't redose, and enjoy yourself for a night with some great friends and a good summer concert or a day/night on the beach)

 

[waketheeffup]

Hm - I'd run away if I was tripping around you - Is there something unwholesome about "fun".

yep, i always say life is 100% about joy. People who go out looking for anything else are often not co-creative to what i want to manifest for myself.

I think the idea of a list of psychedelic guidelines is a very weird concept. IMO the nature of psychedelics themselves is often that of losing control and letting them do their things.

Don't get me wrong, setting time limits between trips is a good idea, but saying you're only doing them for the "spiritual insights" is like saying you absolutely only eat food because you have to in order to live. You're missing a huge component of life with this philosophy, which is enjoying as much of it as you can.

Psychedelics often "find" me it seems. The more I dwell on set and setting, and the anticipation of finding them and subsequently doing them, I find myself expecting more and gaining less. When I wake up in the morning with no plans to do psychedelics whatsoever, and I end up having an impromptu LSD trip in the woods with some friends or I just go to a wild club with my fiancee and ingest MDA/MA, its generally been the most introspective and meaningful experiences as far as personal insights go and facilitated some of the most beautiful moments of my life.

Psychedelics are amazing on so many different levels. I've had some of the best and worst times of my life while on psychedelics, but I've never regretted a single experience. Pretty cool.

right on

(second bolded statement) this is great, i wrote something almost 100% in alignment with this statement above before reading your reply

i was going to chop up your quote but everything you said was way too relevant and right on good stuff

 

[Legerity]

also, i feel setting rules like this is a sign of addiction.

Why do you think so? I would think that constantly setting rules and breaking them could potentially be a sign that there is something to be concerned about. But pre-emptive guidelines seems to be a way of monitoring consumption and avoiding a pattern of use that exceeds one's own determined limits.

Maybe ecstasy can further this goal, but in all honesty, is there anything MDMA can show you that LSD or mescaline can't? If so, is it even worth the neurotoxicity?

I view ecstasy as just another distraction from the TRUE quest of a psychonaut.

Different substances may satisfy different needs in different people, or satisfy the same needs in different ways. If used as a tool to aid in spiritual pursuits, some may learn better from the straight forward effects of MDMA (love/acceptance) vs. more traditional psychedelics. To be honest I find most of the psychedelic effects to be perceptual noise and distracting from any potential insight that I'm seeking.

So if somebody feels that their spiritual path emphasizes becoming more loving and accepting, MDMA may be an appropriate choice of substance assuming it is well tolerated.

Is a person's path really their own if it is determined by external authorities or rules?

 

[synchrojet]

"Never get high just for fun."

Bzzzt on this one. Fun is a s good of a reason as any, if not better. Maybe amend that to "never be so selfish about my fun that it hurts others or myself"?

My two cents is all...