Mixing mushrooms with Oxycodone (feat. The Great Shroom Spirit Debate)

[kandytime]

Psilocybe mushrooms are actually a very complex mixture of different idolic compounds -- some of which we consider 'drugs' and some we don't.

I don't even want to get into the discussion of how this category we label as 'drugs' is a fictitious entity -- two compounds could have very little in common chemically and pharmacologically and still be grouped together under this 'drug' label.

Bottom line, though, is that all this talk of semantics is unimportant. Mushrooms aren't 'drugs', 'drug' is just a word -- an abstraction -- that our mind develops and projects onto the actual thing. What mushrooms actually are, or anything is for that matter, is different than the label that is applied to it. The actual things are much more nebulous.

this is ridiculous, rather than what you say being a fact; it is simply what you see to be as the truth. like i said, mushrooms are good for philosophy. because saying that everything is "labeled" or "grouped" is common sense, but you try and make it some epic realization. humans label all things with a name to represent form, whether it be grouped or not. the magic mushroom induces a major shift in reality due to the presence of a foreign chemical, and thus can rightfully be portrayed and "labeled" as a drug.

no matter how you see shrooms, you can't tell me they aren't for the majority of people, just another drug.

 

[silentscience]

waaaah!

 

[Delsyd]

i didnt read any of the responses in this thread but ill just say it'll probably be a pretty good combo.
Not as deep as mushrooms would be on their own, but definately an enjoyable experience.

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

I sort of skimmed through the philosophical debate, and figured I would instead try to answer the OP's question.

I've smoked Opium on Mushrooms before and it was an awesome enhancement to the Psilocybin mind-space. Although you're talking about a Pharmaceutical Opiate and not actual Opium. There are still some similarities.

I don't remember Opium taking away from the experience at all, and if anything, it enhanced it; allowing me to relax more and accept the insights that the Mushroom was giving me. If you do decide to take the OC, then you will have to take much more Mushrooms. Maybe like 4 grams with that dose of OC you mentioned or less OC to match the Psilocybin dosage of 2 grams.

 

[Shambles]

i didnt read any of the responses in this thread but ill just say it'll probably be a pretty good combo.
Not as deep as mushrooms would be on their own, but definately an enjoyable experience.

I tend to agree

Also, I did read/skim the "Spiritual Teachers" debate and don't have the stomach to dive into it so I'll just go with an answer to the original question... I don't find opiates interefere with the psychedelic state anything like as much as sedatives do. In fact they often make a very pleasing addition, in my experience. It's bound to take the edge off the clarity (?!?) of any psyche but I haven't noticed it to any great extent. Combo sounds fine to me. Nothing wrong with nodding in school sometimes

 

[Roger&Me]

like i said, mushrooms are good for philosophy.

I'll take your word for it, as I'm a student of mathematics/science not philosophy -- and I don't particularly care for tripping on mushrooms. :D

What I was saying wasn't philosophy anyways, it was a (very) brief analysis of a fallacy present in reductionist thinking.

This thread reminds me of how much arguing about stuff sucks.

We're not arguing, we're debating. Its fun to throw ideas around, it helps you understand your own beliefs better and helps you understand the beliefs of others -- friendly debate is good stuff, if you ask me.

 

[Spooky_D]

Well, my question is answered, thanks.

 

[Roger&Me]

^Haha and we threw in a lively debate for no extra charge. :D

 

[swilow]

Awesome thread :D

 

[Blurpinkle]

There's no reason that these two viewpoints are mutually exclusive. Mycelial networks are extremely large organisms and span vast distances; who are we to say that they don't have awareness or intelligence? Perhaps this presence that some call the "spirit" of the mushrooms is firmly rooted in physical reality. IMO its ignorant to assume that the scientific reductionist viewpoint necessitates that one ignore more mystical points of view. The physical reality that we live in is a spiritual reality; reductionism merely describes physical happenings within this realm; saying "tryptamines work by affecting the brain's serotonin system" tells us essentially nothing about the depth and profundity of the experience elicited by taking mushrooms. Just knowing its mechanism of action doesn't mean you understand the substance and its place in the reality we live in.

Best answer. 10 points.


Respect the mushroom. Call it or don't call it spirit, but it's something alive.

 

[Shambles]

Mycelial networks are extremely large organisms and span vast distances

The single largest living thing on Earth is not a Giant Redwood or Blue Whale, it's a mushroom (and associated mycelial fruits and tendrils) in a field somewhere in America. True story

 

[dread]

I can't remember the name of that mushroom, but it's true

 

[Shambles]

Armillaria ostoyae (Freddy, to its friends) and it resides in Oregon

wiki linki

 

[Solipsis]

My opinion on the escalated subject is that mushrooms are not teachers in a paranormal way. Autonomous entities do not inhabit them, tryptamine compounds inhabit them. But in my experience there are some simpler tryptamines that make a connection with deep aspects of your identity. They awaken them all and have them communicate with each other. You actually teach yourself because a part of consciousness can be accessed that is normally latent unless you have much experience expanding your consciousness naturally or in other ways.
But the result is all the same: it feels like serious sapience is demanding your respect wherever it comes from. The same happens with DMT: if you fool yourself and suppress the notion that the experience serves a higher psychological purpose than having fun or hallucinations and take it... a part of you inside of you that knows damn well that it's just not right (subconscious) confronts your everyday awake consciousness and there is a conflict. It's not anything externally spiritual. One could call it a persons own spirit, if they want to use that term.
But such psychological phenomena are easily mistaken for externalized phenomena and when formulated badly other people show much resistance to supernatural sounding stuff that in actuality is not that supernatural.

I think you all don't mean different things. You just call it by different names.
It's a sad thing this happens so often. We invent illusory differences where there needn't be.

What I can't figure out though is why natural entheogens often have these seemingly spiritual properties while chemicals often do not. Synthetic psilocin and synthetic DMT are really confusing regarding this since they retain their 'spiritual' properties.

This thread reminds me of how much arguing about stuff sucks. just answer the kid's GODDAMN QUESTION and leave the fucking spirits debate to another thread PLEASE! Do you guys even remember what you started arguing about?

If you ask me, the original question has been answered well: many people find the combination a bad idea.
SOME of the people find it a bad idea on grounds of mushrooms being teachers that demand respect and the further debate is about whether these grounds are valid or not, which has produced an active and interesting discussion. Apart from the fact that it is relevant albeit pretty remotely, this discussing doesn't seem to get in the way of the original question. Sometimes hijacking threads is harmful, sometimes something blooms in places
where it wasn't the plan from the start but thats the way it goes sometimes.
The only thing that seems to be missing still is a first hand description of the mushroom+opioid combination. Anyone?

 

[swilow]

I couldn't personally say anything definitive on the subject of plant spirits; they may very well exist in some form; however, as we don't really know what form our own spirit/soul exists as, I think we're delving into very hidden waters. However, in either case- we know that psilocybin mushrooms contain a tryptamine regarded as the active component. We also know that our brains create and release tryptamines on a regular basis, and the most commonly know one is serotonin. Given its seemingly abundant role in human mood/perception/perspective activity, as well as such actions as regards to blood flow through the Body and preocessing of external stimulii (the same stimulli we consider to be 'the world'), I guess that it could be said that the tryptamine within the mushroom-body also regualtes such things for the mushroom, in a relative sense. And we, upon absorbing that tryptamine, do 'feel' what a mushroom maybe be feeling.

The thing I don't understand re: this Debate, is why people insist that the mushroom-spirit/molecule would be spiteful or angry or judgmental, and, by default then, 'better' then us. I've seen a lot of talk about respecting the mushroom as if they resemble the christian god, who DEMANDS respect. I believe thats misguided, or at least, misplaced. In my own experience with mushrooms and tryptamines in general, I haven't experienced anything that hasn't been benevolent in intent. Whether these things be aspects of our mind or actual beings contianed within these molecules- is not important to me, as what is presented and perceived as real, IS real. Though, if the force we enounter is autonomous and seperate to ourselves, I believe it to be benevolent; rather then being wise and all-knowing, it seems to invest moreso in creating paths to wisdom and knowing for ourselves. Hence, I would refer to any possible mushroom spirit as a Teacher, not a god or Great power.

I personally believe that- plants have sensience of a form, just as we have sensience of a form; however, there is nothing but my own belief to support this. That said, my own belief is what creates the world- for me.

It can't be denied that a molecule is what creates the potential for psychedelia in ourselves; but it can't also be discounted that this mind-manifestation isn't enacted by forces outside ourself. Each viewpoint is true IMO.

In conclusion, I don't think it matters to a mushroom whether you consume an opiate before you trip; what does matter is how it effects you. Which, depending on your views, could be positive and pleasurable, or negative. I would not take a strong opiate if I desired a clear picture when tripping, but physically I don't feel there is any danger, and spiritually, the only entity whose existence you can confirm (yourself) will be as you will.

Raar.

 

[Immunity]

Damn, I'm glad that other discussion materialized there, good reading. So much has been covered, else I'd take a crack at it too.

I haven't tried this combo yet, despite my fondness for both mushrooms and opiates. I've rationalized so far that I would probably just feel distracted and entirely euphoric. I really hear the 'no pain, no gain," argument.

Also, money constrictions tend to lean me toward spreading out my drug use, so I'm even less inclined to try it.

My recommendation? Meh. If you're that curious, I guess... My understanding of/relationship with mushrooms tells me not to bother. Though that's just me.

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah I wouldn't go so far as to say do what other people tell you... but I recall asking about tolerance when dosing again too soon, getting responses about expecting disappointment but me going ahead anyway.
Then I was pretty disappointed and I realized people were right and I had already believed that. But I didn't want to believe that.
Some things you have to see for yourself to really get it.

 

[Shambles]

The only thing that seems to be missing still is a first hand description of the mushroom+opioid combination. Anyone?

Not combined mushrooms with Oxy but I have combined them with other opi's and find it an enjoyable combo personally. More suited to shits 'n' giggles than deep soulsearching, for sure.

Will get back to y'all on the whole "Teacher" stuff after some further consideration...

 

[Propyl Power]

Wow, this has evolved into a really great discussion. Thanks bluelight!

In retrospect, "Spirit" is a very poor word choice, being freighted by the same kinds of baggage as "God" or "soul", etc. " Perhaps something like "unified intelligence" might be a little easier to work with.

I don't feel at all that approaching a psychedelic organism as an intelligent entity rather than a molecular process is opting for a more "comfortable" interpretation; quite the opposite. I am much more intimidated and perplexed by a potential nonhuman intelligence than I am by a mere molecule, and when I take mushrooms I expect to be removed very, very far out of my comfort zone.

I am perfectly aware that "In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true either is true or becomes true" (John Lilly). I am not naive regarding metaprogramming, belief structure dynamics, etc. I feel that this encounter with an apparent intelligence, the Other, is what shamanism is all about. Taking it further, the Self & the Other are mutually explicated, and discovering the Other in oneself and oneself in the Other is the dynamism that powers my own peculiar psychedelic engine.

One more thing: in my experience, this intelligence is something that must be invoked. It does not automatically present itself. Perhaps this invocation is simply a further entanglement in webs of belief... or perhaps it is the key to a deeper integration with a universal mind... or both

All I can advise is to experiment, approach it from different angles, don't cling too desperately to certain reductionist belief systems, see what works for you... and draw your own conclusions %)

 

[dread]

It's a wide wide world out there

However, I'd rather be deluded than cynical any day

I find life much more interesting that way