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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

morphine vs heroin

How did you take the "H"?

Quality has a lot to do with it as well. Some cutting agents actually cause a slight rush, so could just be really weak.
 
put it on a spoon with water heated then snorted
i dont think its really weak it worked
but the high felt really dirty i dunno
its not as euphoric as i imagined
 
I was always under the impression that morphine's greater histamine release will be noticeable even when taken non-intravenously. Am I wrong?

No, you are right.It can be but is usually much less pronouned. Some people are very sensitive to that side effect.
 
In terms to what Flipout said, every drug effects us differently. Maybe he's just had a bad experience with it or with a person he knows? Idk.

Haven't tried heroin, I'd like to eventually. I think I'm just nervous.
 
Flipout… your comments seem really out of place. A non user over emphasizing the risks of said drug? You are taking every single possible IV drug stereotype and rolling it all together. Sorry to hear that you have watched a life be destroyed by H but that doesn't give you the right to preach the risks to everyone on this board. We are not here to listen to that. Everyone around here is typically aware of the risks involved. Remember, BL is a harm reduction forum not an anti-drug forum. I rail oxycontin every single day but I don't need someone telling me that I will get an occasional nose bleed.
 
damn im surprised no one mentioned this so ill quote it:
"The heroin breaks down in the brain into mostly 6-MAM with a little bit of 3-MAM, this takes a couple minutes. Then it takes an hour for most of the 6-MAM and 3-MAM to get broken down into morphine.

So most of the heroin rush and the best part of the high happens before hardly any of the dose has changed into morphine."
 
^^3rd that.

From what im reading if I actually had the chance to Iv high grade heroin im sure my vote would change to that. I cant think of any reason that I wouldnt get a rush other than I was high on crystal meth. Even with smaller doses of morphine, small enough that I wasnt getting high id still get a rush but no high after. Like I could shoot 20mg(rather than 70-100mg) of morphine and get a slight rush, but not be high after whereas I shot 200mg of heroin and didnt get a rush but I got high, how the fuck does that work?

shitty heroin.
 
This might sound like a daft question....I have never & never will IV any drug, and have never done heroin, & on just the odd occasion I've tried morphine (orally & plugged)...

But those of you who inject, wouldn't a prep of 50/50 heroin/morphine be a good idea?
 
This might sound like a daft question....I have never & never will IV any drug, and have never done heroin, & on just the odd occasion I've tried morphine (orally & plugged)...

But those of you who inject, wouldn't a prep of 50/50 heroin/morphine be a good idea?

that to me sounds like a hell of an idea. it probably would increase the rush a little. any thoughts?
 
It could be. Street Heroin makes being an opioid connoseiur rather difficult. There's an anecdote that a mix of Diamorphine, Morphine and Hydromorphone (in correct proportions) is the 'most dynamic' shot:

My discussion with Mr. Gay were based principally on two observations of
heroin addicts in the mid 1960s. In one case one group obtained pharmaceutical
grade heroin and did not like it at all. They claimed it had no effect and
didn't rush. The heroin was part of a pharmaceutical shipment from whence it
came I know not but, eventually the owners cut it with morphine and dilaudid to
get it to rush and put on the most dynamic bag anyone had seen.

In a second case during the Vietnam war the price of quinine which had been the
principal cut in heroin rose in price from $6 an ounce to $36 dollars an ounce
as supplies were being earmarked for Nam driving the price up. Apparently
major wholesalers were not getting the response they wanted from their clients
when they started cutting with manitol so they got so chemists to mix up a
batch of cut that included dibucaine for a rush and heptobarbital to moderate
the toxicity of IV dibucaine. The cost factor would be of particular
significance to wholesalers who would require 100 pound loads of cut.

Every addict I knew at the time shot heroin for the rush and pure smack just
does not rush or at least not in the manner the shooters wanted.

-Howard Lotsof (early founder/promoter of Ibogaine as treatment)

http://balder.prohosting.com/adhpage/arc_hi/heroin_p_dope.txt
 
For me a decent grade Heroin high is a lot better than morphine, not just more potent but different and more likable whether you snort it or IV it. After the rush it gives me a good feeling all over my body that I can't even describe, it also changes my personality positively, usually kind of shy or self-conscious but when I'm high really outgoing and not afraid to speak my mind or do things that I wouldn't normally do. It also makes me more active, I cannot just sit idle while high, I got to find something to do. I've experienced some of these effects on other opiates but to a much lesser extent. Alcohol gets me a kind of similar high but it impairs me and you crash after a while (plus the hangover).

The sex is also great on heroin I can go all night non stop, I admit that a couple times I've done too much heroin after being clean for a while and couldn't get it up even after a half an hour BJ but that only happened twice in over 20 years of use.

I've also tried IVing hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and it gives me a weird rush that I don't even like, in fact I hate it (and I love the heroin rush), the only time I done it again is if I'm very sick and I make sure to shoot it very slowly to avoid the rush.

As for physical dependance, heroin creates physical dependance much more quickly than other opiates (3 days) and the tolorance grows really quick, I can do a bag today after being clean for months and after a couple weeks I'll easily be doing a gram a day to get the same highl, also the withdrawals hit you real hard but they last a lot less than other opiates (the worse is over by the 3rd day), other opiates have milder withdrawals but they last much longer, personally I'd rather kick a heroin habit than any other opiate. Specially methadone which last for weeks, I tried to kick it many times and the only way I could do it was by going back into heroin for a month and then kicking the heroin habit and you need a lot of heroin when you switch from methadone but it's still much easier to kick once you've gotten the methadone out of your system. That's the one opiate I will never do again, its not only hard to kick but it totally messes you up if you take it long enough, it makes you very sensitive to sunlight, messes up your teeth and bones, makes you sweat a lot, and can ruin your sex life (it makes you come in less that 5 minutes although most times I could keep going but it's not the same and can be embarrasing). It also diminishes your desire to have sex and other things that are normally fun, I guess by the same mechanism that dimishes your desire to get high.

As for psycological dependance heroin is the worse for me, in fact is the only opiate that causes psycological addiction for me, I guess because it's the only one that gives me such a pleasant high, other opiates I only take for pain or for withdrawals so there's no psycological aspect to it, but for getting high heroin is the way to go. I can't count how many times I've kicked the heroin habit but after being clean for months if I try it one day I'm going to be craving it like crazy the next day and I usually fall for it so it only takes 1 time to get hooked up again. I know that and yet I been repeating that cycle for 20 years, everytime I do it I try to tell myself that it'll be just once but deep down I know it won't but I still do it, I don't really understand it myself!

For those of you who wrote that are considering to try heroin my advice is DON'T DO IT, you may fall in love with it and it will hunt you for the rest of your life, if I could change something in my life I would go back to the day I first tried it and don't do it. I'm not saying that it has totally destroyed my life, I'm a software engineer and live a decent life, but if I hadn't gotten into this habit I would've done a lot better, specially economically.

To answer the main question morphine may be almost as potent an analgesic as heroin but the high that you get from heroin doesn't compare.

I think those who favour morphine is because they haven't tried a decent grade heroin (which is hard to get in the US), also a lot of the heroin on the street is mostly morphine and monoacetylmorphine just because they don't "cook" (acetylize) long enough for it all to turn into heroin, most clandestine labs just guess how long it takes based on experience or heresay but don't really have a way to test when it's done.

As for the pharmaceutical grade diamorphine, if it came in liquid ampoules it hydrolizes completely into morphine after about a year, so they probably where doing morphine, also they're diluted in a solution that's about 1% heroin so it doesn't hit your brain in high concentration and hence no good rush, I once tried one that came as tablets on the ampoule and you need to add water right before shooting it, it was one of the best highs I've got, the rush wasn't that good but that's because you need to add a lot of water to disolve the tablet so you end up with a 1% solution again and that's done on purpose, they make is as an analgesic (or to treat whatever ailments), not to give you a rush. The same happens with high grade street heroin if you put too much water, the best way to get a rush is by adding just enough water to disolve the heroin and when you shoot it pull back just enough blood to know that you got the vein, then push the plunger as fast as you can, if you need a tourniquete to get the vein take it off before pushing the plunger. Also depending on which vein you shoot it it may have to travel accross your whole body before hitting the brain (getting diluted with blood along the way) so that also affects the rush, for me the best place to shoot is the big vein under the wrist to the thumb side, I believe that's the same vein that runs through the back of your elbow but I don't like shooting there ppl see some scar or track in there and they automatically assume you're shooting something, on the wrist is less obvious and you can cover it with a watch.

As for safety, I think if they were both regulated morphine would be safer, just because heroin hit's you faster so there's a greater risk of overdosing.
 
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To the fellow who posted about the 6-MAM and 3-MAM, I have a question. Do you know if 3-MAM is an active metabolite at any receptor site? I've heard somewhere that most morphine analogues (semi-synthetics) become inactive when the 3 position on the first ring has a larger substituent present, specifically one with carbons(as we know a ketone group for example, which is smaller in the case of hydromorphone is more active than a hydroxy as in the case of morphine. I know when the 6 position is modified with a small group it is still active, but the more carbons in the group will make it less active on the receptors--which receptors, I am not sure, I would assume mu and delta sub-types. Since with the glucuronide metabolites, the 3 is inactive in most if not all situations as far as I know. But my main question is whether the 3 position metabolite is active or not. Anyone else, please feel free to chime in with proven knowledge.
 
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Heroin by far versus morphine.However I prefer oxycodone because of it's "speedier" effects and all that.When on morphine IV'd it's not that great ,heroin of good quality IV'd is great normally,but injecting oxycodone is much better to me personaly although this is not about oxycodone so Heroin ..
 
damn im surprised no one mentioned this so ill quote it:
"The heroin breaks down in the brain into mostly 6-MAM with a little bit of 3-MAM, this takes a couple minutes. Then it takes an hour for most of the 6-MAM and 3-MAM to get broken down into morphine.

So most of the heroin rush and the best part of the high happens before hardly any of the dose has changed into morphine."

Umm, no! Where did u get this info from??

Heroin is converted to morphine almost right away after crossing the BBB.

The two drugs, if you can consider them two separate drugs, are essentially one and the same. Diamorphine is basically a faster acting form of morphine -- enhanced morphine, if you will.
 
i have never shot anything but in my experience the H high was completetly different than morphine even when the h was only snorted not shot. Both tar and powder #4 i believe. now of course the tar would be different because of the presence of many different chemicals. not just H. But for more morphine, even at high doses, was one of the more boring opiates. AT least orally.
 
LMFAO. Are you kidding? Is this what the uneducated noobs think about all heroin users?

Overdriven-agree!! A lot of H users are much cleaner and more disciplined than 'normal' people that drink on weekends and get hammered that way, vomit in the streets and dont have to feel guilty about it. Most H users that dont end up as junkies know they are playing with fire and need to be disciplined in their actions. Also, a lot of H user dont drink and engage in alcohol-related obscenities. And it also doesnt fuck you up as much as hallucinogens.Its really odd, but I find weed one of the worst drugs at all, as LSD, because even occasional use can make you less capable of blending in at work and be sociable. It just makes people paranoid and schizophrenic, as opposed to opiates.
 
i believe heroin is metabolized into morphine....that is why they test for morphine in UAs and not heroin...i would think it follows that it is metabolized into morphine before it crosses the BBB. could be wrong. please correct me if this is the case.
 
i believe heroin is metabolized into morphine....that is why they test for morphine in UAs and not heroin...i would think it follows that it is metabolized into morphine before it crosses the BBB. could be wrong. please correct me if this is the case.

It is converted to morphine almost immediately after crossing the BBB. Heroin/Morphine are one drug - heroin is a quicker acting form of morphine.

Heroin itself has a half-life of 5-10 minutes and it is a weak agonist of the mu receptor. Heroin is simply a vessel for the systemic delivery of morphine.

Same drug.
 
Heroin is the better drug, by far.

I used to inject morphine for more than 9 months. Was addicted to morphine heavily. Then I changed my DOC (drug of choice just because nothing else was that cheap like that waxy morphine sulfphate pentahydrate granulate that was inside of those capsules) to oxycodone (oxycontin, not in the US, but in Europe). It's still my DOC (oxy). In the beginning of my IV "carreer", heroin was my DOC.

To me, heroin is better than morphine, as it doesn't produce that much of a pins&needles effect. I loved that effect back in the morphine days, but now I totally hate it and nearly died of it three times. Yes, you can die of pins and needles. Believe it or not. Your body wants to show you that the injected morphine is not what it wants and that you should ingest it much more slowly. A morphine injection produces a shock to the body, whereas heroin does not, or does it much much less.

Oxycodone, on the other hand, doesn't produce any pins and needles anyway. It produces a great rush when you keep the tourniquet on until you've pushed all your few millilitres of oxy solution into your veins, then remove it. It will intensify your rush (whatever drug it may be) by the factor (at least) 3. Don't do that with uppers (stimulants). It's extremely dangerous to do that with stimulants. And you have to be very tolerant to opioids (=you have to be heavily addicted to them) and know your doses, otherwise don't do that. Only do it when you know how much of your DOC is in the powder/liquid/tablet/pill/capsule, otherwise inject slowly, you could overdose.

Oxycodone is in my opinion the better heroin in terms of rush, although heroin has more power to it when it rushes. Experienced IVers will know what I mean. Heroin has much more "punch" to it, whereas oxycodone lacks this power a little bit, but produces a much more higher quality rush/high overall, that lasts only a few hours.


People who say that heroin is the most addictive (that means: producing an opioid tolerance) opioid out there. It surely isn't. Fentanyl, Sufentanil, Remifentanil, Alfentanil and all the other Fentanyl-derivates, are much more stronger and more addictive. My brother got Sufentanil in high doses for 10 days (he was in coma), after that he was heavily addicted to opioids. They got him on clonidine and weaned off the opioid and the clonidine very very slowly, but he did get severe withdrawal symptoms and that was the first time my brother understood me well. He just started crying, held my hand and said: "Dude... I can understand you now. I know how hard you suffer when you withdraw. And I know why you take that stuff. It gives me energy, it gives me life. I totally understand you. I hope that you don't ever have to withdraw again. I love you, XXX"
I'm serious. He couldn't understand me until he had his terrible accident and was on opiates himself. The rest of my family still thinks that I'm ill, that my opiate consumption is a desease, not the treatment of my pain and my psychological deseases. But my brother who was in coma and got on opiates in the hospital, he understands me 100%.
 
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