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Moclobemide for easing the MDMA blues.

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TheLastAxon

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Moclobemide is an MAO A inhibitor and yes I am well aware of it's high danger during MDMA exposure, so hear me out.

Quite typically a comedown for me sets in around 60 hours after my initial dose of MDMA. More commonly referred to as the "Tuesday blues" as I would usually dose on a Saturday evening like many others.

I propose that taking a dose, say 300mg (inhibits 80% of MAO-A and 30% of MAO-B) at least 36 hours after my last dose of mdma, following by a further 300mg 24 hours later, repeating until I recover. This in theory may combat any associated depression by significantly replenishing 5-ht stores over the natural rate, while providing some short term relief via the higher availability of DA and SE.

I emphasize this 36 hours to give me a safety margin, as obviously dosing on MAO-A inhibitor with mdma still present in my system would put me a great risk in developing serotonin syndrome. Even 24 hours may be safe to allow my system to clear itself of MDMA.

Feedback and thoughts are very welcome!
 
In my opinion it won't work.. solely because when taken on its own I would not call it remotely pleasurable. It's like taking an SRI after a roll. I have found that it makes me feel far worse (even though it protects against neurotoxicity).

Moclobemide together with MDMA however... my favourite combination. But don't try it or you will most likely die.
 
permastoned said:
In my opinion it won't work.. solely because when taken on its own I would not call it remotely pleasurable. It's like taking an SRI after a roll. I have found that it makes me feel far worse (even though it protects against neurotoxicity).

Moclobemide together with MDMA however... my favourite combination. But don't try it or you will most likely die.
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That combo is heinously dangerous. I am not after any "pleasurable" effects from a course of Moclobemide. Merely just an attempt to decrease the heavy comedown effects, even if it worked a little it would be welcomed if considered safe.
 
I have taken copious amounts of 5-htp for days following a roll with little effect to how I feel come Tuesday.

How I could see Moclobemide being superior in effect over an SRI is that it also boosts dopamine and norepinephrine which could be the significant factor in easing ones mood. Hence it's pronounced anti-anxiety effect.
 
Dopamine is broken down equally by mao A and B. So I'd say it would have a significant impact on the dopamine stores considering it also inhibits mao-b by ~30% at 300mg/day.
 
While that's true, the dopamine we're concerned about is in the brain, and MAO-B concentrations are highest in the brain, and MAO-A in the gut.
 
At least there would still be a reasonable quantity of MAO-A within the dopamine neurons right? Any idea of the ratio of mao-a to mao-b?
 
As best I can tell, there are only minor levels of MAO-A in the brain. Not enough to count on.
 
^ exactly.

Even if there is a large amount of MAO A in the brain it is irrelevant. In my experience the brain always has safety mechanisms to prevent disruptions from homeostasis. The brain always makes sure it can keep the levels of neurotransmitters normal to the best it can. MAO B on its own is easily enough to metabolise all the dopamine, not to mention all the other enzymes that can do it, such as COMT and the other enzymes that I can't remember right now.

I have taken proper MAOIs that inhibit MAO B and i find them to be quite pleasurable.

I do not find moclobemide pleasurable on its own in the least, and if u try and push the dose too high u will start to feel like absolute shit because of the high NE levels, and also the 5ht levels making ur gut race like a cheetah in heat

But hey, please try it. I will be happy if it works for you, because that mean one person's life is getting better and I'm all for happiness :)
 
permastoned said:
^ exactly.

Even if there is a large amount of MAO A in the brain it is irrelevant. In my experience the brain always has safety mechanisms to prevent disruptions from homeostasis. The brain always makes sure it can keep the levels of neurotransmitters normal to the best it can. MAO B on its own is easily enough to metabolise all the dopamine, not to mention all the other enzymes that can do it, such as COMT and the other enzymes that I can't remember right now.
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Good point. Well, as I don't suffer from abnormal amounts of depression/anxiety in normal situations, I was only interested in counteracting the depleted serotonin hence my focus on the MAO-A anyhow. I am willing to experiment either way, I just need to make sure that it is safe enough to do so.

Maybe it is necessary as you say to also have MAO-B inhibition for the sake of mood enhancement. So Phenelzine could be a suitable option, but I just don't like the idea of it being irreversible as I may only need a few days exposure to an MAOI for my brain to return to normal. As I understand, phenelzine has a cumulative irreversibility, so it may take over a week before it reachs full inhibition. Therefore, taking for 3-4 days may help due to pratial inhibition, but the onset of effects may be too delayed to couteract the imbalance in SE/DA function after MDMA exposure.

Thoughts on this?
 
taking 300-450mg of moclobemide 24hrs after rolling and continuing for the week has proven to be a very effective treatment for midweek blues
i have done countless trials of alternating comedowns with moclobemide / no-moclobemide...all supporting positive effects of taking it!
i also find benefit in taking it during & after a big run on the shards.
 
I do not understand the reasoning of doctoring yourself with another drug to combat the efecys of another drug. Just let your body bounce back and recover on its own. Get a lot of good nutrition and rest and allow your body the time it requires to heal from the damage the MDMA caused. Self doctoring, from what I have observed throughout my life, usually leads to bad things.
 
filenet said:
taking 300-450mg of moclobemide 24hrs after rolling and continuing for the week has proven to be a very effective treatment for midweek blues
i have done countless trials of alternating comedowns with moclobemide / no-moclobemide...all supporting positive effects of taking it!
i also find benefit in taking it during & after a big run on the shards.
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Thats good news! Have you been careful with waiting at least 24hours after your dose of MDMA? I think anything less than that one would running in dangerous territory. Have you had any side effects from taking Moclobemide after mdma?
 
emperorofusa said:
I do not understand the reasoning of doctoring yourself with another drug to combat the efecys of another drug. Just let your body bounce back and recover on its own. Get a lot of good nutrition and rest and allow your body the time it requires to heal from the damage the MDMA caused. Self doctoring, from what I have observed throughout my life, usually leads to bad things.
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It makes sense if that drug does not further create any problems, instead counteracts the after effects of the first drug. Yes, i already take a heavy regime of antioxidants/5htp/healthy high protein food/sleep without any huge results. Yes your body is capable of bouncing back, but for me it takes a fair while, an MAO inhibitor if taken carefully may speed up this natural process.
 
TheLastAxon said:
Thats good news! Have you been careful with waiting at least 24hours after your dose of MDMA? I think anything less than that one would running in dangerous territory. Have you had any side effects from taking Moclobemide after mdma?
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i dont watch the clock put it that way and never had any bad side effects! The only negative interaction I have ever had with moclobemide was with an OTC anti-histamine - nothing serious just sedation, slight color hallucinations etc

i've never combined MDMA & moclobemide - I feel no need as MDMA is strong enough for me anyway and I will ensure a 2 day washout from moclobemide before taking MDMA!

However moclobemide & other stimulants (amp/methamp/4mar/coke etc) are a very nice combination for me (i emphasis "ME")

emperorofusa - go preach somewhere else!
 
permastoned said:
^ filenet ,what do you like about moclob & other stims? I figured that the noradrenaline component would be unbearable, so I never wanted to try it.
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it reduces the amount of stims required to get to that therapeutic level & for certain stims it increases the duration
 
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