my one problem with psychedelics.

[Ismene]

^ Ismene, you are profoundly incorrect.

I see.

How exactly did you manage to go back in time and meet "most of the people who took acid in the 60s" before and then after they took acid in order to pronounce that they were "wankers" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) both before and after?

So can you point to any of these people who'se life it allegedly changed and what they did as a consequence? Do you think the majority of people who took acid really changed in any way?

There's certainly plenty of people like Jerry Rubin who took acid in the 60's and in the 80's became hardline corporate capitalists.

What do you make of the study by MAPS that a large majority of people who were given a strong dose of Psilocybin said it gave them a life-changing spiritual experience?

I'd say come back in 5-10 years and ask them again. Psilocybin can certainly give a life-changing spiritual experience the problem is how you adapt a "life-changing spiritual experience" into everyday life. And remember this study was done with people who were depressed and dying. The vast majority of people who drop acid don't have cancer and arn't dying - being terminally ill adds something to a trip.

Incidentally when Timothy Leary did the same thing back in the 60's he had to fake the conclusions because the recidivism rate for the psilocybin taking prisoners was the same as for any other prisoner.

 

[THE HZA]

personally, i truly believe that the pursuit of higher (<-- haha pun) knowledge should be kept above mostly everything priority wise. if one needs to be in a chemically altered state to achieve this higher learning, so be it. this isnt to say anyone should try heroin or anything extreme in hopes of gaining an introspective experience, it just means i would rather acquire a new perspective under the influence of psychedelics than the other option. the topic is extremely subjective.

 

[interleukin]

What is this higher knowledge that you are searching for and how is it going to help you lead a better life? Euphoria, feeling of oneness blah blah blah... what now? How does any of that make you a more successful or socially well adjusted person? Psychedelics do not give you a better sense of direction in life if you had none to begin with. Quite the opposite in fact. I think their main therapeutic use lies in mood stabilization, revival of suppressed memories and the short period of improved linear thinking which may help some people work through emotional problems.

Your thought process on psychedelics is different so any revelations you get on them must be taken with a grain of salt. Also this:

OP, the way you think and act is a function of the way your brain works. If you change the way your brain works you will change the way you think and act. There is no sense, however, in saying that the sober way is the ''true'' way and the drugged way is the ''false'' way. It is not so black and white.

You may find yourself thinking thoughts and having ''insights'' on psychedelics that you will later realize are totally absurd and false. However, psychedelics may also reveal to you that many thoughts and ''insights'' you have when you are sober are equally absurd and false.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

I think you're putting the psychedelic experience on a pedestal. By doing that you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I think you should go into psychedelics with an open attitude of 'hopefully this will be a fun and learning experience' and if it turns out to be more for you personally, than that's great. That way, at least, if it turns out for you to just be a fogging of your reality, you won't be disappointed.

My personal experience with psychedelics is that they don't offer some great truth. They are amazing experience. Some are amazing because they are fun and euphoric, others are amazing because they are delusional and strange, and others are interesting because they fog up my vision just enough that I can see my ceiling melting and my nitrous canister as a prosthetic arm while notice that I can't feel my head oh shit my body is ending at my neck.

Don't expect so much out of them.

I agree with this. Psychedelics have been life-changing for me for sure but I don't believe they hold the secrets to the universe or anything as some make it seem. They can be useful for introspection and can give you insight into your own worldview and existence and how best to live your life.

As far as discounting what you experience because it was caused by the ingestion of a drug I think that one should always analyze and confirm one's judgement after the trip while sober. This is part of integrating the experience along with putting forward the effort to enact the changes inspired by the trip.

 

[Ismene]

In what way have they been "life changing" delta? I know what you mean but you didn't get up the next morning, shave your head and go join a commune did you. I presume by "life-changing" you mean you live in the same house, do the same career, have the same girlfriend etc..so your life is exactly the same as it always was..but there's some kind of emotional consolation for loneliness and sadness that psychedelics provide?

I'm not knocking psychedelics at all, but this idea that they somehow teach you a new way to live your life or change who you are in some major way, I don't think that's how it works. I think they can provide consolation and hope which is enough.

 

[Ismene]

I think their main therapeutic use lies in mood stabilization, revival of suppressed memories and the short period of improved linear thinking which may help some people work through emotional problems.

Good point interleukin.

 

[Psychodelirium]

I'm not knocking psychedelics at all, but this idea that they somehow teach you a new way to live your life or change who you are in some major way, I don't think that's how it works. I think they can provide consolation and hope which is enough.

I agree with you that the trip is what you bring to it, so I don't think it's useful to generalize that psychedelics are always/never life-changing. Of course, it depends on the person taking them.

I think it is true that psychs can catalyze moments of great opportunity but it is not trivial to take advantage of them.

 

[Ismene]

Any thoughts on what the term "life-changing" actually means Psychod?

I'dve called it "life-changing" myself in the early days of using psychedelics but when I look back at my life years later I tend to think "In what way did my life "change" exactly?". Still in the same house, same career etc.

 

[DexysMidnightRuner]

i always hear people say they have had life changing experiences but i agree, your life never really changes. maybe the best way to describe it is you can get to know yourself better, realize things you didnt want to admit, or understand things better. it gives you insight, not really any ability to change anything. your brilliant realizations tend to disappear soon after the experience, but sometimes it can be good to see things "clearer"

imo it depends on what psychedelic your taking and the type of person you are. ive done acid a fairly good amount of times, and really havnt gotten much out of it. i find i actually learn more about myself on MDMA but i have come to the conclusion that i am a control freak and that might have alot to do with it. when on acid i never really trip that hard, even if i take a large dose. but i think that is because subconsciously i never really just let myself go, i find that on alot of drugs..but while on MDMA i do. it just makes me a different person.

i will say how ever you can find some truths about yourself, but they are not all AMAZING and self changing. when i had a good two weeks of acid access - its not very plentiful where im from most of the time - i had a good long look at what i was doing to myself. i could see how i was making things go - failing college, gettin deeper into drugs, etc - and that i really needed a change. i also realized i didnt wanna end up completely fucking up my life. nothing really changed after that realization, but it was a good look.

you cant necessarily go into a trip expecting anything. i went in expecting one reaction and i always get something different.

 

[Psychodelirium]

Any thoughts on what the term "life-changing" actually means Psychod?

I'dve called it "life-changing" myself in the early days of using psychedelics but when I look back at my life years later I tend to think "In what way did my life "change" exactly?". Still in the same house, same career etc.

Well, there are many accounts out there of people going through really manic, inflated, messianic experiences in the aftermath of significant psych trips. This sort of thing I would definitely consider life changing. It will alter a lot of your interpersonal relationships even if it does nothing else. (I do not think this is a bad thing, provided you come down from it eventually.)

My personal experience with psychs might have gone this way but after my first big trip I immediately sought a psychiatrist and got put on anti-depressants because I was convinced that I discovered I had an untreated mental illness. I felt so much more alive for weeks after the trip than I had been for years that I couldn't think of any other explanation. In retrospect I think the anti-depressants ended up blunting the impact of the experience, so nothing very much came of it.

By this I mean I did not immediately make major life changes. But my worldview was permanently altered, a lot of my relationships became much more positive and I began to withdraw from those that were not. I understood for the first time what is meant by "spirituality" whereas before I was rabidly cynical and materialistic and was convinced the whole thing was bullshit. I still think psychs are the only thing out there that can reliably accomplish a transformation of this sort (overnight, in my case).

My feeling is that the afterglow period is the window of opportunity that psychs catalyze and that this is when you should be making the changes that you think are appropriate. Obviously if you do nothing different you will invariably settle back into your routine and lose the clarity of vision.

 

[Quantum_truffle]

I do think it can be life-changing, but that people would be able to make the same changes to their life theirselves, it doesn't require drugs.

I myself have noticed it myself. Sometimes when I try to escape responsibilities, or postpone things I need to do, (Procrastination, oh yes!) these things violently come to the surface of my thoughts during a trip. It's like a personal reminder for me, an extra one, a kind of punishment. So mostly after I trip I do those things I was postponing. Probably I would've also done them without the tripdrugs. But anyway, it is in a way 'helping'. I'm not suggesting they are a miracle cure to repairing everything you consider wrong in your life at the moment of the trip. But they do intensify feelings and thoughts - and this might be just the spur someone needs or the insight someone needs to change their life situation.

 

[TheUncreated]

I really love everything that's been said here! Very good advice from everyone. And ich, I feel like I can relate to you very well. I am 18 as well and I recently have been trying to get a dear friend of mine into psychedelics he voices the exact same concern as you do. And how I choose to think of this quandary is that the drugs themselves do not actually teach you anything. The chemicals can lead to a state of mind and inner awareness that can teach one many things. It is the same state of mind that is reached by mystics and shaman of many cultures and religions through intense ritual and meditation. It is the state you seek, and drugs are simply one way to help us reach it. Once a person gains insight, it is the lesson that is important, and how you apply it to your life. How you get to it is irrelevant.

Happy tripping!

 

[Solipsis]

It's not putting it on a pedestal at all... perhaps in the way you fantasize it and try to imagine an emolated image that might be something like it. Still it will not be the same, you can free yourself very much of these labels that sober poeple frantically put on things because that it's the way it is supposed to be.
The best with LSD is participate in your life, let good and bad things happen anyway. But the beauty is you can get such a deep understanding why everything is connected that way, home come some thing necessarily don't feel that nice and other feel like we have to cherish them...

The tricky answer is: sometimes things not necessarily true have to experienced to learn why they're not. You have to work with it and look a great deal.
Still, all in all if your premise is pure again and again I don't find LSD fake at all.
The fakeness comes from:
- it's not entirely natural this compounds (alhough almost!!)
- people misinterpret this and bash it as artificial.
- the other fakeness comes from sensory distortion like visuals but they aren't the truth. They show you what you do to yourself to your perception!!! important.
If you are pure, the visuals will get minimal, and what remains is something real and deep that no one can take awake from you.

 

[R_DXM]

I think you're putting the psychedelic experience on a pedestal. By doing that you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I think you should go into psychedelics with an open attitude of 'hopefully this will be a fun and learning experience' and if it turns out to be more for you personally, than that's great. That way, at least, if it turns out for you to just be a fogging of your reality, you won't be disappointed.

My personal experience with psychedelics is that they don't offer some great truth. They are amazing experience. Some are amazing because they are fun and euphoric, others are amazing because they are delusional and strange, and others are interesting because they fog up my vision just enough that I can see my ceiling melting and my nitrous canister as a prosthetic arm while notice that I can't feel my head oh shit my body is ending at my neck.

Don't expect so much out of them.

Quoted for truth. I was going to respond in a similar vein, but the post I just quoted really does mention everything I was going to.

 

[helium-4]

Heres a wonderful quote from the book Island, but Aldous huxley, which relates to this topic. Moksha btw is the imaginary drug which is described pretty similarly to mushrooms.

'"Do you like music?" Dr. Robert asked.

"More than most things."

"And what, may I ask, does Mozart's G-Minor Quintet refer to? Does it refer to Allah? Or Tao? Or the second person of the Trinity? Or the Atman-Brahman?"

Will laughed. "Let's hope not."

"But that doesn't make the experience of the G-Minor Quintet any less rewarding. Well, it's the same with the kind of experience that you get with the moksha-medicine, or through prayer and fasting and spiritual exercises. Even if it doesn't refer to anything outside itself, it's still the most important thing that ever happened to you. Like music, only incomparably more so. And if you give the experience a chance, if you're prepared to go along with it, the results are incomparably more therapeutic and transforming. So maybe the whole thing does happen inside one's skull. Maybe it is private and there's no unitive knowledge of anything but one's own physiology. Who cares? The fact remains that the experience can open one's eyes and make one blessed and transform one's whole life."'

 

[Delta-9-THC]

In what way have they been "life changing" delta? I know what you mean but you didn't get up the next morning, shave your head and go join a commune did you. I presume by "life-changing" you mean you live in the same house, do the same career, have the same girlfriend etc..so your life is exactly the same as it always was..but there's some kind of emotional consolation for loneliness and sadness that psychedelics provide?

I'm not knocking psychedelics at all, but this idea that they somehow teach you a new way to live your life or change who you are in some major way, I don't think that's how it works. I think they can provide consolation and hope which is enough.

I first took LSD when I was 16. I've had many strong experiences since then that permanently affected the way that I think about the world and the things that I value in life. It was actually pretty drastic how much it changed me. As far as long lasting effects, I know for sure that they are at least partly responsible for guiding me to my two biggest interests at this moment in life (I'm 21 years old now): music and philosophy. I could probably write a small book about all the ways, big or small, that my psychedelic use has influenced my development as a human being. I'm obviously still growing as a person, as I'm still quite young, but I will always be influenced in one way or another by these trips.

I also feel that psychedelics have powerful potential to show one how to improve their life and be a happier person. It can show you what you could be doing (or not doing e.g. addiction) to be more fulfilled but it's up to you to take this and try to integrate it and realize the goals you set. This isn't always easy, and the psychedelics won't do the work for you, but they are a useful tool for breaking up the mental and emotional blockages and inner defense mechanisms that keep people from wanting to make a change in life. It's kind of like pushing a reset button on the mind that allows you to break free momentarily from the cognitive-behavioral patterns that take hold through everyday life and guide our actions, thoughts, emotions, etc.

 

[IamMe90]

Life-changing or not, psychedelics are very important for some of us.

For me, in a sense (in a very exaggerated sense), they aren't life-changing so much as they are life. I am a constantly depressed guy, and academic philosophy only strengthened that depression by illustrating in a logical way how pointless life is and how transcendence and transcendental meaning don't really exist.

Psychedelia is a way for me to escape that monotony for an extended period of time. When I drop acid or eat mushrooms, even if the experience is terrifying, it is always meaningful. I feel full of vigor and awe at the world. This escape is essential for me. Psychedelia is just one avenue of escape from monotony - love is another - but it is a major one, nonetheless.

I am not so depressed to have regular or even threatening ideations of suicide, but I am depressed enough that life becomes a chore, quite frequently. Much of my day is spent working to ensure further psychedelic experience (whether that be working, studying, etc) is sustainable in the long term, and my mind often wonders back to those times when life was meaningful again.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Life-changing or not, psychedelics are very important for some of us.

For me, in a sense (in a very exaggerated sense), they aren't life-changing so much as they are life. ....

Psychedelia is a way for me to escape that monotony for an extended period of time. When I drop acid or eat mushrooms, even if the experience is terrifying, it is always meaningful. I feel full of vigor and awe at the world. This escape is essential for me. Psychedelia is just one avenue of escape from monotony - love is another - but it is a major one, nonetheless.

Wow... you made a chill go up my spine! What great, awesome words. Exactly how I feel, except the depressed, meaningless parts. Anyway I may be in love Let me make you happy and then we'll talk meaning. :D Not being sarcastic, that was a great award-worthy post, thanks.

 

[IamMe90]

Hey, I have no hard feelings and am always up for talking to fellow (I may be a bit presumptuous for calling us this) psychonauts about psychedelia, meaning, and life in general

 

[shade404]

this is not going to be a popular response, but as someone who started experimenting with LSD when I was 17 and ended up having several kind of rough years that were more psychologically uncomfortable than they needed to, I would really advise anyone to wait until they're at least in their early 20's to start touching the heavy mind drugs. I'm not saying the OP is immature, but it's basic science that the brain continues to develop extensively into one's early 20's, and as someone about to enter their 30's, I have seen more harm than good come from people jumping into the phenyltryptamine pool earlier than later.

Just my two cents. I know this forum is full of people a lot younger than I am who may feel differently, and that's their right.

edit: to put some perspective on my bias, my LSD experiences ended up in an eight or nine month streak of intense depersonalization that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I still have the HPPD, which I tolerate quite well, but if I had been stuck in DP/DR world much longer I don't know if I would have held on.