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My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine!

^ It depends on how it was synthed; without going into details, going from phenylacetone produces racemic, whilst going from pseudoephedrine produces d-methamphetamine.

Speed here in Australia usually refers to the inferior, non-shard like product whilst ice or meth is usually used to refer to the 'shard' like crystals.

An interesting experiment would be if a BL'er could do a decent wash of some methamphetamine and use a polarimeter to try and gauge whether the product is racemic or a single enantiomer.
 
i'd say most is D-meth, but phenylacetone is just as easy to get.. phenylacetone could also explain the odd appearances of amphet sulphate.
 
Mr Blonde said:
^ It depends on how it was synthed; without going into details, going from phenylacetone produces racemic, whilst going from pseudoephedrine produces d-methamphetamine.
.
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Apologies, I forgot to include the racemic variables on these.

Essentially, my question is (and again from the more educated people on here such as yourself MrB) what would you call (and by call I mean on the chemical level) 'ice'.
 
^ On a chemical lever, with pure substances; I would call crystallized dextrorotary methylamphetamine 'ice'.

If I was a jerk I would have answered with 4-MA though. ;)
 
^ Now I'm confused ha ha.

4-MA (4-methylaminorex) was the original ice. And is different to PMA, which is para-methoxyamphetamine.

Though you probably already know this and I missed something.

You can pick up a new polarimeter on a popular auction website for around $500, plus shipping and handling. ;)
 
Really not going to go to through of purchasing a polarimeter.

Anyway, 4-Mar is 4-Methylaminorex. While 4-MA (4-methoxyamphetamine) is (still) PMA (para-Methoxyamphetamine - obviously you know this, it's more for the others :) ). Afaik just a different (less used) nomenclature.

Systematic name due to the oxygen element being on the forth position*.

:)

*I'm relatively new to chemistry so be kind if this last explanation isn't entirely correct ;)
 
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^ No you are right; since the methoxy group is directly opposite the side-chain, it is termed para-. If it were right next to the chain it would be ortho-, and if it were between those two positions it would be meta-.

With aromatic compounds, ortho-, para- and meta- are used when there are only two substituents on the ring. If there are more then that, then you use numbering. :)

Really not going to go to through of purchasing a polarimeter.
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I would love to have one of those babies, though I don't know what the hell I'd use it for. Impressing girls?
 
forgive me I was too high to read 13 pages of replies.. I too had the same sort of questions as the OP as when this nanna began with her dancing shoes there was none of this ice creamery around the streets..
So again please forgive me if this has already been covered, but I am of the believe that if you have the correct product of methamphetamine, if you snort it, be it crystal crushed and cut or pre crushed before purchase, it's just louie the fly. If how ever one put it's that in their pipe and smokes it - that action of heating and inhaling the smoke turns it into an ice cream cone.

*shrugs*

I shall attempt to read the other 10 pages later hehe
 
^ i really don't understand what you mean. using localised slang doesn't really help get your point across.
louie the fly?? :?
 
yeah i'm pretty lost too. I think she means that its speed until you smoke it out of a crack pipe - then its ice????????

The real maryjane: to save you reading 13 pages of a repetitive thread, and all sorts of confusing shit about isomers and ketones. here is a synopsis. ice and speed are all methampetamine, they differ in levels of purity though.
 
^ spot on. so many myths and untruths circulate, but the gist of this thread is that "meth", "ice" , "speed", "shard", "base" and the majority of amphetamines sold in this country are essentially the same thing. differentiating between them is often very misleading.
 
^^^yes, I was just about to post about how massive this thread is.

Interesting read.

It's my understanding that there are roughly 3 major forms of speed in Sydney metropolitan.

1. Crystal, shard, meth, ice, shabs, speed etc
Hard dry crystals of greatly varying purity.
Both local and import

2. Base, glug, speed etc
Dirty appearance, wet/oily, gluggy mix with small crystals.
Often strong chemical odour.
local only, to my knowledge.
*in the 90s, base was often cut with glucose powder. This gave it a powdered cocaine like appearance. Up to 1g of glucose powder would be mixed with roughly 80-150mg of uncut base.

3. Prescription pills
5mg dexies, 10mg ritalin etc


We know a significant amount of shard comes from south east asia from time to time. I suppose that could be anything good or bad.

We know a significant amount of shard gets made here from pseudo tablets or bulk pseudo powder.

If the glug or the shard was made from seudo in Australia, then I think it's safe to assume the cook was aiming for methyl amphetamine. The product will either be very pure D-methyl-amphetamine or varying degrees of impure product, consisting of anything used in the reaction or produced in the reaction i.e. meth, un-reacted pseudo, intermediates, unexpecteds, reagents and solvent, pill fillers, "cutters".

The variation described above, especially by the presence of; un reacted, incomplete, intermediate products and cutting agents, provides an explanation for difference in effect between batches of illegal "speed".

I have no idea about the prevalence of other precursors (other than pseudo) in Australia.
 
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It just comes down to age/demographics really. Anyone over the age of 35 probably still remembers speed as amphetamine sulfate and ice as meth. In the last 10-15 years meth has almost consumed the term "speed" and people use "ice" to describe the highly sort after pure(ish) crystal forms. Most kids I know only think of ritalin etc as the "other" kind of speed but I can assure you that racemeric amphetamine sulphate still exists in Australia.

Considering it is more prevalent in Europe than meth, and pretty much every other type of RC or MDMA is imported from there, it is pretty naive to think it dosent float around our country in significant quantities. The market here is just ignorant to it's existence and/or it's slightly differing effects so it is either sold in smaller more select markets or it is sold as something else, often used as a cutter in pills (which is a wasteful shame).
 
I am talking about the stuff that I and every one I have ever known has been most likely to have an opportunity to buy. I have lived almost right across the sydney metro and I have only every been able to find those three types I have mentioned in the past 15+ years.

I am sure some of it was or might be amph sulphate but the stuff that is most prolific seems to be those three. I am sure there is all kinds of awesome stuff available:)

When base/glug was popular you could tell all the stuff going around was an attempt at meth with varying success. A lot of it was very nice, despite also being toxic sludge. Even the clean white stuff can smell full on! I wonder if some of it has left over solvents which actually dissolve the plastic it is stored in and solutes from the plastic bag become part of gluggy base because it definitely smelt that way.

There is also a lot of different stuff being imported. I have had some very different imported pure shards I've had in the past. It was called "shabu, (~2000, inner city sydney)" but was so much more potent and longer lasting than any pure meth amp shards I've tried. Crazy stuff! I was told it was 4-mar but I've got no idea, other than to say it was very different and a single dose lasted for over 3 days.
 
Busty St Clare said:
It just comes down to age/demographics really. Anyone over the age of 35 probably still remembers speed as amphetamine sulfate and ice as meth. In the last 10-15 years meth has almost consumed the term "speed" and people use "ice" to describe the highly sort after pure(ish) crystal forms. Most kids I know only think of ritalin etc as the "other" kind of speed but I can assure you that racemeric amphetamine sulphate still exists in Australia.

Considering it is more prevalent in Europe than meth, and pretty much every other type of RC or MDMA is imported from there, it is pretty naive to think it dosent float around our country in significant quantities. The market here is just ignorant to it's existence and/or it's slightly differing effects so it is either sold in smaller more select markets or it is sold as something else, often used as a cutter in pills (which is a wasteful shame).
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Meth doesnt even exist in most parts of Europe. All there is is amphetamine sulphate which is a white putty wettish substance. It is available in AU but in very small quantities. Its quite hard to source as well and there is always more money to be made from meth. We are going around in circles with this thread, thought we covered what it is. Ice and "base" is the same thing. Its just uncleaned, unwashed/cut meth.
Theres methamphetamine, amphetamine sulphate, dexies, ritalins and similar amphetamines. I just wish people stopped calling it base as its not the correct term. Its funny how one idiot made it up and everyone follows them:S
 
Busty St Clare said:
It just comes down to age/demographics really. Anyone over the age of 35 probably still remembers speed as amphetamine sulfate and ice as meth. In the last 10-15 years meth has almost consumed the term "speed" and people use "ice" to describe the highly sort after pure(ish) crystal forms. Most kids I know only think of ritalin etc as the "other" kind of speed but I can assure you that racemeric amphetamine sulphate still exists in Australia.

Considering it is more prevalent in Europe than meth, and pretty much every other type of RC or MDMA is imported from there, it is pretty naive to think it dosent float around our country in significant quantities. The market here is just ignorant to it's existence and/or it's slightly differing effects so it is either sold in smaller more select markets or it is sold as something else, often used as a cutter in pills (which is a wasteful shame).
Click to expand...

Sorry if my first post was confusing, simply put I was trying to say that I was told (incorrectly or not) that its all the roughly the same product, but the manner in which one consumes it is what changes it.
Can any one else tell me if this is correct or not.
I'm not one for a crack pipe, and snuff will always be my way of choice.. So for that reason I could not speak whether the effects differ from snorting to smoking of a product.

again sorry - for bringing up the thread again but um I'm a newbie and I'm meant to get my post count up so feel free to forgive me for bringing up old threads - I was trying to only comment on recently active threads... *shrugs* and this one was interesting to me.
I've had ice, but only consumed by snorting it. At the time I was lead to believe it was simple speed. It didn't do anything but give me a very tense jaw lol
this was about when the crack pipe hit the scene... again not something I'm into. so that was going back about 8-9 years ago in victoria.

Is it possible that the act of heating and smoking 'meth/crystal/ice' may be what brings out its strength and that simply eating or snorting would render it less potent and nearer the strength of speed?
 
I love nothing than the fluro yellow wet paste.That gave the most awesome rush when iv'd. That is the stuff i miss about being outta the scence for a few yrs.And the fact of no sleep for a few days.
 
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