Human Interest More teenagers dying from fentanyl. ‘It has a hold on me, and I don’t know why’

[Nurse Kat]

I just read this, and was gonna post it up, but you beat me to it!

This makes me scared to be as permissive with my kids as per drugs as I would normally be…I mean, I think experimentation is fine, and it’s a stage most of us go through (although some of us get stuck there.) but now, with all this, I feel like I should crack down and tell them not to do it, or at least not to do it without letting me know so I can be nearby, and have narcan on them at all times

I don’t for the life of me understand the fentanyl thing tho…why would you want to kill off your customers?! Seems shortsighted

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I'm a Nurse at a Psych, Alcohol and Drug Detox Center. I also have 23 years clean. I know of 3 lives lost by experimentation just these past 4 months. One guy was given a line of coke for his 21st birthday. It was cut with Fentanyl and he died, one line....
A 16 year old girl went to a party, took a pill (M30) and died. I've lost many patients this year that went back out and died. Recently lost one that was found in an alley 3 days later. I live in a Border city. They're putting Fentanyl in coke, meth and heroin. Just got a new intake, he's 19 years old. He's been given everything for vomiting and my last ditch effort is a shot in the arm. If he throws up again I have to send him to the ER for IV fluids so he doesn't get so dehydrated his organs start shutting down. A normal detox is 5-7 days. With Fentanyl it's 7-10 days maybe more. The synthetic drugs stay in the body for a long time. I was like you xtcgrrrl, I know my daughter smoked pot and tried drinking etc. But I educated her about Fentanyl.
Dealers don't care about their clients dying, because there are new ones waiting in line......

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I'm a Nurse at a Psych, Alcohol and Drug Detox Center. I also have 23 years clean. I know of 3 lives lost by experimentation just these past 4 months. One guy was given a line of coke for his 21st birthday. It was cut with Fentanyl and he died, one line....
A 16 year old girl went to a party, took a pill (M30) and died. I've lost many patients this year that went back out and died. Recently lost one that was found in an alley 3 days later. I live in a Border city. They're putting Fentanyl in coke, meth and heroin. Just got a new intake, he's 19 years old. He's been given everything for vomiting and my last ditch effort is a shot in the arm. If he throws up again I have to send him to the ER for IV fluids so he doesn't get so dehydrated his organs start shutting down. A normal detox is 5-7 days. With Fentanyl it's 7-10 days maybe more. The synthetic drugs stay in the body for a long time. I was like you xtcgrrrl, I know my daughter smoked pot and tried drinking etc. But I educated her about Fentanyl.
Dealers don't care about their clients dying, because there are new ones waiting in line......

This is so scary! I know that one of my teenage daughters is curious about drugs (the other one has absolutely zero interest; she saw my relationship with her father disintegrating in large part because of my drug use. She won’t even use a Tylenol when she has a headache!) so this is making me really anxious. I guess I’ll have to have a conversation about fentanyl with her…both of them, to be safe…

 

[Nas47]

Thanks God for my daughter.She is 18 and knows everything about drugs because of me.She don't smoke cigarettes,nor have any interest about weed.Once we tried nitrous together and she wasn't impressed at all.Studying&working in the same time.She hasn't free time even for relationships with boys.She is a better version even of her mum,who is succesful writer.I am proud of her.....and all around her schoolmates start with sex&drugs at eleven-twelve years old......too wise for her age

 

[qwertygina]

This has always baffled me. Even if a dealer has no ethics whatsoever, surely they at least have a little business sense.

I've always said the same thing . I have come to the conclusion (wether it's true I dunno) that they are operating on such a massive scale that they don't really care if a few die. They're one goal is to get the masses addicted. Then in turn keeping them coming back .
Like how big pharma budgets in law suits as part of operating costs and maintain funds to pay out all the class action suits.
It's all just part of business. I'm sure they don't look at it in any sort of way other than profits.

 

[jasperkent]

I've always said the same thing . I have come to the conclusion (wether it's true I dunno) that they are operating on such a massive scale that they don't really care if a few die. They're one goal is to get the masses addicted. Then in turn keeping them coming back .
Like how big pharma budgets in law suits as part of operating costs and maintain funds to pay out all the class action suits.
It's all just part of business. I'm sure they don't look at it in any sort of way other than profits.

All of that is probably true.

 

[Fertile]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I'm a Nurse at a Psych, Alcohol and Drug Detox Center. I also have 23 years clean. I know of 3 lives lost by experimentation just these past 4 months. One guy was given a line of coke for his 21st birthday. It was cut with Fentanyl and he died, one line....
A 16 year old girl went to a party, took a pill (M30) and died. I've lost many patients this year that went back out and died. Recently lost one that was found in an alley 3 days later. I live in a Border city. They're putting Fentanyl in coke, meth and heroin. Just got a new intake, he's 19 years old. He's been given everything for vomiting and my last ditch effort is a shot in the arm. If he throws up again I have to send him to the ER for IV fluids so he doesn't get so dehydrated his organs start shutting down. A normal detox is 5-7 days. With Fentanyl it's 7-10 days maybe more. The synthetic drugs stay in the body for a long time. I was like you xtcgrrrl, I know my daughter smoked pot and tried drinking etc. But I educated her about Fentanyl.
Dealers don't care about their clients dying, because there are new ones waiting in line......

TOOK an M30 or do you mean snorted an M30?

I ask because fentanyl is virtually inactive orally. But for too long parent have been left to think their child just swallowed a pill. While possible, it's unlikely. While people hide the truth, HR agencies don't know the real dangers.

Why fentanyl remains the predominant opioid is cost and control... but their are similarly potent opioids that are (importantly) almost as potent orally as snorted - so it kind of levels things up. It's as cheap as F and currently legal under US law. But would such a drug save lives? If a pill needs 15mg of fentanyl to be orally active but is x50 more potent if snortes then it's a problem. But if oral bioavailability is 62%, snorting won't even double that,

I have a legal design - but will it just make things worse? I guess the DEA if warned could ensure they had sellers in place,

 

[Delmonte421]

No, fentanyl epidemic was well under way before the western allies abandoned Afghanistan. In Europe the purity of Afghan heroin is getting BETTER, not worse. Maybe the DEA did a great job, sussed out the pinch-points to prevent Afghan heroin reaching the US? Maybe that means the dealers are offering pure H to draw customers in?

But the point of using Markush structures is that it would be a federal crime to import them. As I understand it, being technically legal, currently the worst that can happen to an importer, if caught, is seizure... and possibly tax evasion charges.

UK uses Markush and although small quantities are smuggled, expect 20 years if you are caught with over 1Kg (about). Now in the UK we even have the Novel Psychoactive Substance laws. Possession isn't a crime but supply, intent, importation, production and so on all are. BUT the maximum sentence is 5 years.

I'm not about to risk even 2.5 years of my life (50% discount on all sentences of 5 years or less) but sooner or later someone is going to work out that if they only break the NPS law, they are in less peril. So kind of surprised novel opioids, stimulants and so on haven't turned up.

I always thought about the math of how much my salary would have to be to be in jail, right? Like if you can earn 20 million but you gotta do 5 years in jail, is it worth it?

 

[Fertile]

Unless you have used a proxy and an off-shore account, chances are that the money will be found before you get out. If it's not, the moment you seem to have more $$¥₽€ than you earn, they KNOW you have access to funds.

There are ways around this but law enforcement have ALSO considered that many people would be prepared to spend 5 years in chokey if the stolen money can be spent after release. In the UK they will add years to a sentence if you don't give back the money and then they will go looking.

I believe the money from the Northern Bank Heist (€30 million) was used to pay the wages of ALL the workers who were building a shopping centre in Romania so the money would pass through many hands before reaching a bank and being detected. I presume Romanian law was also amenable to this methodology - I don't think you swipe THAT much without having prior plans on how to get rid of it. Since it was the IRA, I presume organized criminals were involved in the exit strategy.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

This is ultimately sad for me. And angers me to no end. "Put it in the box" they say... wtf? How could I disassociate with this? I men c'mon, doc! ( ? )
Got a call from an associate couple days ago warning me to watch out MFs dropping like flies around here (in our area). Also had a dude ask offer me fent test (for free) that he got from dancesafe.... My answer was that I greatly appreciate it I do not mix in those circles anymore (little do they know that I do but only on BL lol ) and that I wouldnt be able to use the tests and as far as dropping like a fly; Haha Been there and was the one who told him about the dangers locally on bags.
I asked a senior nurse if there was a lot of ODs in charlroi that came into hospital when I was laid up and she told me that she use to be with EMS in charleroi and wont even drive trough the borough to this day. Will go out of her way to avoid the area.
Only person I know out here onda streets is the friend that employed CPR on me when I dropped. He has huge tolerance but fuck to lose him, we know his mom and kids from way back.
I get this is about the younger generation.
Fuckin death may be weak but its also damn sure indiscriminate.
Been a worry for me and does stress me out.
"Put it in the box" when I believe I should be trying to keep MFs out the box?
I do still carry the naltrexone nasal kit always but wtf good has this on all the BS that is out here?
Still dont think this is chemical warfare...?
Gotta take this outta this thread not fitting.
One love, family.
Peace

 

[Fertile]

It's an example of Grisham's Law.

For a while I couldn't work out why fentanyl is still the de facto opioid made in Mexico. OK it's quite potent, but their are scaffolds that are as potent so what gives?

Then I realised that now the precursors are controlled in China, their will be an associated industry of chemists who make the immediate precursor (ANPP) or analogue thereof.

I say that because their is a PBS broadcast in which they show 2 guys making fentanyl in a bucket in the middle of a field full of cows. It was a simple as adding a powder (ANPP) and a liquid (propanoic anhydride or maybe acetyl propanoyl anhydride). They poured the resulting black goo into plastic pubs where it sets.

So obviously someone has to clean that up, but the smelly, dangerous (the way they work i.e. adding anhydride quickly) part was telescoped down to 'cooking'. The cleaning is likely to need a lot of solvents but now Mexican cartels have worked out solvent management.

So, in short, this whole industry has grown up around the actual fentanyl producers so that they can stick to the method they know. And that is the reason. The profit margin is so high and to the producers the synthesis is so simple that they stick to it.

 

[RedRum OG]

The heroin culture up until early 00’s was segregated to only the most urban of areas, and mainly the northeast and west coast. Like I said, upon the early 00’s it was spreading everywhere.


In regards to Mexico VS Columbia in climate, they are different with Columbia having many more rainy days per year as well as more precipitation. Both of which poppy plants aren’t a fan of for proper alkaloid production.

Mexico is also 72% larger by land mass, and it still can only supply overall a smaller proportion of the US compared to the area supposed “Columbian” Heroin had covered at the time.

And while they do have the routes and infrastructure that would mean they’d more or less have to give up cocaine production which didn’t happen.

So how does a country with seemingly poorer grow conditions, already up to their eyeballs in cocaine orders, and smaller land mass suddenly supply the US with such large quantities of pure heroin overnight?

-GC

I can actually help a little here. Coca and poppy grow in completely different climates, from soil type and richness, humidity, sun needs, and oxygen/co2 exchange. They do not compete for land. Coca land would be awful for poppy growing, and vice versa. No competition there

Also, as far as leg work and transport, those guys are idle for 75% of the time. Mostly spent waiting around and drinking. Not to mention, narco culture is bigger than ever in Mexico, dudes would do it for free for the power, then you start offering a years worth of farm wages for a couple round trips? That an endless source of work. No shortage

The deserts of Mexico are perfect for poppy. I also happened to do a lot of Mexican tar back in the day. I see no reason for my old cartel boys to lie about what country it came from, but who knows.

I'm loathe to propose the DEA has been partially honest, but...

 

[G_Chem]

I can actually help a little here. Coca and poppy grow in completely different climates, from soil type and richness, humidity, sun needs, and oxygen/co2 exchange. They do not compete for land. Coca land would be awful for poppy growing, and vice versa. No competition there

Also, as far as leg work and transport, those guys are idle for 75% of the time. Mostly spent waiting around and drinking. Not to mention, narco culture is bigger than ever in Mexico, dudes would do it for free for the power, then you start offering a years worth of farm wages for a couple round trips? That an endless source of work. No shortage

The deserts of Mexico are perfect for poppy. I also happened to do a lot of Mexican tar back in the day. I see no reason for my old cartel boys to lie about what country it came from, but who knows.

I'm loathe to propose the DEA has been partially honest, but...

You are talking of Mexico which I don’t deny produces a fair amount of heroin. My argument was comparing Columbia to Mexico. How does Columbia produce more/higher purity heroin than Mexico when the climate isn’t right, the country is smaller, and they have plenty of cocaine to sell?

-GC

 

[Kaden_Nite]

You are talking of Mexico which I don’t deny produces a fair amount of heroin. My argument was comparing Columbia to Mexico. How does Columbia produce more/higher purity heroin than Mexico when the climate isn’t right, the country is smaller, and they have plenty of cocaine to sell?

-GC

Poppies grow in Colombia. In the mountains. Fields of them. Have done from for quite some time. Much higher alkaloid content than coca, which had been targeted and largely destroyed by the DEA (despite it being native to the country). This was long before Bush 2 and the 20 year war against an intangible emotion.

The end product is far more expensive and much more potent by weight (it can be cut to fuck and people still buy it).

Just for clarity: you're saying East Coast Powder was actually Afghani?

 

[The Shadow Self]

Well, it's going to get far worse before it gets better. That I believe 100%
It's simply far too easy and profitable to move metric tons of drugs into America, and when you consider that Cartels have made such inroads in terms of trafficking routes and have so many people moving product into the country that the cartels are very well established within the continental US and product is moving at lightning pace from production to distribution to end points. The system is in place, the product is available, and the consumers are demanding it one way or the other. It's just far too easy to manufacture, and no one is doing anything of note to stop it. Meanwhile, it's like "The Opium Wars 2.0."

As for America's "century of humiliation?" It's already begun. Wait until you see what this country looks like 10, 20, 50 or 100 years from now....
It will be unrecognizable when compared to what it once was, warts and all.

China’s 100 Years of Humiliation Left an Everlasting Footprint

Xi Jinping’s dream of the “great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation” by 2049 is an endeavor to regain what China lost in the 19th century.

www.dailysignal.com

 

[G_Chem]

Poppies grow in Colombia. In the mountains. Fields of them. Have done from for quite some time. Much higher alkaloid content than coca, which had been targeted and largely destroyed by the DEA (despite it being native to the country). This was long before Bush 2 and the 20 year war against an intangible emotion.

The end product is far more expensive and much more potent by weight (it can be cut to fuck and people still buy it).

Just for clarity: you're saying East Coast Powder was actually Afghani?

That’s what I am theorizing, correct. I still stand by what I say too. I keep hearing people saying they do, I’ve read all the DEA literature on this too. I don’t buy it.

Colombia is smaller and much worse a growing area for poppies than Mexico, yet Mexico can only cover the S/SW with their product… For the sheer quantity of pure heroin that was flooding the streets, the timing of it, none of it adds up.

Yes Heroin was around before 9/11 but it wasn’t until after that it flooded to every nook and cranny. I grew up in a small rural farm town, it was everywhere.

What does add up is our involvement in Afghanistan correlating perfectly with that major increase, how the taliban shut down poppy fields and we reopened them, and most of all how our ceasing of involvement over there correlates scarily well with fentanyl increasing in our area. Why protect poppy fields anymore when you can make it yourself?

I’ve seen a lot of pictures of our soldiers protecting poppy fields, I’ve yet to see a picture of any of these massive poppy operations in Columbia. Again if they were supplying such large areas, we’d see and hear more about it.

-GC

 

[Fertile]

Well the UK has got almost 100% of it's heroin from Afghanistan since the 1970s and in the last 5 years the cost per Kg has virtually halved while the potency has significantly increased. In fact, some of it's so pure that I don't THINK it's been cut (87% diamorphine) - such is the competition. Since H has always been available, their isn't a larger market to tap (except for getting chippers dependent) so their is competition for market share.

Partly it shows how permeable UK boarders are (only The Netherlands sees stronger H) and how organised the criminals are because their are a lot of users so a lot of money.

Since it's generally shipped hidden in items within shipping containers, I can well see H smuggled into the UK being simple to get to the US (since a container from the UK is or at least was unlikely to be randomly searched.

I'm just glad to see that fentanyl is rarely seen and then it's medical dose units. In fact, it was rejected by UK users so if their IS H, UK users will always choose H over fentanyl. It's just that in the US the Mexicans control the entire market in many areas.

 

[trogere]

Yeah - the US voted to spend $41 billion on 'the fentanyl disaster'. A lot was that the government decided oxycodone was overprescribed and just cut people off cold. If you have been on a lot of OxyContin for years - you CANNOT simply stop. So that's where a LOT of the 'abusers' come from. But kids will experiment... although ask yourself what is wrong for people to need some escape. That would cause MORE to solve, so they will waste $41 billion.

BTW etonitazene & brorphine analogues are ready to take over if pinch-points make them cheaper to make than fentanyl. Then you have classes most people don't even know of. But how many precursors can you watch? It's simply going to become impossible to use that route.

Educations in key. HONEST education about the dangers but also why people use drugs. In the US the 'Just Say No' actually caused people to rebel and use went up. In the UK 'Heroin Kills' campaign did the same. Kids know when they are being lied to.

I lived in The Netherlands and they talk about drugs a lot in schools. Kids can ask questions and get honest unbiased information. It seems they have made a society that sees drugs as what they are - neither good not bad. Inanimate items are not moral or immoral. PEOPLE are, but not things.

I think another part of the solution would be to make iboga/ibogaine legal and accessible for those in need.

 

[G_Chem]

Well the UK has got almost 100% of it's heroin from Afghanistan since the 1970s and in the last 5 years the cost per Kg has virtually halved while the potency has significantly increased. In fact, some of it's so pure that I don't THINK it's been cut (87% diamorphine) - such is the competition. Since H has always been available, their isn't a larger market to tap (except for getting chippers dependent) so their is competition for market share.

Partly it shows how permeable UK boarders are (only The Netherlands sees stronger H) and how organised the criminals are because their are a lot of users so a lot of money.

Since it's generally shipped hidden in items within shipping containers, I can well see H smuggled into the UK being simple to get to the US (since a container from the UK is or at least was unlikely to be randomly searched.

I'm just glad to see that fentanyl is rarely seen and then it's medical dose units. In fact, it was rejected by UK users so if their IS H, UK users will always choose H over fentanyl. It's just that in the US the Mexicans control the entire market in many areas.

Ahh… interesting. In the last 5yrs the fentanyl epidemic has skyrocketed, US has withdrawn from Afghanistan and now UK heroin has halved in price??

To me that halving of prices is their way of trying to retain what customer base they have left. When a good portion of your customers are lost to fentanyl you’ve gotta do anything you can to keep who you have. Especially when fentanyl is dirt cheap.

One more thing that tells me I’m probably right.

-GC

 

[Nas47]

All those things with fent.....for me all is about profit...kids are dying.....ok will come another...that's how thinkin' may be the cartels.who cares?Look situation here-massive heroine epidemic early 90 with fall of regime.20 years later-all is different.H is gone,old addicts-gone..The vacuumebwas filled with more atractive,more lucrative drugs-meth&amphetamines.Easy to produce on situ.Big demand.Youngsters well remember old H days....most of them got a relative/friends died on it.H is no more interesting for younger here.Drug of passive-suicidal persons,who read too many books....or some of sort....So speeeed.....let it bleeeed.....that's it here.Situation,people,vibe-all is absolutely different now,than before 20 years......and that in U.S. man.....wow. That's a real madness indeed.The innocent must pay the price.Sorry,that i'm talkin' indirectly,but i am sure u will understand what i mean...a lot of suffer for a lot of people

 

[RedRum OG]

You are talking of Mexico which I don’t deny produces a fair amount of heroin. My argument was comparing Columbia to Mexico. How does Columbia produce more/higher purity heroin than Mexico when the climate isn’t right, the country is smaller, and they have plenty of cocaine to sell?

-GC

Ah i see I misread. The part about giving up Coca land confused me. I agree it's unlikely that a signficsnt amount of poppy can be grown in Columbia compared to Mexico or Afghanistan. They grow some, from what I hear 4th hand, but yeah I agree that it's unlikely my dope came from anywhere but Mexico