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My current take on psychedelics

SKL

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
14,647
I take drugs for granted. I've been altering my consciousness for years, and altering it profoundly, so profoundly that I am not sure that I can easily place myself in a perspective where I can imagine what it is like to go day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year, and lifetime by lifetime without some chemical entering my body which will alter my mind. My life perspective is based around altering my perspective. It is as if the drugs have grafted themselves onto my soul, or onto my DNA. There is little I feel that I can do about it, not in the sense of addiction, although in clinical terms I am certainly an addict, but rather in the sense of having started down a path and progressed too far down it not to see what lies at the end of the rabbit-hole.

I don't see this as a bad thing, or, conversely, as a good thing, but rather as a fact, like the fact that I was born at a particular time, or in a particular sociocultural context, which necessarily informs the way in which I percieve, and in turn, the way in which I interact with the world. Consciusness is our link to reality. Consciousness is based in neurochemistry. Neurochemistry creates reality, but reality is also the seat of neurochemistry. Likewise perception leads to behavior which influences events in the real world, but events in the real world are what we percieve. Consciousness, perception, reality, behavior -- intertwining to create a Gordian knot. In consciousness altering drugs, what I seek, perhaps, is the blade that will cut the knot, and allow me some time mano-a-mano with my own consciousness, that I might understand what exactly it means to exist, to exist as myself, and to exist in and interact with a universe. I wouldn't go so far as to state that I am seeking my place in the universe.

Ah, but "my place in the universe?" ... what an egotistical statement. From a really birds'-eye-view, holistic perspective, there is no "my place", or there is no "me." That is only a seperation of self and universe. You don't need to find your place in the universe. You are already there, or rather, the universe is already here, there, and everywhere, and you are just some infintesimal self-aware atom, which thinks highly enough of itself that it imagines it has a "place." It does not, not in any conventional sense, at least not any more than one single molecule of water has a "place" in a river. Finding your "place" in the universe is like pissing in a river as it flows inexhorably downstream.

So, you've never felt more "at place" than when peaking on L. Heroin would make you nod out and not feel your neck starting to ache while you're doing it. That's a pharmacological reaction. Diamorphine tickles a feel good receptor along with a pain killing receptor and, sometimes tragically, a respiratory-depression receptor. LSD tickles a mystical-experience receptor. (My pharmacologist friends are horrified. Permit me a metaphor.) Feeling as you do is the intended effect of the drug. It is not necessarily "finding your place" in anything outside of the confines of your own serotonin system.

I react with dismay whenever anyone tells me that they do drugs to find "their place" or, worse, "the answers." Psychedelics are not answers nor do they provide answers; they only ask questions, they open up doors but do not illuminate the darkness beyond; they dig a hole but do not insert a signpost, they are the yin to a yang which will be different for each person who attempts to find it.

However, like the music of the Grateful Dead, they provide one thing that I can never be cynical about, even if I've developed a lot of cynicism about the cultures that surround them ... they provide a sense of a certain timelessness, and feeling that something is all right, and that there is a superstructure to reality and to perception, and that things are flowing, a connectedness of things in an increasingly fragmented and schizophrenic social landscape. Psychedelics what keeps me sane, why I have some tiny hint of insight. Sometimes the insight is terribly depressing, emotionally crippling, disturbing ... but it makes me feel alive, like more than an automaton.
 
SomeKindaLove said:
I react with dismay whenever anyone tells me that they do drugs to find "their place" or, worse, "the answers." Psychedelics are not answers nor do they provide answers; they only ask questions, they open up doors but do not illuminate the darkness beyond; they dig a hole but do not insert a signpost, they are the yin to a yang which will be different for each person who attempts to find it.

SomeKindaLove said:
Psychedelics what keeps me sane, why I have some tiny hint of insight. Sometimes the insight is terribly depressing, emotionally crippling, disturbing ... but it makes me feel alive, like more than an automaton.

These two comments both resonated deeply with me... the first one is something I have realized myself lately, and the second one is something that I have felt for a while and now more strongly then ever since I have not had psychedelics available much lately.

I had a couple of acid trips recently though, the first time in about half a year and they were both very revealing. I would say they were my greatest journeys yet, even though they did show me horrible things about myself, truths which I don't like, but at the same time knowing these things somehow makes me less of a slave to them.

Normally a lot of these posts about psychedelics don't mean much to me but yours really did touch me, SKL.
 
I react with dismay whenever anyone tells me that they do drugs to find "their place" or, worse, "the answers." Psychedelics are not answers nor do they provide answers; they only ask questions, they open up doors but do not illuminate the darkness beyond; they dig a hole but do not insert a signpost, they are the yin to a yang which will be different for each person who attempts to find it.

This is why, according to my Christian world view, psychedelics can be dangerous. I think that they have the inordinate ability to open you up to what my worldview sees as evil. This is why I take psychedelics for recreation and not for self discovery. But surely I cannot be the first "Christian" to think that I am above the influence of these chemicals. Am I being duped? Sometimes I honestly can't tell. But on the flip side, if the drugs have the ability to open my mind to evil ideas then why wouldn't they have the ability to open my mind to good ideas?

I guess I view psychedelics as being similar to say, masturbation. I don't think masturbation is a sin per se, but the thoughts that usually surround the act are a sin. I guess the same is the same for drugs. I don't think that taking psychs is a sin per se but the things that often go with it are e.g. disobeying the law (which Christians are commanded to keep).

Very interesting thoughts though. If I am ever East I will hunt you down and buy you a beer (or a tab ;)).
 
Damien said:
my Christian worldview

incidentally what's your take on Revelation 21:8? "sorcery" in the KJV is "pharmakeia" in the Greek ...

that always troubled my Christian worldview...
 
Hallo SKL - and yeah I kind of get what your saying - I suspect there are other ways to open the doors as well as psychedelics - but psychs are quicker.
 
Candy
is dandy
but liquor
is quicker
-- Ogden Nash
 
but psychs. are still indespensible IMO ...

they ask the questions

you provide the answers

without psychs, there would be no question

therefore there would be no answer

the question of course is where do you get your answer once you've asked your question
 
incidentally what's your take on Revelation 21:8? "sorcery" in the KJV is "pharmakeia" in the Greek ...

that always troubled my Christian worldview...

See, this is another example of why I can't tell if I am being duped. LSD is not heroin. I think drugs like heroin aren't evil per se either but they have a higher potential to lead you away from God than LSD. Am I just creating this justification in my mind? It's entirely possible. The conundrum that I often encounter is that I most often see the evil that substances can produce (what I would call truth) when I am on them. So where does that leave me? How am I getting truth from evil?
As a Christian I think the best 'litmus test' is to ask yourself "Where does the glory go in this?" if the glory goes to God than I believe it is good. If the glory goes somewhere else than it is bad. I believe drugs can easily become your god through your donating to them, what God demands of you e.g. time, money and praise.

I don't want to turn this thread into a theological debate as I am interested to hear other's POVs on psychs but hit me up in PM or e-mail if you wanna talk more (anyone). :)
 
It is as if the drugs have grafted themselves onto my soul, or onto my DNA. There is little I feel that I can do about it, not in the sense of addiction, although in clinical terms I am certainly an addict, but rather in the sense of having started down a path and progressed too far down it not to see what lies at the end of the rabbit-hole.

While I don't feel that the drugs are a fundamental part of who I am as if they are grafted to me but I do feel the "addiction" thing, once one starts down this path, it's hard if not impossible to turn around until you're done doing what you're doing.

Consciusness is our link to reality. Consciousness is based in neurochemistry. Neurochemistry creates reality, but reality is also the seat of neurochemistry. Likewise perception leads to behavior which influences events in the real world, but events in the real world are what we percieve. Consciousness, perception, reality, behavior -- intertwining to create a Gordian knot.

I've thought about this a lot myself although I find it leads me nowhere but to twisted confusion. I find when I forget about that stuff and just live my life without those kinds of thoughts I feel more "at home" and "human".

In consciousness altering drugs, what I seek, perhaps, is the blade that will cut the knot, and allow me some time mano-a-mano with my own consciousness, that I might understand what exactly it means to exist, to exist as myself, and to exist in and interact with a universe. I wouldn't go so far as to state that I am seeking my place in the universe.

I feel that if I have a "place in the universe" I'm already there. I'm just living my simple little human life doing what comes natural to me. Trying to be more than this just leads nowhere, or maybe leads to being a raving schizophrenic who claims to have solved the secrets of the universe.

Sometimes the insight is terribly depressing, emotionally crippling, disturbing ... but it makes me feel alive, like more than an automaton.

That struck me. I feel that deeply.
 
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This is why, according to my Christian world view, psychedelics can be dangerous. I think that they have the inordinate ability to open you up to what my worldview sees as evil. This is why I take psychedelics for recreation and not for self discovery. But surely I cannot be the first "Christian" to think that I am above the influence of these chemicals. Am I being duped? Sometimes I honestly can't tell. But on the flip side, if the drugs have the ability to open my mind to evil ideas then why wouldn't they have the ability to open my mind to good ideas?

I guess I view psychedelics as being similar to say, masturbation. I don't think masturbation is a sin per se, but the thoughts that usually surround the act are a sin. I guess the same is the same for drugs. I don't think that taking psychs is a sin per se but the things that often go with it are e.g. disobeying the law (which Christians are commanded to keep).

I very much agree with this.

Psychedelics have helped me through things and given me some self discovery but that was during a different time. I find now my personality is more established and I use psychedelics more recreationally. I never travel the vortexes of existential crap anymore, I have no interest in seeing things i think are best left in the subconscious.

Using psychedelics to bring out feeling of love and togetherness I'm all for but I think as a living human it's good to stay in this world. Leaving it and finding out the secrets of (and becoming) the universe is for when we die.

EDIT: I must add that certain problems psychedelics are no good at healing. The problem still gets healed but psychedelics did not speed up the process at all. Any development was produced through genuine everyday consciousness and opening up slowly in incremental steps over a long period of time.
 
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psychedelics and 'me'

Personally I find it hard to imagine not using psychedelics to push to the very farthest edges of consciousness. I don't use psychedelics to seek knowledge, but to explore the most distant regions of the universe inside of my mind. In a way, I view them as life's greatest possible adventure; and truly the 'final frontier' here on earth.

I guess that's just my personality, though, I've always been pushing the envelope and going 'furthur'. I generally have very little use for psychedelics that leave the ego intact, except as a substitute for alcohol while socializing or just hanging out. My ideal psychedelic experience is 10+ hits of fresh LSD, laying down in bed listening to the Grateful Dead. :) I love completely losing myself, shedding my whole reality like a snake sheds his skin, and completely becoming one with the universe. This process is an integral part of who I am; I'm always shifting perspectives, never stagnating into a belief system, and I really enjoy the way it makes me feel. :)

One thing I can say for sure as well, is that there was absolutely no possible way I could have remained a christian after my first ego loss experience on about 8 hits of potent LSD. I was raised catholic and had always believed in the 'guy in the sky' kinda god; I simply cannot continue believing that anymore. Now I don't claim to know what's going on in the universe, but one thing that I'm convinced of for certain through my psychedelic experiences is that its much more complicated (or just way different and more bizarre) than what they told us in church. My further experimentation with DMT only confirmed this. Not that I don't respect the views of christians, I just personally don't subscribe to that belief system anymore.

To be honest, I really don't believe anything. The very idea of subscribing to any type of belief system or dogma terrifies the crap out of me. I don't know whats going on here in this universe, and I don't believe anybody else does either. I'm extremely suspicious of organizations claiming to have access to some type of higher truth (psychedelic prosthelytizers included).

I guess if you could say I put my faith in anything though, its the music. Specifically the music of the Grateful Dead. :) I just think its an incredibly splendid thing, and a testament to the glory of existence and the capability that humans have to experience togetherness, love, and beauty.

I might add some more thoughts on the matter later, as its certainly a complicated subject. One could easily write a very long book about it and not do the subject justice. These are just a few thoughts I've thrown down off the top of my head and are definitely not my comprehensive analysis of the psychedelic universe.
 
It is as if the drugs have grafted themselves onto my soul, or onto my DNA.

LSD and gene expression:
http://deoxy.org/wiki/Acid_Genes

Maybe it was the way I was raised or something (non-religious, but spiritual environment, art and colour everywhere, lots of freedom, lots of books), but psychedelics didn't really make such a big breakthrough for me as they did other people. I dunno. Where a lot of people seem to have gotten a big 'a-ha!' mine was more of an "oh yeah, I know what your sayin".
 
Psychedelics can certainly help us understand more about both the human brain, mind & consciousness. The doors they open and the barriers they remove are valuable tools for introspection. However, even Ken Kesey said in regards to LSD something to the effect of "There are only so many times you can walk through that door and come back with something useful." I find this to be very true, but more in regards to frequent usage than # of times used overall. The most enlightening trips I've had are usually after substantial breaks from psych usage. I say enlightening, but I don't mean to infer that its the drugs that do the enlightening, but that they provide a headspace that quite often facilitates my own personal methods for edification. Like many things, what you get out of it is strongly dependent on what you put in.

As for psych's and religion, i used to be somewhat religious, but now not at all, but it wasn't really psych's that changed this, though they certainly played a role. It has more to do with higher education, specifically some of the psychology, sociology, & world literature classes i've taken. Personally, it seems that all religions claim to have a monopoly on either truth or morality, some both, and when a lot of different groups claim to have the exact answer, odds are none of them do. There are certainly good things that can be gleaned from all religious texts, but the way that religion has been used for basically all of recorded history and probably longer is one of if not the most destructive force on humanity. They appeal mostly to fear, prejudice and other lower brain functions. If christians payed more attention to the teachings attributed to jesus (a la Thomas Jefferson's "The Life & Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth") than those of paul, or choosing arbitrary laws from leviticus to harp on and on about I'd take much less issue with them, but the problem, as it is with most religions, is that they are mostly used as tools for political or financial manipulation, and I find the current state of christianity in america to be both arrogant and appalling. I'm not saying all christians are assholes or anything, and quite a few of my friends who are christians have agreed with me on several of these points.

Psychedelics can precipitate mystical experiences, and many people interpret this as contact with some external force as opposed to an internal one, but I tend to believe the converse. The mystical experience seems to be a seminal human experience to me. People have been seeking out these experiences, often with the help of various entheogens, for almost all of our species' existence.

I guess if you could say I put my faith in anything though, its the music. Specifically the music of the Grateful Dead. I just think its an incredibly splendid thing, and a testament to the glory of existence and the capability that humans have to experience togetherness, love, and beauty.

I couldn't agree more. I'm more of a Phish head, but that's certainly in the same vein. And people have been seeking this type of experience for practically ever, from babylonians burning pot under a tent and dancing to drumbeats, to american natives' use of cacti & elaborate ritual, and similar practices in africa, all the way through the Grateful Dead & Merry Pranksters and their modern counterparts catching bands like Phish and Medeski, Martin, and Wood. I can't put my finger on exactly what causes these mystical experiences, but I've never had such feelings of pure awe, wonderment, and sensation of the connectedness of all (or at least many) things. Thats enough for now...
 
Well said, AMD. I think more of this stuff comes from within than from outside. Its just a matter of unlocking it. Each different substance unlocks certain parts of our brain, and allows introspection from a different perspective, but still all our own at the same time. Its great.
 
To be honest, I really don't believe anything. The very idea of subscribing to any type of belief system or dogma terrifies the crap out of me. I don't know whats going on here in this universe, and I don't believe anybody else does either. I'm extremely suspicious of organizations claiming to have access to some type of higher truth (psychedelic prosthelytizers included).

I was raised catholic too and I don't subscribe to it anymore after my first few psychedelic experiences.

There are just some things I retain. It just feels to me that some things are best left alone in our subconscious, like we shouldn't be so incredibly aware of how we're wired up, I find it impedes living "in the moment". I've had psychedelic trips that I feel showed me "too much" like some things are better left alone. Live while alive, have ego softening and loosening experiences on psychedelics but leave ego death for when the body dies. This is just my opinion on the matter and it works for me.
 
I react with dismay whenever anyone tells me that they do drugs to find "their place" or, worse, "the answers." Psychedelics are not answers nor do they provide answers; they only ask questions, they open up doors but do not illuminate the darkness beyond; they dig a hole but do not insert a signpost, they are the yin to a yang which will be different for each person who attempts to find it.

What kind of answers are you looking for tho. I love psychedelics because they are the most powerful antidote to despair, the only thing that can truly help with the grief of losing loved ones and the most powerful reason to carry on living I've ever found. Nothing else even comes close.

All the manmade religions like buddhism or hinduism or christianity etc are basically bollocks. In your hour of despair they never help.

But it all depends on the individual - the vast majority of people who take psychedelics don't get what I get out of them.
 
Buddhism isn't really a religion, more a philosophy and a means of going about it. Buddhists don't believe in a concrete soul, have no real focus on God concepts and in it's oldest form, Theravada Buddhism, saw ritual as useless. Buddhism grew out of Hindu thought and both have a lot of parallels. Hinduism itself isn't one religion, but an umbrella term for a whole bunch of spiritual, philosophical and cultural traditions that developed over thousands of years. I think to lump Hinduism and Buddhism in the same category as Christianity doesn't make sense when a person understands the difference between South Asian and Semitic/western thought. Christianity limits spiritual knowledge to two treatises
(Old and New Testament), where Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism together have thousands, if not tens of thousands of pieces of literature relating to spirituality and how to go about it, spanning a whole bunch of different modes of thought, from atheism to agnosticism to really Christian-like theism in some Vaishnavite Hindu traditions. It's really a whole different approach to thinking than Abrahamic religion. I can't even call it religion because there are less 'rules', more ways for you to develop your own set of rules.
 
At the risk of going really off topic Christianity isn't a religion per se but rather a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Everything else that is tacked onto that is religion. The Protestant Reformation was against the overly "religious" aspects of Catholicism, but then in turn wound up creating much of it's own. Ideally Christianity is a very personal thing, "where one or two are gathered in My name, there I Am." Of course this is not how it is lived in practice. But in Sri Lanka, fundamentalist Buddhism is/was a repressive political force, so "religion" can be tacked on harmfully to any sort of spirituality.
 
I have to stop talking about what psychedelics do and how they should be used. The discussions are so ambiguous and I just end up running around in circles contradicting myself.
 
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