Human Interest More teenagers dying from fentanyl. ‘It has a hold on me, and I don’t know why’

[thegreenhand]

More teenagers dying from fentanyl. ‘It has a hold on me, and I don’t know why’ ​

Summer Lin
LA Times
12 Nov 2022

Excerpt:

The summer before 14-year-old Alexander Neville would have entered high school, he sat both of his parents down at the kitchen table in their Aliso Viejo home and told them he’d been taking Oxycontin pills he bought on Snapchat.

He had self-medicated with pot in the past, but this was different.

“It has a hold on me, and I don’t know why,” he told them in 2020.

Drug use among teens ages 14 to 18 remained relatively stable between 2010 and 2020, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. About 30.2% of 10th-graders in 2010 said they had used illicit drugs in the past year, according to a Journal of the American Medical Assn. research letter published in April 2022. Ten years later, that number was nearly identical, at 30.4%.

Yet more young people are dying from fentanyl than ever before. Teen fentanyl deaths more than doubled, from 253 in 2019 to 680 in 2020, the report showed. Last year, the number jumped to 884. And fentanyl was the cause of 77.14% of drug deaths among teenagers last year.

 

[Fertile]

The US should just introduce the use of Markush structures - that way ALL fentanyl derivatives could be banned with a single, 1 page bit of legislation.
They need to do the same for the etonitazene & Brorphine scaffolds as well. That way it's federal law and it's IMPOSSIBE to get around. The pharmacore of all those scaffolds is well understood and in many articles.

Many nations use it to control synthetic CB1 ligands thus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_scheduling_of_synthetic_cannabinoids

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I just read this, and was gonna post it up, but you beat me to it!

This makes me scared to be as permissive with my kids as per drugs as I would normally be…I mean, I think experimentation is fine, and it’s a stage most of us go through (although some of us get stuck there.) but now, with all this, I feel like I should crack down and tell them not to do it, or at least not to do it without letting me know so I can be nearby, and have narcan on them at all times

I don’t for the life of me understand the fentanyl thing tho…why would you want to kill off your customers?! Seems shortsighted

 

[Fertile]

Fentanyl used to be hugely profitable. Now it sells for $4150/Kg. I presume it's the 'crack of opiates' because WDs kick in faster. I knew a chemist who was shooting every 20 minutes. Another ended in jail. Fentanyl is just bad all around.

That the use of Markush structures surprises me. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but at least fentanyl isn't funding The Taliban ifyouknowwhatImean...

 

[jasperkent]

I don’t for the life of me understand the fentanyl thing tho…why would you want to kill off your customers?! Seems shortsighted

This has always baffled me. Even if a dealer has no ethics whatsoever, surely they at least have a little business sense.

 

[thegreenhand]

The US should just introduce the use of Markush structures - that way ALL fentanyl derivatives could be banned with a single, 1 page bit of legislation.
They need to do the same for the etonitazene & Brorphine scaffolds as well. That way it's federal law and it's IMPOSSIBE to get around. The pharmacore of all those scaffolds is well understood and in many articles.

Many nations use it to control synthetic CB1 ligands thus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_scheduling_of_synthetic_cannabinoids

but the fentanyl and analogues are not being produced in the US.. you'd need china and mexico (at a minimum) to enforce that law as well. not likely.

 

[G_Chem]

Fentanyl used to be hugely profitable. Now it sells for $4150/Kg. I presume it's the 'crack of opiates' because WDs kick in faster. I knew a chemist who was shooting every 20 minutes. Another ended in jail. Fentanyl is just bad all around.

That the use of Markush structures surprises me. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but at least fentanyl isn't funding The Taliban ifyouknowwhatImean...

It’s amazing how well the fentanyl epidemic correlated with US withdrawal from Afghanistan..

-GC

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Ironically overall drug use is way down in teens since the 90s, but deaths are up because of fentanyl

Sad

The worst part is all these rap songs talking about perc 30s... because kids idolize that and think they're actually getting oxycontin.

Ironically or maybe unironically, nobody raps about fentanyl... and easy to understand why they don't.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I don’t for the life of me understand the fentanyl thing tho…why would you want to kill off your customers?! Seems shortsighted

From the cartel's perspective it's meaningless, for every 1 that dies you probably get 2 new ones the next day. Probably like how Netflix maybe factors in cancelled subscriptions from dissatisfied customers into their growth projections.

But a lot of random fentanyl overdoses here seem to be due to pure incompetence from a low level dealer. Someone who can't do math or cuts their drugs in their bathroom while high themselves.

Like this one guy a few months ago, was sentenced to life for lacing fake adderall pills with so much fent that 12 people died... young kids, too. Who expects an adderall pill would kill you? Just awful.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It’s amazing how well the fentanyl epidemic correlated with US withdrawal from Afghanistan..

-GC

If you don't safeguard your crops then you can't have control over yours products. You're going to reap just what you sow.

 

[Fertile]

It’s amazing how well the fentanyl epidemic correlated with US withdrawal from Afghanistan..

-GC

No, fentanyl epidemic was well under way before the western allies abandoned Afghanistan. In Europe the purity of Afghan heroin is getting BETTER, not worse. Maybe the DEA did a great job, sussed out the pinch-points to prevent Afghan heroin reaching the US? Maybe that means the dealers are offering pure H to draw customers in?

But the point of using Markush structures is that it would be a federal crime to import them. As I understand it, being technically legal, currently the worst that can happen to an importer, if caught, is seizure... and possibly tax evasion charges.

UK uses Markush and although small quantities are smuggled, expect 20 years if you are caught with over 1Kg (about). Now in the UK we even have the Novel Psychoactive Substance laws. Possession isn't a crime but supply, intent, importation, production and so on all are. BUT the maximum sentence is 5 years.

I'm not about to risk even 2.5 years of my life (50% discount on all sentences of 5 years or less) but sooner or later someone is going to work out that if they only break the NPS law, they are in less peril. So kind of surprised novel opioids, stimulants and so on haven't turned up.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

It’s amazing how well the fentanyl epidemic correlated with US withdrawal from Afghanistan..

-GC

Is Afghani heroin still around in the US? I'd be surprised if it made up any significant part of the market in the states. I was under the impression that since 9/11 (possibly earlier), Colombian and Mexican product made up the vast majority of North America's heroin.

I know Afghani gear still makes up the bulk of what is used in Europe/UK, which makes sense to me given it can travel by land into neighbouring countries.

 

[G_Chem]

No, fentanyl epidemic was well under way before the western allies abandoned Afghanistan. In Europe the purity of Afghan heroin is getting BETTER, not worse. Maybe the DEA did a great job, sussed out the pinch-points to prevent Afghan heroin reaching the US? Maybe that means the dealers are offering pure H to draw customers in?

But the point of using Markush structures is that it would be a federal crime to import them. As I understand it, being technically legal, currently the worst that can happen to an importer, if caught, is seizure... and possibly tax evasion charges.

UK uses Markush and although small quantities are smuggled, expect 20 years if you are caught with over 1Kg (about). Now in the UK we even have the Novel Psychoactive Substance laws. Possession isn't a crime but supply, intent, importation, production and so on all are. BUT the maximum sentence is 5 years.

I'm not about to risk even 2.5 years of my life (50% discount on all sentences of 5 years or less) but sooner or later someone is going to work out that if they only break the NPS law, they are in less peril. So kind of surprised novel opioids, stimulants and so on haven't turned up.

Yea it was well under way cuz no one jumps ship until they know everything is in order to do so. As someone that lives in the US I watched as disinterest in Afghanistan and subsequent withdrawal matched perfectly the increase in fentanyl overtaking heroin on the streets.

Is Afghani heroin still around in the US? I'd be surprised if it made up any significant part of the market in the states. I was under the impression that since 9/11 (possibly earlier), Colombian and Mexican product made up the vast majority of North America's heroin.

I know Afghani gear still makes up the bulk of what is used in Europe/UK, which makes sense to me given it can travel by land into neighbouring countries.

This is one where I believe the DEA have been lying to the US public. The facts are this. Heroin was basically nonexistent as a more common drug in the US until after 9/11. Almost immediately after that heroin started to flood even the sleepiest of small towns at an unprecedented level.

Next let’s look at Columbia. They supply much of the world (along with a few other small nations) much of the cocaine. We are expected to believe they not only do that but now overnight have the ability to supply half the US with near pure heroin. Where did the infrastructure arise to do that?

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, farts underwater like a duck, it’s gotta be a duck.. What makes more sense is all those poppy fields that were decimated became operational again and either soldiers or higher up were producing very pure product to be pushed on US streets.

Plus Columbia doesn’t seem like the best place to grow the amount of poppy needed to supply the amounts we saw.

I could be wrong but I’ve seen very little beyond the guvments word that all that heroin was coming from lil old boogeyman Columbia.

-GC

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Heroin was basically nonexistent as a more common drug in the US until after 9/11.

I am not American, haven't been there since I was a kid, so I can only give an onlooker's perspective of course. I would agree that it's become more mainstream, but what major US city didn't have a heroin culture, leading back to, at least, the 1970s?

Next let’s look at Columbia. They supply much of the world (along with a few other small nations) much of the cocaine. We are expected to believe they not only do that but now overnight have the ability to supply half the US with near pure heroin. Where did the infrastructure arise to do that?

They already had the infrastructure; smuggling routes, a corrupt government and a poor country acclimated to drug production and reliant on it's economy. All they needed was the poppy seeds.

I wouldn't have thought Mexico had the climate for opium production either, but nobody's denying they can supply half the US with smack.

In the book Trainspotting, written circa 1990 I believe, the 2 kilogram deal they do at the end was high grade Colombian heroin. A fictional story I know, but with cultural artifacts drawn from Irvine Welsh's real story as a Scottish heroin addict in the 1980s. If tell of quality Colombian smack made it to Edinburgh that long ago, maybe there's something more to it than the fiction written by the DEA.

What makes more sense is all those poppy fields that were decimated became operational again and either soldiers or higher up were producing very pure product to be pushed on US streets.

I do know that the US troops weren't doing anything to stop the growing of poppies, the extraction of opium or production of heroin. If they found it on someone, being smuggled at their checkpoints, it would merely be confiscated. They were "there fighting a war on terror, not drugs", according to some American politician on an Australian 60 Minutes piece about Afghani heroin I watched yesterday.


I'm not sure if you'll be able to watch that in your country, but it actually seems crazy how proper heroin was so demonized then, given what has since transpired in the opioid world (namely fentanyl).


One last thing: looking at the impurities of 4-ANPP in current US batches, I'm thinking Mexico are now producing their own fentanyl in sub-par labs, rather than importing from China. I would assume the precursors still come from China, though I could be wrong.. about everything.

Just my thoughts.

 

[G_Chem]

I am not American, haven't been there since I was a kid, so I can only give an onlooker's perspective of course. I would agree that it's become more mainstream, but what major US city didn't have a heroin culture, leading back to, at least, the 1970s?

They already had the infrastructure; smuggling routes, a corrupt government and a poor country acclimated to drug production and reliant on it's economy. All they needed was the poppy seeds.

I wouldn't have thought Mexico had the climate for opium production either, but nobody's denying they can supply half the US with smack.

In the book Trainspotting, written circa 1990 I believe, the 2 kilogram deal they do at the end was high grade Colombian heroin. A fictional story I know, but with cultural artifacts drawn from Irvine Welsh's real story as a Scottish heroin addict in the 1980s. If tell of quality Colombian smack made it to Edinburgh that long ago, maybe there's something more to it than the fiction written by the DEA.

I do know that the US troops weren't doing anything to stop the growing of poppies, the extraction of opium or production of heroin. If they found it on someone, being smuggled at their checkpoints, it would merely be confiscated. They were "there fighting a war on terror, not drugs", according to some American politician on an Australian 60 Minutes piece about Afghani heroin I watched yesterday.


I'm not sure if you'll be able to watch that in your country, but it actually seems crazy how proper heroin was so demonized then, given what has since transpired in the opioid world (namely fentanyl).


One last thing: looking at the impurities of 4-ANPP in current US batches, I'm thinking Mexico are now producing their own fentanyl in sub-par labs, rather than importing from China. I would assume the precursors still come from China, though I could be wrong.. about everything.

Just my thoughts.

The heroin culture up until early 00’s was segregated to only the most urban of areas, and mainly the northeast and west coast. Like I said, upon the early 00’s it was spreading everywhere.


In regards to Mexico VS Columbia in climate, they are different with Columbia having many more rainy days per year as well as more precipitation. Both of which poppy plants aren’t a fan of for proper alkaloid production.

Mexico is also 72% larger by land mass, and it still can only supply overall a smaller proportion of the US compared to the area supposed “Columbian” Heroin had covered at the time.

And while they do have the routes and infrastructure that would mean they’d more or less have to give up cocaine production which didn’t happen.

So how does a country with seemingly poorer grow conditions, already up to their eyeballs in cocaine orders, and smaller land mass suddenly supply the US with such large quantities of pure heroin overnight?

-GC

 

[Fertile]

Yes all of those loophole fentanyl drugs are made in China but the Chinese government turns a blind eye as long as the product is for EXPORT. All of the chemicals used to make fentanyl are common industrial chemicals used in the tens to hundreds of thousands of tonnes per annum realm. You can find multiple, industry orientated sites devoted to showing statistics on this important class of industrial production.

But UK and EU generally is seeing the quality of H increase from an average of 50% a few years ago to 70-80% pure today. I have contacts in several HR agencies and the picture seems to be the same everywhere. But as others have said - DID the US ever get much of it's H from Afghanistan? If so, their is no shortage of Afghan H production, of that I am sure.

I suspect fentanyl has become popular because gangs can control production right through to distribution. It's duration is so short that people can end up needing a dose every 20 minutes (I knew a couple) whereas with H. 99% of people get by on 2-3 doses a day. It has the ability to take ALL of someone's cash in the shortest time. It's cost will also grow the market.

At the other end of the spectrum, I do know that white 'Number 4' diamorphine hydrochloride finds a market. The very rich will pay $300-$400/gram for the stuff. Only seen it once, but people mix it with very pure cocaine for a mixture dubbed 'Chaos'. THAT market will still be getting their H... although I suspect anyone with genuine OxyC could demand a huge price. A decade ago real pills cost $1/mg. I don't think fake 30s sell for $30, do they?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...w-tech-multimillion-dollar-fentanyl-operation

Nice PBS journalism. How fentanyl is being produced and shipped.

 

[Fertile]

BTW the 'faint smell of popcorn' Tells me which analogue is being made in this case.

 

[kiely]

This is just horrible. And not your posts. What is going on. What a horrible epidemic !!!

 

[Nas47]

U are huge country with biggest drug markets.I am almost sure,that u can find H,even from Byrma in U.S.....but guess predominantly is tar from Mexico,often mixed with some fent analogues.Columbia,apart from Mexico is the only country in continent with some large scale poppy growing..have not any idea what kind of stuff is columbian H

 

[Fertile]

Yeah - the US voted to spend $41 billion on 'the fentanyl disaster'. A lot was that the government decided oxycodone was overprescribed and just cut people off cold. If you have been on a lot of OxyContin for years - you CANNOT simply stop. So that's where a LOT of the 'abusers' come from. But kids will experiment... although ask yourself what is wrong for people to need some escape. That would cause MORE to solve, so they will waste $41 billion.

BTW etonitazene & brorphine analogues are ready to take over if pinch-points make them cheaper to make than fentanyl. Then you have classes most people don't even know of. But how many precursors can you watch? It's simply going to become impossible to use that route.

Educations in key. HONEST education about the dangers but also why people use drugs. In the US the 'Just Say No' actually caused people to rebel and use went up. In the UK 'Heroin Kills' campaign did the same. Kids know when they are being lied to.

I lived in The Netherlands and they talk about drugs a lot in schools. Kids can ask questions and get honest unbiased information. It seems they have made a society that sees drugs as what they are - neither good not bad. Inanimate items are not moral or immoral. PEOPLE are, but not things.