• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

Recovery My journey starts today (hydromorphone)

kickitnow said:
One fight at a time Sixx my man. Fretting about possible Kratom WDs isn't gonna help you much in your fight against the massive dragon you're slaying at this time. Focus on getting through the day. One day at a time.

amen! Unless you are increasing in dose (or finding you want to) I think it's fine. But that's me.

I was so happy to read you are doing better. I've been busy, and struggling, but reading! I'm so impressed with your determination! Jesus I still can't really process the amount that you jumped off of cause my acute wds were rough for 80 freaking mgs of Oxy.

By the way, I like Blue October an awful lot. What else are you listening to?

- VE
 
VE, nice to see you. I'm almost finished reading rains story.... What a trip, but I totally get it. I've been so up and down reading it... Emotions.... Strange feeling for me.

Yeah, I'm only 32, but I dunno if my body can handle another kick like this. Yet I'm more afraid of dealing with buried emotions then withdrawal.

Music is huge for me.. I obviously love the band sixxam, blue October, shinedown and of course glorious sons. I'll share a few songs, haver a listen when you get some time.

I'm stuck on relatable music right now, it'll pass as my emotions stablize, but for now... It's keeping need motivated.

https://youtu.be/bfJWvRls6pw

https://youtu.be/dOq2_LkR7XQ

https://youtu.be/93A30cbUGEc
 
Every time I see a detox thread, or even when assisting in a detox in-person, it seems that everyone always suggests / relies on / partakes in a variety of calming music. I wonder how a Deaf person finds solace during detox?

I'm Deaf, and I detoxed from methadone in October. My state made methadone use for pain patients verboten, and rather than do the assisted step down from 6 tabs to five and wherever they would have moved me next - my dumb ass walked out of the appointment and within a week had thrown away the meds after five years of maintenance. The withdrawal was brutal.

Methadone worked incredibly well for me. I still think it's stupid and an indicator that bureaucrats shouldn't make medical choices that they're concerns about methadone were resolved with Dilaudid HP. Like, really guys? You're legit concerned about pain patients flooding the streets with methadone tablets (your average pain patient tops out at 40-60mgs per day, if we require any more than 60 it's considered to be ineffective), and your answer is to replace the methadone with Dilaudid pills and, even more mind boggling-ly, the HP version which comes in ampules for injection? Yeah, if you are concerned about some methadone tablets hitting the street, that's the answer right there. -_-

Sorry. Super off topic, other than the fact that even with the other opioids I had available, the methadone withdrawal was hands down the most wickedly uncomfortable thing ever. I snuggled with my corgi and tried to watch movies and such, but I couldn't really focus on the captions. I should try to come up with something we could direct other Deaf people to that would be a suitable replacement for music while fulfilling the same purpose.

That is all. ?
 
Yeah... Heard the done' w/d's are about the worst. Honestly I read more than anything, It's even become problematic how much I read. I have a fascination with the great men of history and ww2, especially the Eastern front. I've been meaning to make it to the model store and buy a ju87 model to build and *attempt* to paint but haven't made it yet but that doesn't *really* count as I'm on the serious tail end of a kick and symptoms have been slight for awhile, but I meant to do that before I jumped.... Music takes on whole new levels during w/d/sobriety, I could have emotional responses to the right music numbed out as all fuck for years, sober it can be a little much honestly... But after all there is an entire world out there and music is only one thing... You had to of had something besides movies? Surely you've felt music?
 
Methadone withdrawal for me was a walk in the park, but that is because I took six months to taper from about 80mg to 10mg and then used three days of codeine to transition to a week of 2mg buprenorphine, 0.2mg clonidine, 800mg gabapentin and 10mg of diazepam 2x/day for another week.

Folks so rarely hear from people who "easily"/successfully get off methadone without relapsing, but it is not at all uncommon. This is why I make it a point to share my not at all uncommon story regarding my positive experiences getting off the stuff. Those who struggled with detoxing from it or those who relapsed shortly after detoxing from it are just so much, much more vocal about their negative experiences than than most of those who had positive ones transitions off (as they have generally moved on with their lives already!). It's really a shame when the treatment works better than any other for severe opioid use disorder :(

Jumping straight off 40 or 50mg of methadone, or even any dose of 20mg or more, without any significant comfort meds (especially when not as comprehensive as those I gather for myself) is a recipe for an absolute shit show of intense drawn out full agonist opioid acute withdrawal.

Now, if you had been able to taper more Pem, you would have been fine. But how fucked up is that, Washington state is doesn't allow methadone for chronic pain patients? It is one of the most effective meds for that purpose?! Like seriously, WTF?!?!
 
Now, if you had been able to taper more Pem, you would have been fine. But how fucked up is that, Washington state is doesn't allow methadone for chronic pain patients? It is one of the most effective meds for that purpose?! Like seriously, WTF?!?!

It was a mess! There may be some info about it in the US regional threads because there was this guy called Dr. Frank Li who truly was running a pill mill and was implicated in 18 patient deaths. It was upsetting for valid pain clinics and pain patients, because we fight that stigma all the time. But anyway, he ran something like a dozen clinics between Washington State and California, and in addition to flat out selling scripts he then decided to dip his toes into some Medicare and Medicaid fraud. Because of course he did, right? Anyway, a trained clinician could have told you that the OD deaths in his roster were caused by multidrug toxcicity, but the bureaucrats who run the state looked at morphine equivalents and said "These people were on methadone, oh noes that must have killed them!" and pulled it, even though it's still widely used at MMT clinics. Ah well. Such is life.

And I know my withdrawals would've been easier if I'd cooperated with the taper, but, ya know... I'm a bit of a control freak. I was truly afraid of doing the slow taper and then being forced to jump off eventually, and it would be out of my hands. I didn't want it to be out of my hands. I think a lot of folks who do it that way and fail... well, not to be an asshole, but they do a detox with no help or support and then when they inevitably fail, they have an excuse to go back. Of course they don't want to hear about stories where people were successful or where someone did a supported step down and called it a "walk in the park". Nah, it's a better story - not to mention a more sympathetic / understandable excuse in the case of failure - to tell about fighting THE WORST possible thing ever. You're a hero if you win and get all the kudos for even trying if you lose. Who doesn't want that? My younger sister tried to explain to me how methadone is chemical, synthetic heroin and so it's withdrawals are the very worst there is; truth be told, having assisted on several inmate detoxes, I think prolonged alcohol use causes the worst withdrawals. But that's neither here nor there - when you're going through the worst of it, whatever you are withdrawing from at a given time is by far the worst thing to withdraw from, hands down.
 
You had to of had something besides movies? Surely you've felt music?

What I ended up "having" was my dogs and some art. My corgi is my service dog, so she is never separated from me for more than a few minutes, pretty much ever. She is a great comfort to me, along with her brofur - my 16 year old German Shepherd. I love them both dearly and they keep me cuddled and distracted. Additionally, I make ceramic corgwyn, 1.25" high ones as desk/shelf trinkets for people and 1.25-1.5 cm high that I use in jewelry making. That kept me busy and distracted more than anything else.

I don't know precisely what you mean by "feeling" music. I was not always Deaf - it is a result of brain trauma that I incurred at age 26 - so I have heard music before. Shortly before my hearing loss, I purchased pretty much every scrap of everything ever recorded by Pete Yorn. That's fabulous music. I bet that would be a good one for u/Sixxam to chill to. Lose You, fucking phenomenal. Ice Age, fucking phenomenal. Relator, fucking phenomenal *and* comes from an album that's 50% Pete Yorn and 50% the beautiful and talented Scarlet Johansson (spelling?), who has a shockingly compelling voice. I am rated as "severely" Deaf as opposed to "profoundly" Deaf, so I can sometimes still listen to an intense enough song if I can find good enough headphones and just blast the Hell out of it. It really requires a lot of factors to line up perfectly, and even then when's i blast it it's like turning a speaker up to a 3-4 for a regular person. Ah well. Such is life.

Meanwhile, to your original question, many people who are rated as Deaf and who are physically and culturally Deaf - much as in the case of someone who is "blind" - still has some level of sensory use. It varies widely, and you can see that reflected in music choices. I know many "severely" or even "profoundly" Deaf people who enjoy listening to really intense, hardcore rap music, as well as some who use it as a waking alarm; they say that they can put a speaker on the floor or against a piece on furniture and turn the base up, and then can experience the music via the resulting vibrations shaking their furniture. I would presume that's what you mean by "feeling" the music? Unfortunately, that does have some limitations, especially for people who have roommates or who live in a deeply populus geographic area. It might be an option for someone who lives alone (or with other Deaf folks) and in a rural area, but it may not be for someone who has sleeping children or who lives in an apartment complex in the city. There are some definite limitations, but I still think it would be cool to come up with something.

Often, people do not think about the needs of people who are not like them, and in my experience it's strange for hearing and/or abled people to even consider differently- or dis- abled people as drug addicts in need of detox. We have very different and specific needs, and it can be frustratingly difficult to try to get those needs met. That's one of the reasons why I jumped in on this thread when I don't normally respond to detoxing threads; as a person who is dependent on opioid analgesics for the resulting pain from my crush injuries and aortic rupture, I don't necessarily think that I belong in the SL threads. However, when it was brought to my attention that there was a brain trauma survivor detoxing and reporting pseudoseizure activity, I decided to hop on over and see if I could help. ?
 
Pem, dude i didn't even know who Pete yorn was an hour ago.. Been listening since. Ice age.. Awesome! My favorites so far. I'm glad you have some solid artists locked in your head to forever remember. Through my TBI, I've experienced loss of sight ( since returned) and most sense of smell.. So I get it, brother.

I have lots to comment on but I slept about two hours broken up and am just snapping back to reality. Sleep is coming, yay!
 
Hang in there sixxam i really didnt like kratom anymore than a tool either i hated the toss and wash method and all other ways of doing it. Kratom at around 6 or 7 grams is best equivalent to 15 mgs oxy. I also found music a great tool i bought some nice Koss bluetooth headphones right before wd i read music helps build dophamine and it really helped me still does. Also as VE said earlier lyrica- (pregabapentin) was my best freind during wd it is a godsend if you can get any even its little brother nuerotin-(gabapentin) will work just need to dose higher. Also ive read lyrica is a great tool for getting off benzos, good luck keep rocking hard better days are coming! TLD
 
Last edited:
What I ended up "having" was my dogs and some art. My corgi is my service dog, so she is never separated from me for more than a few minutes, pretty much ever. She is a great comfort to me, along with her brofur - my 16 year old German Shepherd. I love them both dearly and they keep me cuddled and distracted. Additionally, I make ceramic corgwyn, 1.25" high ones as desk/shelf trinkets for people and 1.25-1.5 cm high that I use in jewelry making. That kept me busy and distracted more than anything else.

I don't know precisely what you mean by "feeling" music. I was not always Deaf - it is a result of brain trauma that I incurred at age 26 - so I have heard music before. Shortly before my hearing loss, I purchased pretty much every scrap of everything ever recorded by Pete Yorn. That's fabulous music. I bet that would be a good one for u/Sixxam to chill to. Lose You, fucking phenomenal. Ice Age, fucking phenomenal. Relator, fucking phenomenal *and* comes from an album that's 50% Pete Yorn and 50% the beautiful and talented Scarlet Johansson (spelling?), who has a shockingly compelling voice. I am rated as "severely" Deaf as opposed to "profoundly" Deaf, so I can sometimes still listen to an intense enough song if I can find good enough headphones and just blast the Hell out of it. It really requires a lot of factors to line up perfectly, and even then when's i blast it it's like turning a speaker up to a 3-4 for a regular person. Ah well. Such is life.

Meanwhile, to your original question, many people who are rated as Deaf and who are physically and culturally Deaf - much as in the case of someone who is "blind" - still has some level of sensory use. It varies widely, and you can see that reflected in music choices. I know many "severely" or even "profoundly" Deaf people who enjoy listening to really intense, hardcore rap music, as well as some who use it as a waking alarm; they say that they can put a speaker on the floor or against a piece on furniture and turn the base up, and then can experience the music via the resulting vibrations shaking their furniture. I would presume that's what you mean by "feeling" the music? Unfortunately, that does have some limitations, especially for people who have roommates or who live in a deeply populus geographic area. It might be an option for someone who lives alone (or with other Deaf folks) and in a rural area, but it may not be for someone who has sleeping children or who lives in an apartment complex in the city. There are some definite limitations, but I still think it would be cool to come up with something.

Often, people do not think about the needs of people who are not like them, and in my experience it's strange for hearing and/or abled people to even consider differently- or dis- abled people as drug addicts in need of detox. We have very different and specific needs, and it can be frustratingly difficult to try to get those needs met. That's one of the reasons why I jumped in on this thread when I don't normally respond to detoxing threads; as a person who is dependent on opioid analgesics for the resulting pain from my crush injuries and aortic rupture, I don't necessarily think that I belong in the SL threads. However, when it was brought to my attention that there was a brain trauma survivor detoxing and reporting pseudoseizure activity, I decided to hop on over and see if I could help. ��

OMFG have you ever seen It's All Gone Pete Tong? Sooooo mother fucking good. It's a sweet movie, nice and uplifting (even if the rave scene doesn't bring up any nostalgia for you, it's still quite the sweet love story). And right up your alley for some very obvious other reasons ;)
 
Still hanging guys. Absolutely exhausted but I'm in it to win it. Have not touched a benzo today and I will only take .5mg to attempt you sleep tonight. I don't wanna just jump back to .25mg after 10 days of heavy use and possible seizure activity. Advise?

I'm really to beat to chat much but I'm reading and trying to hang tough.

L&r

..sixx
 
Still hanging guys. Absolutely exhausted but I'm in it to win it. Have not touched a benzo today and I will only take .5mg to attempt you sleep tonight. I don't wanna just jump back to .25mg after 10 days of heavy use and possible seizure activity. Advise?

I'm really to beat to chat much but I'm reading and trying to hang tough.

L&r

..sixx

Were you able to make contact with a clinician you trust? Benzo withdrawal is a different beast and, though you are on a relatively low dose, you make want to check in with your neurologist - or at least your PCP - to jump off that.
 
Not yet bro, next week! I only took .05mg last night. I did sleep two solid hours. The skin crawls are letting up. I'm still taking the kratom every 4-6 hours. I'm going to continue until I get a couple nights sleep, then begin to taper.

I don't believe I will have a problem tapering off of it, I really dislike it. Not like my dilaudid..., that I couldn't taper. In fact every time I said I would my use would end up spiralling even further outta controL..

1am this evening day 12 will begin.... I wish I could say I feel better but the total lack of sleep and general feeling of just being sober is really fucking strange. I wonder if sleep will bring any kinda clarity?

I can't even fathom the thought of working right now. I own my own machine shop, and have a very rare and specific trade that very few do, so I have a lot of very high paid work that needs to be done, but I guess taking a few weeks to get my head in order isn't so bad. I feel like I have to relearn certain motor skills. My shop is so foreign sober. Will sleep give me any clarity?
 
Not yet bro, next week! I only took .05mg last night. I did sleep two solid hours. The skin crawls are letting up. I'm still taking the kratom every 4-6 hours. I'm going to continue until I get a couple nights sleep, then begin to taper.

I don't believe I will have a problem tapering off of it, I really dislike it. Not like my dilaudid..., that I couldn't taper. In fact every time I said I would my use would end up spiralling even further outta controL..

1am this evening day 12 will begin.... I wish I could say I feel better but the total lack of sleep and general feeling of just being sober is really fucking strange. I wonder if sleep will bring any kinda clarity?

I can't even fathom the thought of working right now. I own my own machine shop, and have a very rare and specific trade that very few do, so I have a lot of very high paid work that needs to be done, but I guess taking a few weeks to get my head in order isn't so bad. I feel like I have to relearn certain motor skills. My shop is so foreign sober. Will sleep give me any clarity?


Im on day 40 something and i still only get 3 hours a sleep a nite most of the time and i know what ya mean about skin crawling shit!, everyday i get it on my arms like a burning feeling too. It seems to have gotten a little better now sometimes. I think it has to do with your body catching up on all the missed sleep because ive had a couple nights where i slept 5 or 6 hours and still skin crawling next day, body needs alot more sleep to catch back up before it goes away.
 
Bro, good for you on day 40, that's huge!! Are you running fully o' natural? Or are you using any kind of sleep aid?

I guess because I'm still feeling some acute withdrawal I'm just so fucking dragged out. But at least cutting back on the benzo I'm not as dead like.

Another day... Here I come!
 
Top