[Mushrooms Subthread] Potentiation by Citrus Juice

[crOOk]

@Blowmonkey
Weren't you that guy who went all crazy in the thread "ethics of poisoning pets"?
Now you don't have anything to say about someone who openly asks forum members to poison their friends with tryptamines (or rather: Increasing the strength of their trip without them knowing about it? Way to go, bro!

Anyway, just ingested 5g of citric acid along with 5mg of 4-HO-MIPT. Taste: Sour
EDIT: My stomach feels bad.
EDIT2: After 25 minutes, I'd say it has definitely decreased the time of onset, I felt whoozy after 10 minutes, usually takes more like 30 for me to kick in. But also, it doesn't seem to do anything about the intensity so far. I do feel slightly uncomfortable though, like a headache or slight nausea or something... Maybe 5g was too much. We'll see what happens, I'm off to this concert, "Final Fantasy", a guy with a violin and a tape recorder, he's good, check him out, 6 Euros for the concert, cheap.

I hear if you snort the lemon juice you get really high.

LOL, yeah I thought about saying that. I reconsidered though, when I remembered that guy who actually mixed raspberry effervescent powder into his coke in order to flavor it... 8) Imagine the fun of giving coke that is cut with citric acid to someone! :D

crOOk

 

[Blowmonkey]

@Blowmonkey
Weren't you that guy who went all crazy in the thread "ethics of poisoning pets"?
Now you don't have anything to say about someone who openly asks forum members to poison their friends with tryptamines (or rather: Increasing the strength of their trip without them knowing about it? Way to go, bro!

What_the_fuck..? You cannot compare this.. I'm not even going to argue with you about it because it's a retarded argument to bring up.

edit, I just can't help responding: Let's just say that animals don't have the intention to trip on drugs. Humans do. When you put someone in a double blind test they know that somethign is going to happen, they've agreed upon entering. If they don't want to be part of the test, they do not enter. An animal hasn't agreed with anything because it cannot make the choice. You're forcing it to get high. it's a whole nother thing and as I said, the argument is fucking retarded.. Go somewhere else to try and prove a point.

 

[NinjaElite]

Yea as far as the placebo thing goes, I believe I am experienced enough with mushrooms that I could tell if trip was actually increased 4-5 fold without doing a blind-test. But, until I try it myself I wont give my opinion on the matter one way or another. No luck hunting last night but the fall season should start up any day now so I'll update with my conclusion.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Yea as far as the placebo thing goes, I believe I am experienced enough with mushrooms that I could tell if trip was actually increased 4-5 fold without doing a blind-test.

You'll never know for sure. I've had countless of mushroom trips and one of my last ones with only 2 grams I was tripping harder than some of my higher end dosage trips. I thought it was comparable with a very high 5-MeO-DMT dosage, which is pretty intense to say the least.

Oh and hey, thanks for reading my PM man, appreciated.. 8)

 

[gloggawogga]

Btw, gloggawogga, it's not quite a simple a case as people in the 50s and 60s eating an orange with their mushrooms.

Why not? Lemonade was actually very popular beverage in the 50's thru the 70's. No one ever chugged down lemonade with shrooms? I'll bet thousands of people did, especially on hot days. I really see no way 3x or a 5x potentiaton could have been undiscovered for so long.

This is about using citric acid (or fruits with high amounts thereof) in anextraction, preferably on a dry material. It's like when you add lemon juice to ephedra tea or yohimbe tea, sort of.

Like when you add lemon to mushroom tea? This has never been done till 2005?

And how is that shamans, who could discover that MAOI containing plants potentiate shrooms, couldn't discover that citrus does the same?

And the testimony of many many people who have tried this and say it works cannot, imho, be dismissed as 'pure speculation' or 'unscientific.'

It is entirely subjective speculation and entirely unscientific. There are no controls, no blind tests, and no one on that forum is even suggesting there should be. No one is even working off of the same batch of shrooms. Nor is there any hypothesis to explain the method of action. Its been known for a long time that making a tea with shrooms gives you a faster come up, but thats not the same as potentiation, like what you get form an MAOI, which actually inhibits psilocin metabolism.

 

[Jhon]

I can beleive this. Limes and lemons are both known to contain high concentrations of placebic acid, which on its own potentiates all psychedelics, and as the sodium placebate salt immediately brings you down from a trip.

 

[Ismene]

I'd forgot about the placebic acid. That explains it

 

[fastandbulbous]

This is about using citric acid (or fruits with high amounts thereof) in anextraction, preferably on a dry material. It's like when you add lemon juice to ephedra tea or yohimbe tea, sort of.

If it's all about citric acid, then several brands of soft drinks should be doing the same thing as they contain similar levels of citric acid as lemon juice, but I'm yet to see any thread about (insert favourite soft drink) potentiating the effects.

If it potentiates psilocin then it would also potentiate other dialkyltryptamines in the same way. As there are several dimethyltryptamine based drugs used clinically (for treating migrane if memory serves), then by now things like the BNF & PDR would be highlighting the potentiation of their action by lemon juice (in same way thay that grapfruit juice/terfenadine - new antihistamine drug - is potentially dangerous). As that hasn't happened - and they do find these things out pretty quickly from side effects reporting by doctors - it doesn't look like there's any biochemical/pharmacological mechanism that's at work. That only leaves a psychological explanation - placebo effect

 

[futura]

People believe what they want to believe before the truth.

 

[Black]

I can beleive this. Limes and lemons are both known to contain high concentrations of placebic acid, which on its own potentiates all psychedelics, and as the sodium placebate salt immediately brings you down from a trip.

best post in this thread!

 

[crOOk]

What_the_fuck..? You cannot compare this.. I'm not even going to argue with you about it because it's a retarded argument to bring up.

edit, I just can't help responding: Let's just say that animals don't have the intention to trip on drugs. Humans do. When you put someone in a double blind test they know that somethign is going to happen, they've agreed upon entering. If they don't want to be part of the test, they do not enter. An animal hasn't agreed with anything because it cannot make the choice. You're forcing it to get high. it's a whole nother thing and as I said, the argument is fucking retarded.. Go somewhere else to try and prove a point.

Oh, this was about a doubleblind test? Yeah well, that's a whole different story. To me it sounded more like it was about giving something to someone without them knowing what they're in for which wouldn't be cool at all imho. Doublebind studies are fine, sure. Anyway, there's no point in doing it because everyone will notice the taste of several grams of citric acid in their mouth. :D
And btw, about the animal thing, I think you still got me wrong. I was never ever planning to poison an animal and I've never done it. All I wanted was to start a discussion about the ethics of doing such a thing.

EDIT: Hmmm, those 5mg + 5g citric acid hit me quiet hard. I've never ingested such a low dose and I don't think it was stronger than my previous 10mg trials. BUT, I am almost certain that it hit me a LOT faster than usually and faded a lot faster as well.
I'm not very experienced with intranasal Miprocin, but I'd say it might have been comparable to 5mg intranasally. Further research necessary, it will be a pleasure.

Sorry, OT: Oh and the concert was awesome, it was his first appearance as headliner ever, unfortunately he was later joined by his producer who played the drums. Horrible. His show is unbelievable, he sings and records his violin on multiple tracks and plays it backwards and shit. It's unbelievable, really. And he was so goddamn nervous, he was close to tears at times because of the amazing feedback. Canadian guy btw, "Final Fantasy", check it out!

crOOk

 

[Black Octagon]

If it's all about citric acid, then several brands of soft drinks should be doing the same thing as they contain similar levels of citric acid as lemon juice, but I'm yet to see any thread about (insert favourite soft drink) potentiating the effects.

If it potentiates psilocin then it would also potentiate other dialkyltryptamines in the same way. As there are several dimethyltryptamine based drugs used clinically (for treating migrane if memory serves), then by now things like the BNF & PDR would be highlighting the potentiation of their action by lemon juice (in same way thay that grapfruit juice/terfenadine - new antihistamine drug - is potentially dangerous). As that hasn't happened - and they do find these things out pretty quickly from side effects reporting by doctors - it doesn't look like there's any biochemical/pharmacological mechanism that's at work. That only leaves a psychological explanation - placebo effect

Yeah sorry potentiate was almost definitely the wrong word. But what about just increasing the absorption - not necessarily the rate of absorption, just the raw percentage that actually gets into the bloodstream?

I mentioned ephedra tea before. Ephedra is particularly resistant to regular absorption in the body. Even when infused in simmering water for as long as an hour you're lucky to get even half the desirable alkaloids and in fact can re-infuse the tea the next day and get just as strong a product. Citric acid helps increasing the yield quite significantly because it breaks down some of the barriers to absorption (sorry can't find the DAMN link at the moment which is making me very angry). But the point is it's not quite so simple as eating ephedra powder and washing it down with softdrink. It works best if infused in water and citric acid for a good 15 minutes or so.

Similar things happen if one infuses yohimbe tea in water that has a good dollop of ascorbic acid.

I'm not saying the same applies with mushrooms or mushroom tea, but isn't it possible that something in lemon juice (presumably the citric acid) can increase the raw percentage of psilocin/psilocybin that actually gets into the bloodstream? We all know how 'ineffective' oral administration is for most drugs...

 

[andruejaysin]

Damn, all these years I've been hearing it was LSD and orange juice. But just for the sake of science, next time some shrooms hit town, I'm gonna drink a nice cold glass of lemonade.

 

[whiterasta]

Given the popularity of citrus cleansers and the reports of rapid onset and come down it is likely the lemon (or citric acid as it is used as a cleanser also) affects the stomach linings permeability and possibly interfering with some other mechanisms making absorbsion more like insufflation or rectal. Not completly but at least partialy. foaf's done methanolic extract disolved in instant frruit drink(citric acid+sugar) and felt as if he had IM'ed the dose it was so rapid and overwhelmingly fast, like a slow motion hit of DMT. It has made foaf preserve all his fungi powdered and mixed with 10% ascorbic/citric acid and honey just to make a dough. He gets a couple years of infrequent tripping from a quart of dough and he is a guy who eats a half oz of strong PNW semis for a ride dried alone.
He usually eats 3-5 golf balls of honey dough over a 12-16hr period and says YOWZER!
WR

 

[Ismene]

To me it sounded more like it was about giving something to someone without them knowing what they're in for which wouldn't be cool at all imho.

How would that make any sense if you were trying to establish the difference between 0.5 and 2g? 8(

 

[Red Earth]

This could actualy make perfect sense. A mate of mine told me recently, that he had a bunch of psilocybin extract, and that having it in extract form, provided for a much more intense trip, and faster come up, than having the same ammount in plant form. I know I add citric acid when ever i make mescaline brew, which makes the alkaloids come out a lot quicker. So, I'd say the citric acid could do the same to the mushroom. Bring out the psilocybin, resulting in a more intense expereince.

 

[Ismene]

I know I add citric acid when ever i make mescaline brew, which makes the alkaloids come out a lot quicker.

Still takes a good 2-5 hours of boiling too tho. Just sticking citrus acid in with your mescaline will do piss-all.

So, I'd say the citric acid could do the same to the mushroom

Easy tested, soak your mushroom powder in citric acid for a minute or two, then throw away the powder and see how high you get off drinking the citrus. My guess is not very.

 

[Red Earth]

Dood, When i add lemon or citric acid, the brew is like 100% ready within like 4 hours of boiling it. When I havn't, I'd spend 6 - 8 hours cooking it, and it still wasn't as strong as when I added the lemon/ citric acid. And I have made a LOT of mescaline brews in my life.

Love & Light :D

 

[yucatanboy]

Well, i think i'll try making tea with like 1.5 g, add a fresh lemon and a fresh lime and see what happens sometime in the next few weekends... we'll see.

 

[shroom.more]

I don't beleive it