My current take on psychedelics

[Ghettochrist]

Psychs are like weapons in my view.. you can kill or save lifes with a weapon.. you can really change the outcome of a scenario, but the weapon is still merely some sort of projectile mechanism that stays the same and does the same job.

 

[Roger&Me]

Buddhism isn't really a religion, more a philosophy and a means of going about it.

This is extremely off-topic, but I completely disagree. Besides that fact that 'buddhist' is an incredibly ambiguous term, as the beliefs and practices differ greatly between different sects, Buddhism in all its forms is as much a man-made socio-political institution as any other religion.

 

[swilow]

Interesting thread. I haven't read/absorbed/dissected it all yet, but I will say in response to B9's:

I suspect there are other ways to open the doors as well as psychedelics - but psychs are quicker.

Quicker and much much more fun then sitting monky like meditating. Lets not forgot how damn fun tripping is; which is, at heart, why I like it

 

[nearjat]

My psychedelic experiences have so far led me to a state of utter confusion about why society is the way it is. They've led me to a pretty good idea on what love is, not just in the romantic sense either. They helped somewhat in finding who I am, and helped me disregard that for the benefit of others. These are likely things that normally come with age and experience, maybe I just got a head start. This is mostly from LSD and MDMA, plus normal life experiences.

 

[PepperSocks]

Quicker and much much more fun then sitting monky like meditating. Lets not forgot how damn fun tripping is; which is, at heart, why I like it

Indeed. Let's not forget that. Deep down despite the higher purpose stuff we must always remember why we started and why we really do them: they're enjoyable and when it comes right down to it..fun and let's also not forget fun is a good thing. Keep it light, too much of this deep dark secrets of the universe stuff just seems to lead nowhere but non-fun/non-happy life.

This is mostly from LSD and MDMA, plus normal life experiences.

The bolded text is the more powerful force.

 

[Ghettochrist]

I like what you is saying Uniter %)

 

[*Love*Lite*]

Really good thoughts all around. I enjoyed reading this entire thread. SKL I feel you brother, wish I had read this earlier so we could have discussed in person, beautifully written

Re: DNA altering... I often wonder if I received my propensity to consume drugs from my father just as I received my questioning nature. He started taking drugs around the same age as I and seems to harbor a great respect and interest for them even today. I told him about meeting the Shulgins and he looked at me wide eyed as if he was wondering "did I pass this insatiable unquenchable taste for adventure and open doors on to my own daughter." I'll never forget that look. Will we pass our propensity to consume drugs on to our children?

 

[Ghettochrist]

Oooh getting interesting now LL aha

Tis a touchy concept.. I wonder what people have already noticed? ussually though most kids i know into drugs have druggy parents or ex druggies.

But they are not very clued up alot of the time.. just messy! *hmmm* *ponders*

EDIT: just thought i'd add my rents were and bassically are teetotal.

 

[PepperSocks]

What's "teetotal" mean?

My desire to take drugs is very innate. I can remember in grade 3 (dunno where it came from) but the teacher was talking about drugs. I asked "what's a drug" she said "something people take to feel good or different than they normally feel". In my head: Hmm, something that makes me different that I have never felt before, I'd like to try that someday. In grade 3!!!!!

When pot became available to me in grade 9 I was off to the races. Then experimented with stimulants, depressants and then later, psychedelics.

My parents and our society around here is all about the alcohol. Highly catholic also, drugs are quite unacceptable. Don't know where my drive to alter my conscioussness came from but I know it's very innate.

 

[Ghettochrist]

Tee-total.. erm no drinking it normally means but i just mean generally drug free in general.

And yeah in last year of primary school i won best dare student in that year and some girl did too and we got a disposable cam and certificate lmao in the assembly.. guess it fascinated me so much i actually put some effort into the class and the book we had to fill out! aha.. 8)

 

[PepperSocks]

That's funny. In grade 6 we have something called VIP stood for Values, Influences, and Peers. Same kind of deal but no one won anything or was graded on it.

I remember it being really interesting. I found learning about different drugs and what they did quite fascinating. They even had a diagram of a crackpipe and basically showed how it was used! lol

 

[Ghettochrist]

Sounds much better and more informative than DARE.. DARE sucks!

So much misinformation.. like talktofrank by a police officer or something aha

 

[nearjat]

I remember reading a description of LSD in around 5th grade, and right then I decided that I will trip at least one time before I die haha. Didn't tell anyone tho.

 

[B9]

but rather in the sense of having started down a path and progressed too far down it not to see what lies at the end of the rabbit-hole.

At the bottom of the rabbit hole I'm inclined to believe what you would find is yourself - lets hope you like it.

 

[Sustanon]

I react with dismay whenever anyone tells me that they do drugs to find "their place" or, worse, "the answers." Psychedelics are not answers nor do they provide answers; they only ask questions, they open up doors but do not illuminate the darkness beyond; they dig a hole but do not insert a signpost, they are the yin to a yang which will be different for each person who attempts to find it.

They do give us answers so id have to dissagree with that. U realise things u would never realise. Opens up doors too which can make u think clearer more deeper. Same as meditating, u can acheive that state too but it would require practising. Mushrooms for example made me respect nature. Ever since i have done shrooms i love nature. I could be here all day listing the things that they helped me with. We all think differently but thats my oppinion.

 

[SpiralOut]

I think it's a bit of both. Do drugs stimulate a pharmacological reaction in your body that is designed to make you feel a certain way? Sure. Still, psychedelics alter your brain chemistry and open it up your mind to new and exciting modes of thought.

I find both answers AND questions in my psychedelic use. Before using mind altering drugs I was pretty blinkered in my world view. I thought a certain way and didn't really want to challenge myself on those views. Since taking psychs I've found the courage to challenge my views on things, to be open to new ideas, and to expand my mind/consciousness to see where it can take me.

At the same time, psychs have opened up a bunch of questions about who I am, what do I want to do with my time on this Earth/in this reality, and lots of other tough questions. SKL is right, a lot of those questions lead to dark and scary places/trains of thought. Still, that's a good thing, isn't it? Who really wants to go through life as a mindless zombie?

Finally, I'd just say that the drugs themselves aren't what's important. It's their use combined with certain settings and experiences and relationships that matter. I've tripped out plenty of times by myself. Sometimes I got some great insight or really spent some time pondering a philosophical question that had been nagging me for a long time. Many times though, I didn't get much out of those trips because I did them alone. I've found that when I go and put myself in a new place or hang out with people I enjoy being around, the trip has more meaning and leaves a lasting impression that the others don't. You've got to combine the drug with great life experiences, then you'll find you get the most out of them.

For example, I was supposed to go with some friends to this great psytrance type concert a few weeks ago. I'm really not that social of a guy and I've always been a bit uncomfortable in big social settings, especially by myself. My friends ended up not being able to make it and I was actually going to just tear up the ticket and stay home. Instead, I said F it, dropped some acid, and went to the concert. I had the time of my life! Met some great people and it's a night I'll never forget.

Life is about experiences and the adventures along the way, isn't it? IMHO, psychedelics open you up and allow you to do things/think things that you never would have before. They improve/enhance/adapt the experience we call "life" and I think that's a good thing.

 

[Xorkoth]

Awesome thread, SKL. Thanks for posting. I've enjoyed reading the whole thing. Some assorted thoughts in the form of responses:

I very much agree with this.

Psychedelics have helped me through things and given me some self discovery but that was during a different time. I find now my personality is more established and I use psychedelics more recreationally. I never travel the vortexes of existential crap anymore, I have no interest in seeing things i think are best left in the subconscious.

While I still enjoy when I (very occasionally) get a really ego-crushing experience, I mostly share your experience. When I was younger, my personality was much less established, so when I tripped it wasn't very recreational... and every one would leave me feeling changed. Nowadays I certainly still use them, but it has become much more recreational, and/or utilitarian - that is, I use them as tools to help me achieve an end, such as analyzing my situation in a functional way.

I don't feel personally that there are things better left to my subconsciousness... I've never really felt particularly uncomfortable with what I've found, and I'd love to have another ego-crushing experience sometime. In the past, for a couple of years after my initial psychedelic breakthrough, I was feeling like I had "eaten from the tree of knowledge" and life would have been easier had I not been so aware, but nowadays I do not feel this way anymore; I entirely enjoy the level of awareness I have and I find that it actually makes it easier for me to live in the moment and enjoy living life, as it helps me to put stresses of life into perspective.

Oooh getting interesting now LL aha

Tis a touchy concept.. I wonder what people have already noticed? ussually though most kids i know into drugs have druggy parents or ex druggies.

But they are not very clued up alot of the time.. just messy! *hmmm* *ponders*

EDIT: just thought i'd add my rents were and bassically are teetotal.

Interesting idea... I do think that for whatever reason, drug fascination (and addiction) are passed down from parent to child. I'm not sure if it's nature or nurture though... it certainly seems like it could be genetic but the way in which you're raised cannot be understated, and people tend to pass on their parents' child-raising techniques, simply because that's what they are modeling after, whether consciously or subconsciously.

In my case, both of my parents aren't fascinated by drugs... my dad is more so than my mom, and I suppose he drinks regularly, but he doesn't abuse drugs in any way and is quite disciplined. My mom basically doesn't alter her consciousness in any way anymore. Other than alcohol, my parents have both tried marijuana, and I think my dad enjoyed it, but my mom hated it and apparently only did it due to the peer pressure of being in college in the '70s.

And then there's me. And my siblings both enjoy drugs to a limited extent. But I'm the only one who's obsessed. My family on both sides does have a hi8story of addiction... but my parents themselves and no one else in my family seems to be subject to it.

What's "teetotal" mean?

My desire to take drugs is very innate. I can remember in grade 3 (dunno where it came from) but the teacher was talking about drugs. I asked "what's a drug" she said "something people take to feel good or different than they normally feel". In my head: Hmm, something that makes me different that I have never felt before, I'd like to try that someday. In grade 3!!!!!

When pot became available to me in grade 9 I was off to the races. Then experimented with stimulants, depressants and then later, psychedelics.

My parents and our society around here is all about the alcohol. Highly catholic also, drugs are quite unacceptable. Don't know where my drive to alter my conscioussness came from but I know it's very innate.

Tee-total.. erm no drinking it normally means but i just mean generally drug free in general.

And yeah in last year of primary school i won best dare student in that year and some girl did too and we got a disposable cam and certificate lmao in the assembly.. guess it fascinated me so much i actually put some effort into the class and the book we had to fill out! aha.. 8)

That's hilarious, because in 5th grade I totally won a DARE competition too! I wrote a poem called "Drugs are for Thugs" or something to that effect. Except I totally bought into it all. I was a very naive child... interestingly, I didn't have any interest in drugs whatsoever until I was 16... and didn't try any until my 17th birthday. But when I started, I jumped in head-first. The first time I successfully got high, I started doing it every day... no joke. I went from zero to sixty in an instant. A year later other drugs started following. And the rest is (literally because of the Internet) history.

I didn't really say all I had to say about this thread, so I'll come back later with fresh thoughts.

 

[PepperSocks]

I don't feel personally that there are things better left to my subconsciousness... I've never really felt particularly uncomfortable with what I've found, and I'd love to have another ego-crushing experience sometime. In the past, for a couple of years after my initial psychedelic breakthrough, I was feeling like I had "eaten from the tree of knowledge" and life would have been easier had I not been so aware, but nowadays I do not feel this way anymore; I entirely enjoy the level of awareness I have and I find that it actually makes it easier for me to live in the moment and enjoy living life, as it helps me to put stresses of life into perspective.

I should be more clear with my words. I don't mean "never" I just mean extremely rarely, like on the scale of years apart. It feels as if another period of life has to be entered before having another experience of that magnitude. Most definitely I sometimes feel life would be easier without being so aware but that is fading. It's all about integrating that awareness into regular life and getting comfortable with, sometimes for some people this can take a few years. Living on a low awareness level when you're capable of higher awareness is the definition of ignorance I believe and the world could certainly use less of that.

Totally hear you about putting the stresses of life into perspective. I know many people who get so worked up over petty things, ego-less experience would change their thought patterns greatly.

EDIT: This is such a hard subject to convey, I don't know exactly what I mean by things being better left to the subconscious. I guess it's just that some things are more comfortable if left to the subconciouss; as if it would be hard to live in the social world where other people are not at that level of awareness; as if you're jumping ahead of them and kind of dissassociating from their way of thinking which is the way of thinking you're used to interacting with them with. Changes....they take some getting used to.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, no worries, I get what you're saying. And to clarify, in case it wasn't, I'm saying that I hardly ever have any sort of ego-loss experience anymore. When I say I use them to de-stress, I mean that I use lower doses that don't come near to ego loss.

I definitely feel you that it can be hard to live in the society we do when you're aware on a different level. But then again, I feel that it's where we're headed, evolutionarily speaking. I think people in general are becoming more aware, and since we're at the cusp, a lot are not. But more and more are. And I'm not saying psychedelics are the reason for it, although I think they're a factor. I also think the Internet is a factor, as well as the evolution of the brain (or perhaps this is a result). So it's inevitable that it would be difficult (changes, as you say, take getting used to). But I feel that it's what we're supposed to be doing. If you think about it, becoming more aware is what humans have been steadily doing for our entire existence as a species.

I was just watching a special on the National Geographic channel about the evolution of modern humans and it got me thinking.

 

[Nibiru]

Will we pass our propensity to consume drugs on to our children?

I sure bloody hope not for my own sake. My parents both have a lot of head-shaker stories. Yikes.

This is extremely off-topic, but I completely disagree. Besides that fact that 'buddhist' is an incredibly ambiguous term, as the beliefs and practices differ greatly between different sects, Buddhism in all its forms is as much a man-made socio-political institution as any other religion.

Well, Dharmic religions are definitely systems made by people. But I think that what a lot of this kind of thought tries to address isn't man-made at all. Eastern philosophical concepts like Dharma and Tao seem to imply a underlying universal pattern. I kind of view these things like I view mathematics and science. The scientific method is a man-made way of addressing phenomena that are mathematical at heart, and I am pretty sure that the principles of mathematics are universal, regardless of how we choose to define them.

Quicker and much much more fun then sitting monky like meditating. Lets not forgot how damn fun tripping is; which is, at heart, why I like it

Man, you make it sound too hard. All you have to do is eat the right food, ignore television and have pretty things around you all day, including (and especially) plants and animals. But you can meditate if you want to as well. If it's something you have to try to do though, then ur doinitrong. It just sort of happens. And fun is a big reason why people should trip indeed. Fun has an intrinsic spiritual value to it too. Even some very un-psychedelic and nasty drugs can cause a person to grow spiritually in some way; transcend or whatever the hell sounds intelligent. I don't really take them for spiritual reasons, I do everything I do for spiritual reasons, including eating, working, making art and yelling at my pets. All of which can be fun or not. But really, there is no quick way to anything. I think psychedelic use and spiritual practices like meditation and raja-yoga aren't even really going for the same thing, and I wish people were able to recognize that. It's an apples and oranges type deal. The way consumer society works, I'm sure people would love medicine to take care of their spirituality for them, but it really doesn't work that way. It's something you have to do ultimately, in the same way you can take a whole bunch of medicine to treat poor health, but you'd be a lot better avoiding the cause of poor health altogether, or the way that a person can take a bunch of psychiatric medication for their problems, but often will never get rid of them until they address the underlying issues. I mean, if psychedelics can help a person manage with a spiritually off-balance life, then that's great, but it's not going to actually put the balance there. A person has to develop the methods to balance their life for themselves, really. The only way around anything in reality is straight through, in my opinion.